Chinese players share wisdom

[drewisfat]

The Cuirassier Rush performs similarly to the Horse Archer Rush, especially in tactical details. I have some questions about how the Cuirassier Rush handles early AI declarations of war (the 'gift cities' tactic doesn’t always work, as the AI attacking you might not be alone, and anyone could throw a wrench in your plans—like tossing a chicken foot into the ring). Defending against declarations after Turn 70 is relatively easy, but how do you recover your economy? The Cuirassier and Cannon Rushes heavily rely on tech advantages, and early expansion prioritizes Villages, leaving you with fewer cities by Turn 70. Being dragged into a war by the AI contradicts this strategy. How do you solve this? Is it very difficult?

We’ve noticed that warmonger neighbors will research Archery immediately after Pottery. If the AI starts causing trouble and we lack Copper or Horses, we’ll go straight for Masonry to build Walls for defense. Before Turn 70, we focus on rapid expansion—tech isn’t a huge issue, as we can use Great Scientists to bulb Compass as a fallback. Once we have an army, we rush straight for Construction or Horseback Riding to counterattack

I think you meant to say "when we notice wamonger neighbors, we'll research archery after pottery.". I tech archery before pottery any time I have a "psycho" neighbor like Alexander or Shaka. I assume they can attack t50 if they're close by. In general I value early safety more than faster cottages compared to most on here. No point in investing in cottages if they get pillaged or you lose the game in the meantime. Pre-construction defensive wars are affordable if you're prepared, just a few axes or a handful of archers on a hill or behind a wall is enough. It only really hurts economically if your trade routes are blocked off, in which case I'd be quick to make peace with a gift city. While this isn't a liberalism game because I'm Toku, you can check out the last pangaea I played where I prospered despite an early dogpile from Montezuma and Shaka. https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/deity-toku.416441/page-11

Diplo game is very important to us and people here have translated the code to demystify the mechanics and assemble guides. I usually have https://forums.civfanatics.com/attachments/attitude-declarations-png.630850/ on hand to know who can be bribed into war, and I'd be remiss to not mention Kait's KYE which explains the behavior weightings of each AI in depth: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/civ-illustrated-1-know-your-enemy.478563/
One the most important things is to understand Land_Target status (borders 8 or more land tiles). That greatly affects their likelihood of declaring war, as well as capitulating and vassalizing. https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/land-target-and-manipulating-the-ai.561148/
I assume that will be of huge interest to you if it's new knowledge, as you mentioned both bribes and vassalization as being things that can go wrong in even a construction attack. Fully understanding that can minimize the risk of finding yourself at war with multiple AIs.

The important thing is to avoid attacks with siege, so we need safety with the AI before they get construction. That's usually enough time to get safe relations (pleased or friendly) with most or all AIs. Sometimes it's as simple as adopt the majority religion and gift cities to those in a minority religion. Other times priority is given to closer more dangerous AIs first, and distant AIs can just be monitoried with a scout, because we'd get plenty of warning if they're walking towards us. In a worst case scenario with two dangerous neighbors in different religions not currently plotting, bribing them into war against each other can both guarantee your safety and slow them down so they're easier to kill when you get cuirs. It just so happens that the most dangerous AIs are also the easiest to bribe.
A bunch of small tips, some of which you probably already know:
- Gift cities will give an additional +1.5 liberation bonus if the spot is closer to their capital than any other capital.
- They won't accept cities if there's a hostile unit within 2 tiles.
- Open Borders or resource trades with someone who's a "worst enemy" gives a chance each turn that the other AI will demand you cancel them. This can only happen if the trades can be canceled, so you can cancel OB and resource trades after 10 turns to remove that risk and restart them again when they'll talk to you.
- Only resources you have multiple copies of can be demanded, so I always want to make sure that option is available for AIs at cautious or worse as that's a truce and a permanent +1.
- You can beg a truce for small amounts of gold (or even a tech) with someone at pleased for 10 turns of safety. Most effective when you're caught off guard or when it takes the AI a long time to reach you with their army, as not only do you delay for 10 turns but the travel time as well.
- Worst enemy status doesn't directly affect declaration of war (DoW) probability.
- Gandhi's demands can be ignored without penalty.
- AI can only start plotting if it can build at least two offensive units in its capital. So if you open dialogue with an AI and they're bragging about archers, they can't attack yet.
- AGG AI (aggressive AI setting option turned on) means the AI will care tremendously about city safety (hostile units within 2 tiles) which can be abused to make peace even in a war you're losing. I usually don't play with this setting, but almost all HoF games do because it makes it easy to steal workers and then ceasefire.

** Edit: I realize I didn't reply to your first post, because I don't really understand. BUG didn't change the turn limit to 500, that's just normal base game BTS. Is this different in the Chinese version? Do you still play to 2050 AD? I'm confused.
I'm not the one to talk to about the HoF's scoring system. To the extent I care about records, I only care about finish dates.

 

[bigbamboo]

think you meant to say "when we notice wamonger neighbors, we'll research archery after pottery.". I tech archery before pottery any time I have a "psycho" neighbor like Alexander or Shaka. I assume they can attack t50 if they're close by. In general I value early safety more than faster cottages compared to most on here. No point in investing in cottages if they get pillaged or you lose the game in the meantime. Pre-construction defensive wars are affordable if you're prepared, just a few axes or a handful of archers on a hill or behind a wall is enough. It only really hurts economically if your trade routes are blocked off, in which case I'd be quick to make peace with a gift city. While this isn't a liberalism game because I'm Toku, you can check out the last pangaea I played where I prospered despite an early dogpile from Montezuma and Shaka. https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/deity-toku.416441/page-11

Diplo game is very important to us and people here have translated the code to demystify the mechanics and assemble guides. I usually have https://forums.civfanatics.com/attachments/attitude-declarations-png.630850/ on hand to know who can be bribed into war, and I'd be remiss to not mention Kait's KYE which explains the behavior weightings of each AI in depth: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/civ-illustrated-1-know-your-enemy.478563/
One the most important things is to understand Land_Target status (borders 8 or more land tiles). That greatly affects their likelihood of declaring war, as well as capitulating and vassalizing. https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/land-target-and-manipulating-the-ai.561148/
I assume that will be of huge interest to you if it's new knowledge, as you mentioned both bribes and vassalization as being things that can go wrong in even a construction attack. Fully understanding that can minimize the risk of finding yourself at war with multiple AIs.

While our community has researched most of these aspects, there are still some issues we overlooked, which are quite interesting. Thank you for the index

The important thing is to avoid attacks with siege, so we need safety with the AI before they get construction. That's usually enough time to get safe relations (pleased or friendly) with most or all AIs. Sometimes it's as simple as adopt the majority religion and gift cities to those in a minority religion. Other times priority is given to closer more dangerous AIs first, and distant AIs can just be monitoried with a scout, because we'd get plenty of warning if they're walking towards us. In a worst case scenario with two dangerous neighbors in different religions not currently plotting, bribing them into war against each other can both guarantee your safety and slow them down so they're easier to kill when you get cuirs. It just so happens that the most dangerous AIs are also the easiest to bribe.
A bunch of small tips, some of which you probably already know:
- Gift cities will give an additional +1.5 liberation bonus if the spot is closer to their capital than any other capital.
- They won't accept cities if there's a hostile unit within 2 tiles.
- Open Borders or resource trades with someone who's a "worst enemy" gives a chance each turn that the other AI will demand you cancel them. This can only happen if the trades can be canceled, so you can cancel OB and resource trades after 10 turns to remove that risk and restart them again when they'll talk to you.
- Only resources you have multiple copies of can be demanded, so I always want to make sure that option is available for AIs at cautious or worse as that's a truce and a permanent +1.
- You can beg a truce for small amounts of gold (or even a tech) with someone at pleased for 10 turns of safety. Most effective when you're caught off guard or when it takes the AI a long time to reach you with their army, as not only do you delay for 10 turns but the travel time as well.
- Worst enemy status doesn't directly affect declaration of war (DoW) probability.
- Gandhi's demands can be ignored without penalty.
- AI can only start plotting if it can build at least two offensive units in its capital. So if you open dialogue with an AI and they're bragging about archers, they can't attack yet.
- AGG AI (aggressive AI setting option turned on) means the AI will care tremendously about city safety (hostile units within 2 tiles) which can be abused to make peace even in a war you're losing. I usually don't play with this setting, but almost all HoF games do because it makes it easy to steal workers and then ceasefire.

Our primary concern revolves around pre-T70 DoW scenarios, where defensive options are inherently limited due to constrained early-game mechanics. The critical inquiry is: After surviving the initial arms race, how do we maintain technological dominance to execute a successful Cuirassier rush? Or does this situation warrant abandoning the current session? While isolated cases may offer insights, our focus remains on developing universally applicable strategic frameworks

Edit: I realize I didn't reply to your first post, because I don't really understand. BUG didn't change the turn limit to 500, that's just normal base game BTS. Is this different in the Chinese version? Do you still play to 2050 AD? I'm confused.
I'm not the one to talk to about the HoF's scoring system. To the extent I care about records, I only care about finish dates.

Correction: I misspoke earlier—the base game indeed has a 500-turn limit. While few players progress beyond 2050 AD, the current scoring formula's turn-weight dilution in BTOM tournaments has created imbalance. Specifically, prioritizing population growth over turn efficiency now yields disproportionately higher scores, which has spiraled out of control. This distortion stems from map modifications by scenario creators: enhanced food yields and expanded cityable land tiles, while the original population-cap scoring metrics remain unchanged. For instance, on 124-tile maps, players exploit Corporation mechanics to mass-produce 35-population cities (a process requiring dozens of unnecessary extra turns and hours) to max out scoring thresholds while circumventing turn-based penalties. Once I'm more established here, I'll formally petition the tournament organizers with proposed adjustments. Appreciate your insights

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

冰山之号角
nanoprince2015
风叶1900
龙殇vancouver
习惯种田
sossos2017
竹竹子啊啊

other guys im not sure if they record vedios .most of them playing just in civ4 Tencet qq group for fun .only match need live broadcast so they may recorded in bilibili

Even saved games is good enough. There's enough graphics that understanding written Chinese is not required.

With diplomacy, I assume Chinese players know the basics. But this one is both important and not basic:

One the most important things is to understand Land_Target status (borders 8 or more land tiles). That greatly affects their likelihood of declaring war, as well as capitulating and vassalizing. https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/land-target-and-manipulating-the-ai.561148/

Easy to miss because it can be simplified to "do not create cities too close". But there are many more implications.

Also, I want to ask, what is the goal? Winning with the highest probability? Or winning as soon as possible? The two goals are not the same.

 

[bigbamboo]

Even saved games is good enough. There's enough graphics that understanding written Chinese is not required.

With diplomacy, I assume Chinese players know the basics. But this one is both important and not basic:


Easy to miss because it can be simplified to "do not create cities too close". But there are many more implications.

Also, I want to ask, what is the goal? Winning with the highest probability? Or winning as soon as possible? The two goals are not the same.

In our community's tournaments, the difficulty level is typically set to Deity

Overview of Competition Rules​

1. Seasonal League​

1. Core Mechanic: Rankings are based on completion rates across all maps in the season.
2. Advantages:
   1. Encourages players to tackle diverse maps, showcasing well-rounded skills.
   2. Reduces the impact of RNG from individual maps on overall standings.

2. Single-Event Cups​

1. Core Mechanic: Victory must be achieved in the fewest turns possible, with Cultural and Diplomatic Victories disabled.
2. Advantages:
   
   
3. Highlights players' decision-making efficiency and precise tactical execution (e.g., Catapult Rush, Horse Archer Rush).
4. Eliminates victory methods reliant on RNG (e.g., religious spread) or slow-paced strategies, ensuring a purer competitive environment.

---

Analysis of Competitive Design​

1. Player Skill Requirements​

• Seasonal League: Tests map adaptability and overall strategic consistency.
  • Example: Players must flexibly switch between fast-paced rushes on Pangaea and late-game explosive strategies on isolated continents.
• Single-Event Cups: Focuses on precision micromanagement and ruthless resource optimization.
  • Example: Executing a 110-turn Catapult Rush demands exact per-turn population/production allocation.

2. Community Culture Implications​

• Banning Cultural/Diplomatic Victories: Reflects the community’s preference for hardcore strategic play, likely because:
  • Cultural Victories rely on random Great Person generation.
  • Diplomatic Victories are vulnerable to AI relationship fluctuations.
  • Forces players to engage in direct military/tech competition, minimizing "cheese" tactics

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

Cultural Victories rely on random Great Person generation.

I am interested in this opinion. Why is there more randomness in Great Artist generation? As compared to other great persons for other victory conditions?

The city that generates great artists is usually 100%, right?

 

[bigbamboo]

I am interested in this opinion. Why is there more randomness in Great Artist generation? As compared to other great persons for other victory conditions?

The city that generates great artists is usually 100%, right?

Perhaps it was a translation error; it should refer to the randomness of religion spreading. When we compete with single victory conditions like Cultural or Space victories, we typically use maps generated from the Equal_Islands template

 

[Gumbolt]

You can gift a city and use the culture spy spread trick to reach 50k culture. 50-60+ spies can be stationary in city for 5T before you gift it to the AI.You must have 1 culture on the centre tile before you gift it. You need a few more spies than you think as some will fail. Great artists mainly for the city that is lagging and if you run a pure GA farm it will always be a G artist. I forget the exact spy points required like 10-12k. Been many years since I did this.

Edit I think it's about 15k espionage for one city if you pretty much start from scratch.

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

4. We’ll attack just before unlocking Feudalism, vassalize the target, and gift them some cities to keep them tech-competitive, allowing us to split research and trade techs

I asked a question about semi-isolation. You and one neighbour only.

I tried this strategy. I can only manage to capitulate the neighbour if I attack with catapults.

They will never capitulate when I attack with axeman, horse archers, swordsman, crossbows. They can have one city with one injured military unit left, they will give me all their technologies and gold, but will not capitulate.

 

[jorissimo]

They will never capitulate when I attack with axeman, horse archers, swordsman, crossbows. They can have one city with one injured military unit left, they will give me all their technologies and gold, but will not capitulate.

But if you're going to attack before catapults, you might as well take them out, right? Depending on the quality of the land, you can get away with it on semi-iso.

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

It's hard to answer your question without digressing into a discussion on semi-isolation.

I limit the discussion to how to capitulate the neighbour, for whatever reason.

 

[pmarc]

According to: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/trying-to-understand-the-mechanics-of-capitulation.364486/, it says you need 40 war success to capitulate.

If you attack early, the AI doesn't have enough units and cities for you to destroy / capture, then it might be hard to reach 40. Also when you attack with siege you tend to have a very good ratio of enemy casualties vs. your casualties, which helps with war success.

 

[CGQ]

To avoid clattering following thread with off-topic discussion:

Post in thread 'Shadow Game - Is this just a map *I* can not beat?'

Feb 22, 2025

@Build2Much​

Hello OP, I’m new to this forum but a seasoned Civilization IV player from China. Back home, we usually have a real-time discussion group dedicated to Civ 4. We mostly focus on Deity Pangaea map types, with some occasional play on Fractured Continents, and we always play in no-SL mode. At Deity difficulty, we’ve developed a set of reliable strategies to improve win rates on random maps. If time permits, I’d love to join the discussion in this thread about this map type. Looking forward to some great conversations—happy gaming!​

• bigbamboo

• 

What's "no-sl?"

EDIT: Clicked the thread link and got the answer lol. It's no-reload from save