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Chislev Problems and Assessments

Discussion in 'Rise from Erebus Modmod' started by Iaian, Jul 15, 2010.

  1. Iaian

    Iaian Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2010
    Messages:
    8
    Hi all, very long time lurker here. Been a FfH fan for quite some time, well a couple years actually and have been enamoured with the project since I came across it. I've since settled on RifE as it's still FfH but with more ingenious concepts added, I especially like the Command System Promotion series. Brilliant stuff.

    Anyways on to the post. I usually start my games as a random Civ, since I have more fun figuring out how to play them properly as their theme inspires. Lanun are easy, go for Octopus Overlords, focus on Wind and Water Mana, focus on trade, build up an amphibious army and don't look back. Khazad are the ultimate builders and hoarders of gold. In general all civs have a little bit of an initial setup to help nudge you in the right direction... except the Chislev.

    Figuring them out is causing me a headache that I hope someone can help me understand this very problematic civ.

    Starting with the Unique Buildings, it quickly becomes clear that this is a war-focused civ. Their buildings provide additional Military Production, extra boosts in XP, and low War Weariness. Then comes the unique units, two of which are commanders, an early Melee unit and their National Hero generally lends support to physical combat. So they prefer fighting with arms over magic with elite ready-trained troops, and use magic to support this. All well and good here.

    So the problem comes when trying to pick the Civics, Religion, Guilds, and Mana focus to exemplify this. Their unique Civic offers a sizable reduction in Maintenance if they're running a large Empire that has a lot of little cities. However the penalty for Income and Research makes me think that those are not a high priority for them. So then the play style to overcome that would be to focus on Food and Production, whereby the Production simply bypasses those penalties, and you get cities whose sole purpose is to convert Production into Research or Income. The confusing part is, if they are Maintenance reducers for running a large decentralized empire, and war-mongers to boot... why does their palace not start with a Law mana? This would tilt them towards the Religion of Order which seems a perfect fit for their natural playing style. Even more importantly, the Maintenance reduction from being in Order is so massive that their unique Civic becomes pointless. I would like to use and lock myself into their unique Civic as it would provide and interesting play style for them but the inclination to go to Order to enhance their war-mongering as their primary trait is too great to overlook.

    Their unique Government Civic is just awkward and none of the others, apart from City States (makes sense) or Theocracy (makes no sense) seem to work well with them. If I were a designer I'd probably retool their unique Civic in some fashion to simply exemplify what they're capable of. Producing loads of elite armed men in a very short time. They don't really need the Maintenance reduction in a Civic since the Order Religion fits them like a glove.

    The other Civics to lock into for this Civ I think are pretty easy to work well with in their theme as Culture = Social Order, Labor = Caste System, Economy = Conquest. I don't see them as joining any councils as they seem a very independent Civ. Good for a Warmonger that doesn't want to be hemmed in by authority and wants to create a lot of elite troops.

    Their Palace is another oddity, as they start with Body, Earth, and Spirit Mana. The Body and Spirit Mana make sense, as they seem to be based off of a Native American theme, but Earth is an odd one. I don't see this Civ as miners. True their buildings get defense bonuses, so that Earth I can relate to that, but the effect of the Earth Mana doesn't seem to apply to them as they seem more to use what is readily available to them rather than actively searching for something to use like Dwarves. In fact apart from Earth I, I don't see a point to them knowing Earth magic or being inclined to further obtain more Earth Mana. Perhaps switching Earth for Law would make more sense.

    Picking a Guild for them to use I think is pretty straightforward since they're so heavily reliant on Food and Production that Farmer's Guild would go well with them, and they can just focus on building improvements to increase production and not worry at all about Commerce. Specialist Economy when they run out of room to work run by Priests and Healers would fit their theme I think. Therefore, if they're warring, they're warring to get food resources, and fighting off the Clan of Embers if they're around.

    Now I've already talked a lot about how the Order religion fits them so well, but looking at their buildings and reading their story. They strike me as having an Agnostic bent to them (ie. not a follower of the major religions), which further complicates my assessment of how they fit in currently to RifE. Made more complicated is that their buildings give Disciple units a boost in XP, which really confuses me as they don't have any unique Disciple units, what sort of special Disciple units currently in RifE that don't belong to a religion can they use. Maybe they should have their own cultural units instead of religious ones, but be classified as Disciples.

    Finally the Leaders. Natane has a set of traits that work perfectly with this Civ... but Absaroke is just plain bizarre with Spiritual and Raiders. Both of which don't make a whole lot of sense to me. Spiritual in a seemingly Agnostic society is strange enough (the free Disciple Promotions basically), but Raiders for a Civ whose war-mongering traits is seemingly to preserve the land to work it, to expand their empire faster when gold and research is a low priority to them makes even less sense to me. I'm not sure at all how to rework him, but he definitely should not have Raiders. I think Aggressive and/or Imperialist might be a better fit, but that seems a little too generic.

    I don't know, maybe I'm missing something with this Civ, but how it's been set up is causing me headaches in trying to figure out a concerted plan that fits their theme with what's in place with RifE. Is this Civ locked in development, or is it still being worked on.

    Either way the Chislev currently seem very unfocused and confusing to me, but I do think that a purely Food and Production based War-Monger civ, that can maintain a sprawling empire, and produce elite cultural units quickly and make full use of RifE's Command series Promotions is definitely unique among the war-like civs and worth focusing on.
     
  2. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

    Joined:
    May 23, 2008
    Messages:
    14,450
    Location:
    Crestview FL
    The Chislev will be getting some changes in 1.4 (won't discuss them in detail yet, sorry), including a retooling from Plains to Pueblo Indians, allowing us to do some very cool things with a stack buffing unit..... ;)

    Really though, there is a very large feature that is coming that the Chislev will focus on. Other civs will be able to use it, of course, but the Chislev will be focused towards it strongly.
     
  3. Cyrusfan

    Cyrusfan King

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2009
    Messages:
    667
    Apparently not movable cities, since you've sworn up and down that only one civ will have them.
     
  4. Moosh

    Moosh Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2005
    Messages:
    61
    That, and he just compared their changes to Pueblo Indians... heh.

    -Moosh
     
  5. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

    Joined:
    May 23, 2008
    Messages:
    14,450
    Location:
    Crestview FL
    That would be the big thing ruling them out, yes.
     

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