1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Citadel resources bug?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by volisas, May 29, 2014.

  1. volisas

    volisas Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2013
    Messages:
    17
    Enemy infantry raids my oil rig which is right on the border, and instead of sending workers to repair it, I instead send a Great General to construct a citadel on top of the raided oil tile. And to my surprise and annoyance the oil does not get connected to my network anymore!!! Am I missing something or is this a bug?

    Thanks
     
  2. poekie70

    poekie70 Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 27, 2014
    Messages:
    94
    Location:
    The Netherlands
    That is a bug for sure any great person tile improvement should give the strategic recource below it.
     
  3. docbud

    docbud Emperor

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2012
    Messages:
    1,518
    I wasn't aware that a Great General/Citadel will repair a pillaged resource. I was under the impression that it will connect a resource and improve it, but I don't know about repairing.
     
  4. subtledoctor

    subtledoctor Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2014
    Messages:
    92
    It's not about repairing the improvement - after all when you replace one improvement with another, the original one is immediately erased.

    Just to confirm this has nothing to do with pillaging/repairing: this bug struck me in my recent game. I forward-settled Casimir, and bought a silver tile in his capital's 2nd ring. (Playing as America, no sense being shy.) He DOWs me, I fend him off and earn a GG. I plant the GG on the silver, which has a working mine at the time. Suddenly my happiness drops by 4 and silver's no longer in my network. Very frustrating.
     
  5. Chum

    Chum King

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2014
    Messages:
    708
    That's not a bug. Citadels only connect STRATEGIC resources. Not luxuries.
     
  6. docbud

    docbud Emperor

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2012
    Messages:
    1,518
    I don't know about that. Seems to me the oil had already been accessed and improved, and then pillaged. I don't see how plopping a citadel on it would delete the old pillaged oil well and replace it was a new one that is unpillaged.
     
  7. subtledoctor

    subtledoctor Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2014
    Messages:
    92
    Ah... didn't realize that. I thought all great person improvements give access to all underlying resources. Thanks for clarifying. (Seems silly though - why would a citadel be able to extract, say, iron or uranium from the ground, but not silver or copper?)

    Whenever you replace one improvement with another, the first one disappears. If you do this with a worker (e.g. mine a formerly irrigated hill), I believe the tile will be *unimproved* while the work is going on - unlike in Civ4 where the old improvement remained and you could interrupt the worker. With great person improvements it switches instantly, but it still switches. Check the hammer output of a citadel built on top of a mine or oil rig: it should give you less production.

    I figure the 'pillaged' status of the first improvement should disappear with the improvement... but maybe it doesn't, maybe that is the bug here. In which case you should repair the tile before planting the GG. Sigh... they bill this game as streamlined and simplified, but there are a million little effects that aren't obvious, and are completely undocumented in the 'Pedia. I can see why many players prefer Civ4...
     
  8. docbud

    docbud Emperor

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2012
    Messages:
    1,518
    ^^I know what you are saying, but to me, at least in this case, the oil resource is already there. It's not like a citadel was being plopped on a farm that had oil underneath.

    In the OP's case, he didn't use the GG to make a citadel to replace one improvement with another. The tile had already been improved with an oil well (though it was now pillaged). I don't think it's a bug that a Citadel doesn't replace an oil rig with another oil rig. I mean, why would anyone replace the same improvement? It would be like creating a uranium mine, and when it was done putting a Citadel on it. What purpose would it serve?

    The OP clearly wanted to use a Citadel in the hopes that it would repair the oil well. And Citadels don't do that.

    So far as Citadels not being able to improve luxury resources, I think that other great persons can create tile improvements for luxuries, but not resources, and vice versa. That's why there are different great people.

    I've never played Civ 4 nor any of the other previous Civ games. Civ V was my first.
     
  9. Vitruvius

    Vitruvius King

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2013
    Messages:
    862
    Pretty sure you cannot connect a pillaged strategic resource. You have you repair it first before planting your citadel. Maybe if you can let them pillage your citadel and repair it and then I will reconnect the resource but I am not sure on that.

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
     
  10. volisas

    volisas Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2013
    Messages:
    17
    Hi everyone,

    I'm more convinced it is a bug now. So before the war I had 14 oil, of which 7 were in the (large oil) tile in question (another 4 in water and another 3 in small oil land tile). I was using 7 units that require oil. As I said above, enemy infantry raids the large oil well in question, I plant GG and get nothing (oil resources show as 7, presumably from the remaining water and small tiles). After my original post, I sent a worker to replace the citadel with a new, re-constructed oil well. And suddenly my oil resources drop to -7 (!), even though the water and small oil tiles remained intact. Which means that the counter for the oil resources was totally broken by my placement of the citadel on the raided oil well.

    Well.... what can you do.
     
  11. volisas

    volisas Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2013
    Messages:
    17
    Sorry, just read this. But is this a game concept or a bug? I think it should be a bug. There is definitely value in preventing citadels from connecting pillaged resources, for strategic balance purposes (you need to defend that position while workers repair it). But then again planting a citadel should also count as reclaiming and securing the relevant area back from enemy control.... So even if it is intended and not a bug, it's a bad game concept there, I think.
     
  12. Calouste

    Calouste Deity

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2006
    Messages:
    2,725
    There's nothing really logical about that, it's just a gameplay issue. All luxuries are visible from the start so you can avoid them when making a Great Person improvement. Strategics are not all visible from the start, but their location is fixed from the beginning of the game, so you might build a Great Person improvement on a tile where a strategic resource is hidden. This doesn't apply to Archeological sites, because they only get generated when Archeology is discovered by someone.
     
  13. Halcyan2

    Halcyan2 Emperor

    Joined:
    May 12, 2012
    Messages:
    1,380
    There is another thread about someone not getting access to a formerly pillaged wine after settling a new city on top of it. So it could be an issue with pillaged resources.
     
  14. Tabarnak

    Tabarnak Cut your lousy hairs!

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,968
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Québec
    Clearly a bug to me(nice find!). You shouldnt have to repair the tile. I dont see any difference between an untouched tile and a pillaged tile. Results are the same. Otherwise we should need to improve the tile before planting the citadel which is not the case.
     
  15. HorseshoeHermit

    HorseshoeHermit 20% accurate as usual, Morty

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2013
    Messages:
    1,306
    Location:
    Canada
    docbud is confused about the meaning of "improve". The question at hand is what does a Citadel connect to the trade network. The phrase "improves a resource" is something taken from the game's 'Pedia to refer to the connection of resources, yet "improving" also is used to speak of the use of "improvements" in many other ways. And improvements and resource connection are two different things. Thus, let me avoid using the term "improve" for a while.

    There are a few legal improvements for any given tile, but at most one improvement may be used on it. When putting an improvement on a tile, the game preserves the "at most one" rule by immediately erasing any improvement there. This is easily seen by trying it out. It's harder to construct a scenario to see that the same happens to a pillaged improvement, but it's the same rule.

    You can connect a strategic or luxury resource to the empire either by using a legal improvement on it, or by building a Feitoria in the City-State's territory. Feitorias have their own rules. When we exclude them, we see that improvements can only connect the resource they are sitting on, hence we can say they "improve" that resource, or fail to. Improvements are "legal" for connecting strategic and luxury resources under two conditions. One, the improvement must not be pillaged. Two, the improvement must be defined to improve that strategic or luxury resource.

    When it is said that a Great Person Tile Improvement improves strategic resources, it means that putting a Citadel on Horses connects those horses to your empire. It doesn't put a Pasture on the tile, it just outright connects the Horses, because Citadels are defined to do that for Horses just as Pastures are.

    When a Citadel is put on an Oil tile, the Oil should be connected. It's irrelevant what other improvement was on the tile, because that improvement is gone.
     
  16. docbud

    docbud Emperor

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2012
    Messages:
    1,518
    ^^So you're basically saying that when the citadel is planted on the pillaged oil rig, it should disconnect the oil resource and then reconnect it?
     

Share This Page