Citizen discussion: Should we indistrialization after getting steam power?

[donsig]

It looks as though we will acquire steam power when we sign the MPP with Greece. It also seems we will raising our science spending rate in order to do our own research. We also have a poll that currently calls for us to use Horsa to rush Universal Suffrage. We are currently researching medicine but wil need industrialization to rush US, which is also being built by the Greeks. (Best current estimate is they are 35 turns away.) Should we continue on with our medical research or switch immediately to industrialization once we have steam power?

Relevant links:

What should we do with our Great Leader?
Info Poll: Which of these deals do you favor with Greece?
What to do with our GL?
Discussion: MPP with Greece
Do we want to trigger a Golden Age before getting our UU?
Science Department queue discussions.


Note that there is not enough time to poll this. It would have to be implemented via a turn chat vote.

 

[FortyJ]

I'm not yet convinced that we can afford to raise our Science funding rate. When the original Greek offer of 206gpt was being tossed around, it made sense, because we could still operate at a surplus while funding science 100%.

However, the new plan (Steam Power and less gpt) may not allow for this possibility to take place. I fear that it is not worth our while to do our own research (given the advantage the AI has at this level) if we cannot give it 100% as a Monarchy or something very close to that as a Republic or Democracy.

Regardless, I think we should devote ourselves to discovering the critical resource techs as quickly as possible (coal which we will get from Steam Power, rubber, oil, etc...). Once we get Coal, we should jump over to finding Rubber (which will give us Infantry), then to Oil (Panzers ).

If we know where these resources are, and more importantly, who has them and who doesn't, we can better plot our path through the future.

 

[Donovan Zoi]

While I want Universal Suffrage very much, I still think we should raise the science rate slightly and make a play for Medicine. We already have time invested in discovery of that tech; switching to Industrialization would bring us back to square one.

If we discover Medicine soon enough, we should be able to make a trade for Industrialization.

 

[FortyJ]

Originally posted by Donovan Zoi
We already have time invested in discovery of that tech

With all due respect.... we've dedicated all of 16 beakers of scientific research towards Medicine. Hardly much to worry about if we are indeed seriously discussing commencing our own research.

 

[Feodor Ardent]

Yes, let's definitely switch to researching Industrialization. It is vastly more important than Medicine and getting in a trade is going to be next to impossible.

 

[Donovan Zoi]

You know, Forty.......

I thought about that after I wrote it. It just seems like dedicating 16 turns to a project should amount to something. That just shows how useless scientists are in Civ3(except for the way we have been using them for the entire game).

Well, if we were to raise the science rate and both techs would take the same amount of time, then I would be OK with the switch.

 

[FortyJ]

DZ
I didn't mean any offense by that.... It's just I was thinking the same thing until I started looking at the possibility of switching to 100% research and realized we could research Steam Power 1 turn faster than Medicine despite having spent the last 16 turns working towards the latter.

That was when I realized that our previous research methodology allowed for virtually painless switching between techs. So, naturally, when I saw your comment, I started laughing. No offense intended, Lord Zoi.

 

[Donovan Zoi]

None taken, Sir Forty!

I probably should have put a smiley in my reply somewhere, because I was laughing too(on the outside....)

Seriously though, before our little deal with the Greeks surfaced, I was trying to find a way to boost the science rate so that we may have a chance for Industrialization. I took 93 citizens off the land and made them scientists and our reseach time hardly even changed. So, for the record, I was rolling my eyes at the scientists, not you.

 

[Goonie]

I believe we should stay the course Captain!

 

[Chieftess]

Strider changed the science path to Industrialization this past turn chat. It stands at 12 turns (80% research). We can still make a minimal surplus at 100% researh (10 turns).

 

[Goonie]

That is legal? Just changing the course without a vote? That doesn't sound like Democracy!

 

[Shaitan]

@Goonie - No, it really doesn't. Especially when the only proposed queue that Strider discussed had Medicine and Sanitation ranked above Industrialization. It seems like the old arbitrary science department where herr leader does whatever he wants.

 

[Donovan Zoi]

@Shaitan & Goonie - I was at the turnchat and it was changed at donsig's request. The issue stemmed from our decision to acquire Steam Power from the Greeks paired with an 11th hour victory in the polls for our building Universal Suffrage with our Great Leader. With this new information, it was determined that the quickest way to make this happen was to switch to Industrialization immediately.

For the record, I also authorized raising the science rate to 80% during the chat to give us the best balance of research and gpt. I realize that this should have been polled as well, but once again feel our situation warranted it. The only alternative would have been to stop the chat again.

 

[Shaitan]

That sounds a bit better. The way it was described sounded like an arbitrary switch.

 

[donsig]

Originally posted by Shaitan
That sounds a bit better. The way it was described sounded like an arbitrary switch.

Strider action's were made at my request. Since he liked the change it avoided the time to take a spot vote. The poll on what to do with our great leader prompted my request. At the time (and I hope even now) the winning result was to rush universal suffrage.

 

[Feodor Ardent]

Observation: even if we don't get to Democracy, keeping US out of the hands of the Persians is vital. A properly run democratic superpower could overun us.

 

[Goonie]

I still want to know that if the context strider did it in is legal? I dont want a PI, I just want to know for the future, so that we dont end up with issues like this again.

 

[Shaitan]

Yes, the Science Leader is in charge of organizing our scientific research and can change what we are researching. Normally it would be very bad if this was done as the queue is set up based on citizen responses. In this case Strider was implementing a more recently expressed decision by the populous (the GL poll) to go for industrialization so the change was justified.