City improvements

[jc011]

I have a question, should i build all city improvements, just some of them, or none at all. I find that the computer cities have no improvements or just a little yet they seem to do just fine. Although without barracks, my units are useless, unless i have sun tzu's academy. If i build all improvements I have less units to defend and attack my enemies. What are some of the essential improvements that i need? Thanks

 

[shadowdale]

Well I build most of them - but of the ones that I don't build I know that the majority of CFC members would disagree with me on whether to build them or not.

I never build any of the military improvements since I always bribe my opponents, and hardly every go to war. I also never build the SDI thing, but that is because the AI never ever get to have nukes......
The airfield can be really good if you continue to use a lot of caravans/freights, but since I establish all my trade routs before they are build and don't do much in trade besides that I never build them either!!!

But what you need to do is experiment with the different improvements, because knowing which improvements to build and which not to build is part of developing your own unique style of playing!!! And it's a great learning progress!!!

------------------
We are species 8472 - assimilation attempts are futile - the weak shall perish

No wait we are species 5618 and we got beer...... don't harm us!!!!!!

 

[goodbye_mr_bond]

I only build barracks in key cities with high production, and then only if I'm expecting to go on the offensive. I find I use them most for healing units in one turn than for producing units anyway. Phalanxes do fine for defense, especially as G. Wall is also one of my first wonders.

Marketplace is usually my first, followed by a temple if needed (depending on level). Libraries and harbours are not far behind--and are a great combination to boost science in coastal cities. I never build granaries. If I didn't manage to build the Pyramids, then I'd just wait until I conquer it for my cities to grow quickly. (Of course I build caravans, settlers, phalanxes, etc in between the improvements, according to my particular startegy in the game).

I've never really built (maybe just once or twice in an unusual game): granary, SDI, police station, cathedral, port facility, hydro or nuclear plant.

P.S.: Are you sure the captured AI cities didn't have improvements at first, but they were destroyed in your attack?

EDIT: added P.S.

[This message has been edited by goodbye_mr_bond (edited August 28, 2001).]

 

[jc011]

I never send spies to sabotage improvements if im going to capture it, i only see improvements in large cities near the capitol, but the far out ones usually have nothing or just a few

 

[Peteus]

No, he meant that when you capture a city, some of its improvements are destroyed! You could check for sure though, by using a spy to view the city before you kick it over.

 

[ratrangerm]

When you capture a city, it always seems to be the improvements that help decrease unhappiness are first to go...temples always seem to be taken out. Coliseums tend to remain in larger cities.

Interestingly, if you capture a large city with a bank and a marketplace, the marketplace may get destroyed, but the bank doesn't.

As for the original question, I generally build most all the improvements in every city, with a few exceptions. I don't build granaries unless a city is growing slowly. I don't build barracks for the most part, as you can often gain experience by having units attack barbarians early in the game or as the game progresses. Airports are best served when you expand onto two continents and you don't want to build them in every city either.

There's some other examples, but that's just a few to start with.

 

[Aristonico]

I am also in the way to build everything except barracks... I hate when they are sold

Even, check when you have conquest a new city of your enemy which improvements can you sell. Of course, if you have Piramyds, granaries out; Mike's the Cathedral is useless... and so on. If they have a barrack I simply keep it.

 

[allan]

Most of my cities end up with just about everything at the end.... I'll build marketplaces when the city produces three trade arrows, or right away if I have Adam Smith's (I usually have at least three arrows or more right away in a new city in democracy though), temples until I have Mike's Chapel (then temples are unnecessary, but sometimes I'll build them when a large city stops celebrating because of one unhappy, when it still has capacity to grow), libraries after three beakers, universities after about ten or so beakers, banks after six arrows, stock markets after I've established three trade routes, etc.

Airports and superhighways go in new cities in modern times BEFORE I give them trade routes, to maximize the cash (and beaker) bonus. Airports especially go into new cities on islands, newly-settled continents, or areas near enemies--in order to use airlifts in a pinch.... Offshore platforms don't go in unless there are more than two or three water squares, and if it's just a few like that then they don't go in until right before I capitalize my shields.... Harbors go in when they're needed for growth--i.e. early if there are a lot of water squares (on a peninsula or small island), later if there aren't as many.... Every city eventually gets a factory/manufacturing plant, the lesser shield producers however will get them only before I capitalize them.... Solar plants only go where there is at least one pollution danger sign....

I build Mike's Chapel to provide cathedrals (so I don't build them), Pyramids for granaries, Hoover Dam for hydro plants, Suffrage for police stations, SETI for research labs, etc. I LOVE wonders that give free improvements everywhere, and try to build all such wonders.... And I also love Adam Smith's, to pay for those basic improvements....

A typical building order in early game:
--marketplace
--temple (sometimes these two are reversed)
--library
--bank (or harbor)

In late game:
--harbor (gotta reach size three to start celebrating!)
--airport
--marketplace
--bank
--library
--superhighways
--three freights
--stock exchange
--university
(then whatever the circumstances dictate)

In late game, barracks go in after factories and manufacturing plants--these will build the mech infantries that I drop into new cities after rushbuilding the airport!

 

[The Splang]

I generaly like to conquer everyone the old way (actual TROOPS!:eek

So my cities are very unique in what they produce

Colony(1-4) settlers, defenders, and caravans.

generaly improvements aren't built unless they produce alot.

City (4-10) Lots of troops

. they generally build alot of economic improvements, i get ST so barracks are a no no.

Uber city (10 and up). these are they culture heart of my empire

, they have wonders, science flurishes, and there people aren't violently oppressed

like everyone else

. These cities are genaraly my SSC, capital, and 4-5 resource cities.

 

[starlifter]

By Allan:

In late game:
--harbor (gotta reach size three to start celebrating!)
--airport
--marketplace
--bank
--library
--superhighways
--three freights
--stock exchange
--university
(then whatever the circumstances dictate)

In late game, I consider part of the cost of a new city buying (rush) the improvements. No new city is allowed to build an improvement. If a city is a combat city, it might build an Airport, SDI, City Walls, Coastal Fortress, etc. instead of the normal economic improvements!

1. Supermarket (Instant Rush Buy)
2. Harbor (Instant Rush Buy, if applicable)
3. Marketplace
4. Bank
5. Aquaduct (Six turns after founding, all new cities will be size 8)
6. Stock Exchange
7. Sewer System (Four turns after Size 8, city will be size 12)
8. Colosseum (usually must have by size 13 or 14 to keep growth at Deity)
9. Superhighways
10. Airport (and three freight now come in)

11. Depends on city's function (trade, production, fortress, etc.)

 

[Series1999]

Wow is 1x1x a different game... i would never build a supermarket in MP and even in SP theyre like a last resort whn i have nothing left to build...

 

[starlifter]

The Supermarket fuels my torrid late-game growth rate. It sustains leigons of engineers (sometimes over 1,000). Even size 3 cities are expected to support engineers as they grow, and the supermarket (and sometimes even an offshore platform) is required for this.


A new city founded in late game gets a new improvement every single, or at worst every other, turn. It takes lots of gold, which is funded with freight

.

 

[allan]

Starlifter: Do you sink three engineers into a new city, to get it to start at size three? Or do you use food caravans? I usually don't bother doing those things (I'll let it grow as it will up to 3, then try to keep the WLTP days going), although I might try it and find it beneficial....

I usually don't build the supermarket until I have at least ONE square in its radius converted to farmland (sometimes it's already there, when I'm building between older cities and I've prepped the land around it before founding, but usually my new cities are on remote frontiers and the land must be developed as they're growing)--why pay for it before it has an effect, even if it is just "chump change" at that point?

Airports aren't ALWAYS first (or second) either.... But if the city is in a remote area unreachable by roads (or on an island), as they usually are at first, then the airport goes in (it helps for bringing in engineers to develop the land, or the first vet mech inf (and any other troops as needed) from one of my troop-factory cities). I usually either rush build outright, or wait one turn and get a big discount on the rush buy.... And aqueducts get rush-built at size seven or eight, sewers at 11 or 12--so insert those in my list where needed.

[This message has been edited by allan (edited September 06, 2001).]

 

[starlifter]

Starlifter: Do you sink three engineers into a new city, to get it to start at size three? Or do you use food caravans?

ABSOLUTELY use Engineers to Join to Size 3! I cannot maintain growth and science margins otherwise. This is why it is critical for me to have some "core" cities fully developed and working in a DEMOCRACY... in GOTM 7, I had between 30 and 40 cities whose "job" it was, in effect, to "build" 100 cities from scratch.

Now to be honest, there are certain times when even 20,000 gold is not enough to buy improvements in all the cities I want, and at such times, I may hold off on 3 to 5 new cities going to size 3 instantly. That's because it is pointless (to me) for a city to start celebrating, and have it interrupted for any reason. Better (in general) for a new city to hold off until I can afford instantly buying all it's improvements, and use the money to keep other cities growing.

I expect the city to be a powerhouse in about 16 game turns from it's establishment. That is, it better be making me 40 shields per turn at that point (to churn out more engineers), or 50 (to churn out freight). I won't tolerate slacker cities in late game... time is too short.

I do not use food caravans to grow cities. Since I evolved my own play style in isolation, I never realized you could use a Food Caravan to force a city to grow, even if it was short of food. Hence, I disdain the FCT and even Food Caravans to this day <IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/wink.gif" border=0>. Once in a while, I deliver one by mistake, thinking it is a commodity; however, in GOTM 7 I made no such mistake, and hence never used a single food caravan for food purposes. I used tons of them for Wonders and Spaceship parts, however <IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/beerchug.gif" border=0>.

In a few cases, I will use a food caravan to keep a city from starving, like happened in GOTM 5 (the one where we were the Germans). I think I used a few in GOTM 6, too, during the "engineer shuffle" that I sometimes do in the final years before a SS lands.

But to summarize about your question... I join most new late-game cities to size 3 so they start instant growth two turns later. With enough excess food, entertaineers can even be used in a larger city (like joining to size 4 or 5) to make up for no temple, marketplace, bank, etc. at first. And that is another "power" of supermarkets.

BTW, if you're in very late game (past radio), use airfields or a double 3-stack of engineers to get the first farmland going. In very late game, I will sometimes lots of airfields if the world is peaceful. In GOTM 7, I covered central South America and parts of Russia with airfields because I was already short of engineer man-years and behind schedule. But there are certain downsides to using airfields, too... and that's probably another thread, as this post is getting long.

EDIT: Typos

[This message has been edited by starlifter (edited September 07, 2001).]

 

[starlifter]

...
I usually either rush build outright, or wait one turn and get a big discount on the rush buy
...

I will let you in on another secret, if you promise to use it to increase your score

...

The "big discount" is exactly 80 minus two times the number of shields the city will produce on the next turn. Often, new cities will get a new improvement every turn and I'll pay this penalty, particularly if the city is on the front lines or will become a real powerhouse. Powerhouses are those special cities that can generate 10 shields by size 5 or so, and 20 shields by size 20 or so. They get a new improvement every turn because they must have a factory by size 6, a Mass Transit and possibly an Offshore Platform before about size 12, and maybe a Manufacturing Plant and recycling plant after that. And they still need all the happiness improvements.

These number will causes the city to help pay for its own improvements each turn, and offset the 60 to 80 gold it costs to RB (rush Buy) improvements. Carefully done, you can save a large amount of money by doing PRB's when your factory is working (PRB = Partial Rush Buy).

Here is my theory on PRBs: If you have a factory and 10 natural shields, that's 20 (you have Hoover Dam). Buy a temple, swithc to palace, buy the palace, the switch to Sewer or Bank. You just saved 20*2=40 gold with your factory! And the growth did not get hampered.

Another example... and this is common in Democracy. I don't tolerate pollution, as my engineers are always overworked anyway, so when a city hits that 42nd shield in late game, the odds of pollution are great. That means a recycling plant is needed. All your 160 shield improvements are built (mass Transit, Offshore, Stock) But how to get a RP cheaply in one turn? Hehe... it is the Library!! In my build order, science improvements are not yet built because there is no possible time to build them without halting growth (and growth stoppage is not tolerated in my empire, at least in late game). So IRB a temple, change to library, and next turn, it will be complete (you have over 40 shields per turn)... now you have a University available (which is the reason you wanted the Library), plus a little science boost. Now, IRB a temple, then PRB a Recycling Plant (that is, buy a University, then switch to RP). Now you just saved 80 gold! Multiply this times about 100 (or more) cities of your 250, times the 4 or 5 improvements you can do this with, and you have just saved about 40,000 gold on a large map.


OK, enough for now, LOL

.