KrikkitTwo
Immortal
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2004
- Messages
- 12,418
This is partially borrowed from another thread that seems to have gotten buried, so I can't claim credit. However here is the idea
1. Replace lump sum gold->city state influence with gpt->influence per turn. (to stop sudden 'buy ups' of City States, and make CS requests more important)
2. Make City State-ally wars not eliminate all influence factors
3. Have “Pledge to Protect” matter
4. Make wars with civs cause City-States to be more expensive
5. Something useful for excess Luxuries (for those that either don't manipulate the AI or if they ever fix it)
The basic plan would be like this
City State "Investment" Levels
If Influence is less than 0
None: 0 gpt: +1 Influence per turn
If Influence is greater than 0
None: 0 gpt: -1 influence per turn
Low: 8 gpt: 0 influence per turn
Medium: 16 gpt: +1 influence per turn
High: 30 gpt: +2 influence per turn
You would still be allowed to make a Lump sum payment if your influence was less than 30 (not Friends).
The Lump sum would be at 500 gold for 30 influence.
City State War and peace would work differently.
If you attacked a City State, your influence would automatically drop to -30 (the new level of War)
every CS unit you killed, or turn you trespassed, or time you attacked their city would give you negative influence.
If you wanted to make peace with the City State, you would have to
1. Wait until the influence naturally recovers to -29.. at which point they would automatically offer peace
2. Pay them a Lump sum large enough to recover to -29 (at 20 gold per influence)
If you attacked the Ally or Friend of the City State, the City State will not automatically declare war.
Instead
If you are at war with any of the City State's Friends you lose 1 additional Influence point per turn. (overall not per friend)
If you are at war with the Ally of the City State, You must either
Invest at a Higher level than the Ally [if the Ally had "United Front" Social Policy this would not be an option]
OR
Suffer -5 Influence per turn (with no Investment or lump sums allowed) until the City State is at -30 (War) status. And not be allowed in the City State Territory
If you declare peace with the Ally, the City States will stay at war with you, recovering in the normal way.
This would mean that staying a City State Ally is cheapest when you are at peace with all the other civs that are Friends with the City State.
Luxuries....
Luxury goods could be traded to the City States instead of gpt for the support level
City States would only accept Luxuries that they did not have.
Each Luxury would be worth 5 gpt (you would receive gold Back from the City State, if you were giving them more luxuries than were necessary for a certain level of Influence)
Social Policies/Religions.. effect on cost
If a City State had a different world religion from you... + 25% cost
When Renaissance is reached, the City State chooses “Rationalism” or “Piety”
If the City State Chooses “Piety” and you have a different world religion OR you have Rationalism Social Policies.... +25% cost
If the City State Chooses “Rationalism” and you don’t have Rationalism Social Policies....+25% cost
When Industrial is reached, the City State chooses “Freedom”, “Autocracy”, or “Order”
If you don’t have any of that Social Policy +25% cost
If you have any of the opposing Social Policies +25% cost (for a total of +50%)
so a total possible of +100% (opposing social policies and different religions) by Industrial era
[adopting a social policy/religion agreeing with or opposing the City State’s choice would have a one time influence bonus/penalty as well.. say 10]
"Pledge Protection" would be something any Friend or Ally of a City State could do.. it would give them an influence boost with the City State. (Multiple Civs can protect a city state)
But, if the City state is attacked by someone, and a “Protector” Doesn’t go to war with the attacker, then the Protector gets
a small influence penalty with all City States they have pledged to protect, and
a big influence penalty with the City States being attacked
UAs/Patronage SPs
To have similar effects
Greece would gain +0.5 additional influence per turn at any investment level (so none would be -0.5, and Low Investment would be a slow gain)
Patronage Opener (-25% less cost): -2 gpt base cost (before % modifiers) to all maintenance costs
Left side (+20% yield): -25% costs
Right side (minimum 20): get an additional +2 influence points each turn when Influence is less than 20
Finisher (25% faster decline for others): +2 gpt base cost to CS that are your Friends for Civs that Don’t have this.
1. Replace lump sum gold->city state influence with gpt->influence per turn. (to stop sudden 'buy ups' of City States, and make CS requests more important)
2. Make City State-ally wars not eliminate all influence factors
3. Have “Pledge to Protect” matter
4. Make wars with civs cause City-States to be more expensive
5. Something useful for excess Luxuries (for those that either don't manipulate the AI or if they ever fix it)
The basic plan would be like this
City State "Investment" Levels
If Influence is less than 0
None: 0 gpt: +1 Influence per turn
If Influence is greater than 0
None: 0 gpt: -1 influence per turn
Low: 8 gpt: 0 influence per turn
Medium: 16 gpt: +1 influence per turn
High: 30 gpt: +2 influence per turn
You would still be allowed to make a Lump sum payment if your influence was less than 30 (not Friends).
The Lump sum would be at 500 gold for 30 influence.
City State War and peace would work differently.
If you attacked a City State, your influence would automatically drop to -30 (the new level of War)
every CS unit you killed, or turn you trespassed, or time you attacked their city would give you negative influence.
If you wanted to make peace with the City State, you would have to
1. Wait until the influence naturally recovers to -29.. at which point they would automatically offer peace
2. Pay them a Lump sum large enough to recover to -29 (at 20 gold per influence)
If you attacked the Ally or Friend of the City State, the City State will not automatically declare war.
Instead
If you are at war with any of the City State's Friends you lose 1 additional Influence point per turn. (overall not per friend)
If you are at war with the Ally of the City State, You must either
Invest at a Higher level than the Ally [if the Ally had "United Front" Social Policy this would not be an option]
OR
Suffer -5 Influence per turn (with no Investment or lump sums allowed) until the City State is at -30 (War) status. And not be allowed in the City State Territory
If you declare peace with the Ally, the City States will stay at war with you, recovering in the normal way.
This would mean that staying a City State Ally is cheapest when you are at peace with all the other civs that are Friends with the City State.
Luxuries....
Luxury goods could be traded to the City States instead of gpt for the support level
City States would only accept Luxuries that they did not have.
Each Luxury would be worth 5 gpt (you would receive gold Back from the City State, if you were giving them more luxuries than were necessary for a certain level of Influence)
Social Policies/Religions.. effect on cost
If a City State had a different world religion from you... + 25% cost
When Renaissance is reached, the City State chooses “Rationalism” or “Piety”
If the City State Chooses “Piety” and you have a different world religion OR you have Rationalism Social Policies.... +25% cost
If the City State Chooses “Rationalism” and you don’t have Rationalism Social Policies....+25% cost
When Industrial is reached, the City State chooses “Freedom”, “Autocracy”, or “Order”
If you don’t have any of that Social Policy +25% cost
If you have any of the opposing Social Policies +25% cost (for a total of +50%)
so a total possible of +100% (opposing social policies and different religions) by Industrial era
[adopting a social policy/religion agreeing with or opposing the City State’s choice would have a one time influence bonus/penalty as well.. say 10]
"Pledge Protection" would be something any Friend or Ally of a City State could do.. it would give them an influence boost with the City State. (Multiple Civs can protect a city state)
But, if the City state is attacked by someone, and a “Protector” Doesn’t go to war with the attacker, then the Protector gets
a small influence penalty with all City States they have pledged to protect, and
a big influence penalty with the City States being attacked
UAs/Patronage SPs
To have similar effects
Greece would gain +0.5 additional influence per turn at any investment level (so none would be -0.5, and Low Investment would be a slow gain)
Patronage Opener (-25% less cost): -2 gpt base cost (before % modifiers) to all maintenance costs
Left side (+20% yield): -25% costs
Right side (minimum 20): get an additional +2 influence points each turn when Influence is less than 20
Finisher (25% faster decline for others): +2 gpt base cost to CS that are your Friends for Civs that Don’t have this.
