Civ 3 GOTM#5 *Spoiler* talks

[SuperMario666]

This starting position is soooo bad.

I didn't think it would work but I tried it anyway; I walked my first settler and worker all the way to just south of Paris. Joan then had no choice but to build her second city on the tundra to the north. Meanwhile, I'm building nothing but archers. I get four of them (in retrospect three would have worked) and I seize Paris. I then use the remaining archers to fend of the 4-5 warrior counterattack. Joan decides she's had enough and sues for peace. All thats left of France is one of those perennial (until Harbors at least) size two cities, so I can pretty much dispatch France at will; I don't, I decided to keep them around for a couple techs.

Meanwhile Russia is demanding gold and being a pain. I found a city on a hill for the upcoming war; This pays off as the Russians are unable to take my hilltop, swordsmen defended city. I sue for peace and get it for the low price of 60 gold, and start building horsemen, lots and lots of horsemen. Said horsemen eventually rampage throughout the Russian Empire. France inexplicably declares war and promptly ceases to exist. Russia sues for peace and gets it for the high price of all of their techs, gold and all but three of their (worthless tundra) cities.

At this point I start building infrastructure, Moscow gets an FP and the whole former Russian territories are now the most productive area of the empire. I manage to swipe a few wonders, since Moscow has so many wonderful hills and the floodplains neccessary to support a large population. I race to cavalry, with the intention of taking out the Egyptians, but they hit Riflemen like two turns before the troops land, so I use this force to steal Spice island from the Greeks.

That's pretty much where I stand right now. I'm still lusting after the luxuries of Egypt, but the tech race is pretty tight so I may just shoot for Space Race win; after all how can I lose: I'm pretty much the Russians and the Americans

 

[SouthPaw]

I need some advice, i have played this map into the modern times era and pretty much dominate the map but need some advice to get the maximum points out of it.

the french are long gone even though they put up a fight and the russian are dead as well from all those horsemen i sent, i turn the japanese and greeks on egyptians and take out the japanese the moment all three of them sign peace treaty. after that i make the greek and egyptian fight each other using mpp and the moment i received my golden age from building seti project i built lots of modern armour and took over the island with thebes in it.

so the egyptian is left with 3 cities in a lousy south east of the island i just took over. the greeks control half of the island which they started with the japanese and the spice islands. and one other island west of spice island.

do i rebuild all those resisting egyptian cities and play out till 2050 before flying a space ship, or do i sent all those modern armour and take out greek's main cities and try to win by domination or conquest if possible? which would get me more points? all those corruption and quick build is making my treasury low, i wont be able to build those egyptian cities should i decide to attack the greeks.

 

[pompeynunn]

Well, interesting game.

As soon as I saw the French north of me, I knew they had to be destroyed quickly. Found the iron resource just north of me, then geared up my whole strategy to utilise it, 'cos the Frenchies didn't have one. Russia started demanding things damn early - I appeased them at first.

Then just as I built my city next to the iron resource - pow - it disappears! Bummer! Another one appears in the far North East of the continent - trouble is, the Frenchies have blocked the route with a new city.

Sod it, with one last throw of the dice, I build a few archers (not enough I thought), and started a war against the French anyway. Lo and behold, a couple of quick cities captured, and the tide has turned.

I've now defeated the French, gearing up to take on the Russkies, and I'm probably level on techs with everybody.

The key seems to be taking out the French early, then getting to that choke point west of the French starting position to stop the Russkies.

 

[Taé Shala]

@Southpaw

Play it out.

Someone (SirPleb?) has calculated that you must have an early vic (~1500AD) to get more bonus than the score for playing it out.

You didn´t enter the modern age that early, did you?

About the Spaceship: If you are looking for a bonus-medal don´t go for the spaceship. Most people will go for it or the UN at this map. Being the best of a bunch of people will be hard, so try to get a cultural vic (if possible) or a late domination or conquest.

 

[ProPain]

After the february disaster of little time to play combined with an archipelago map and the boring ferrying that comes with it I was happy to see a new month. With a lot more time on my hands I plan to finish and submit again.

Crappy starting position and I make a mistake of starting reserarch with bronze working and forgetting to change to the wheel. Last month the swordsmen proved to be useless pretty soon so I want to build the horsemen again. Switch to wheel and discover horsies west of france. BUild my first city SW of Paris skipping the the desert/hills spot many used because I dont know thats where the iron is. This turns out to be lucky. Build city SE of Paris on the horses and start roading to Washington. When my horsemen invasion army is ready and marching towards Paris the Russians demand trib, I refuse, they declare war. Joan was already warring them so we join forces and after a short war Russia makes peace for a few techs. Time to take out france. France is pretty easy to take out because my early cities have blocked her expansion possibilities.

Next is mighty Russia. They have a tech lead (I'm going all cash) and iron, but no horses. I take and build a few cities in the neck of the continent and make peace for a few techs again. Still no leader -> no FP -> no production. I declare war on Russia without invading and start picking of Cathies troops form my cities, until BINGO leader. BUild FP in a city just SE of Moscow and production soares. Meanwhile Knights make their appearance and I quickly finish of Russia getting techs and contact with all other civs in the process.

After finishing Russia I switch to republic and plan to develop my continent first so I can get back in the tech race. I should have known better After a few years other civs start demanding iron although I'm more powerfull. I refuse and end up with major war with Egypt. So I sent over my cavalry and raze a city but when I want to raze a few more it turns out Cleo has already built infantry Too strong for my lousy cavalry. Cleo won't talk and civil unrest is rising. I decide I'm not going down into anarchy alone and start alliances with Japan and Greece for iron. This turns out to be a major turning point for my good.

Cleo can't handle a 3 front war and makes peace with me. Japan and Greece are furious but I'm back on the happy development path. After a few turns the others make peace too and Greece and Japan sign a MPP. I'm startled but happy when Japan starts a new war with Egypt immediately after signing the Mpp A few years later Japan is a monarchy again, Greece and EGypt are communist. I start exporting luxuries for crazy amounts, buy all the techs I'm behind and get filthy rich.

It's in the 1800 now. I have a substantial tech lead (4-6 techs) and I have just landed my tanks on Japans continent. I have high hopes for this piece of land since its furtile and close to washington. I want to avoid domination so I plan on taking the patr of Greece thats on the same island as japan and razing the rest of greece and egypt.

Great game so far but I don't think my score will be any close to the top. My guess is the winner will be someone who's taken Japan early in the game getting much better production and less AI tech trading. As far as the map is concerned, my compliments to Matrix. The starting location made it a challenge and the proximity of all the islands minimized the troop ferrying. Great work!

ProPain

 

[Yoko]

my first post
i tried last months GOTM but got soundly thrashed, i was a huge fan of civ and civ2 but civ3 the higher difficulty are just too hard for me
this months GOTM i fared better
i quite like the diffuculty, enuff to keep me on my toes all map
anyway i built the first city on start point and immediately buil a road on the incense for happyiness
i build warriors and go exploring
i find a settler on a goody hut north east of paris, heheh in about 3650BC, this should give me the edge
i dont build since the terrain is tundra
i walk and build a city southwest of paris next to the sea and a cow resource
paris are quite peaceful and we trade a few techs until i get iron working and iron appears on the road btween my cities
frnace moves in to build a city there
war is inevitable
ill report back soon

 

[chinese_rider]

This is my first GOTM, and darn, the map is BAD.
I bulit my capital right at the starting point, and my scout travel north. Found Paris and the furtile land SW from it. Surprisingly, French built their second city NE of Paris, so my first settler travel all the way up to build NewYork. I saved my money, and bought Iron Working from French. When my settler form Washington was going to claim the IRON, my scout found that French settler was moving to the same direction. My scout and warrior slowed them down a bit, and woola, Boston is settled next to the IRON source, which prove to be the most important event in the early game. Also to my surprise, that French settler did not claim the horse, in stead settled north of it. While she is waiting for the culture to expand the boarder, my settler build my forth city right on the horse.
After all that, French is still polit to me, and Russia, right from the beginning, is annoying to me. While I am building my Swordman trying to take over French, Russia demanded tribute and declared war. My war effort now is on Russia. My swordman is moving toward Moscow to deny their IRON source. When I arrived there, to my surprise, it is not connected. Giving AI the credit, it has 2 Archer on the hilltop. My swordman easily claim the Iron hill, and from there on, the game is over. Although Russia sends hords and hords Archers(all her city is pop_rushed to one or two), but they are no match to my swordman. I razed all the city I captured from Ruusia, and bringing my own settlers. After razing Moscow and got a great leader, I realize that French is ferrying her settlers to the newly unoccupied land. I signed the peace treaty with Russia, got all the teach, money and one city. I then used my force to block the French settlers, and repopulated the furtile land with my leader rushing FP in the city where former Moscow was.
I found Japan, Greece and Egypt, and sold all the techs to them with good money(especially Egypt, who is backwards in tech, but high on culture). What surprise me again is except Japan knows Greece, no one talked to each other. That helped a lot to slow down the tech progressing, and also my tech brokering. There is one French city bordering with one Japanese city, and still, they do not know each other.
After 20 turns, my swordman struck again and Russia is history. I gathered my all victorious troup towards French, moment after expiration of my two luxury export to French, I struck. French is in disorder due to lack of luxury and in republic. I captured Paris with Pyramid in the first turn, and swept through France. I signed a peace treaty with them because I still need her tech. I got everything and France now has one city on tundra.
Another surprise is that all the other three Civs are now annoying or cautious to me, even though I did not break any treaty during the war, and they do not even know Russia and France anyway.
But no matter, they will be destroyed soon.
My next target is japan....

Footnote: some AI stupudity makes this game easier. Claiming the IRON and horse, building the second city on grassland, Russia not connecting IRON, and no communication between AIs are doing me a huge favor. This makes the tough map not too tough.

 

[AndyS]

This is my first GOTM and I thought it was kind of funny that my previous game I had a similar situation. The city starting position was much better and the game settings were more favorable, but I was essentially in a starting position where the closest civ's capital was close to cutting my civ into two pieces. In that game, I tried to expand past the civ and got cut off, only to die slowly (no growth, lots of corruption, isolated capital + 1 other city, etc). Strange that the civ that cut me in two didn't do the killing. I got invaded by two civs almost simultaneously, one on each 'half'.

Anyway, once I started this game I saw that expansion to the west was the only possibility since north was tundra. I found Paris quickly and built up some warriors with the intention of just fortifying on key production tiles next to the city so it couldn't grow and cut me off. After the French sent a unit to attack and failed, I tried to test the waters and attack Paris itself. I failed on the first attempt, but damaged the defender on the second and killed him on the third. I was surprised after the fact that the French attacked me with one of the two defenders of the city, because I only had to defeat one to conquer it (seems kinda silly).

Once I got Paris, I expanded west a little and then north into the tundra. The French got a settler away on a ship and currently has two cities on the same continent, but in Russian territory. I got a bunch of techs from them but I'm still behind. I'm having trouble tech brokering, as I can't seem to find a tech that one has that the others don't. I haven't yet gotten trade routes to the other civs so I can't sell them my resources yet. Russia just declared war and I'm heading over to try to cut off their iron. Luckily, when I got peace from the French, I demanded a world map and they already had on from the Russians.

We'll see how it goes from here. Like I said before, this is my first GOTM (although I played last months just for fun and didn't finish or submit since I started too late). Thanks to Matrix for organizing it and I'm looking forward to future challenges.

Andy

 

[johgn]

Originally posted by chinese_rider


Footnote: some AI stupudity makes this game easier. Claiming the IRON and horse, building the second city on grassland, Russia not connecting IRON, and no communication between AIs are doing me a huge favor. This makes the tough map not too tough.

The key point in my loss was the AI attacking and killing 3 swordsmen plus an army of swordsman, all fortified in a city on a hill. The army had 7 of 11 hps left. I don't think the AI would have done this in the 1.16 patch.

 

[Genuis]

Wow, that was impossible. I gave up before 1000 AD. This was such crap it's unbelievable. No room to expand, settlers keep getting killed by barbarians, etc. I restarted just for fun, trying to rush to Map Making and sending a bunch of settlers to the other continent, but I saw that the AI got way ahead in tech before I got Map Making. Then I gave up again.

This is my 2nd consecutive GOTM of giving up. I have only actually won 1 of them, #3 I think (the Chinese one).

Oh well, back to my other slightly easier game. I'll wait for the next one.

 

[Sullla]

I really like this map, just because it made me laugh when I finally began to see it all. All the other civs given idyllic starting conditions with plenty of room to expand while the player is crammed onto a tiny worthless peninsula surrounded by other civs with nowhere to go. Someone was having fun at our expense (Matrix...)

My game has been pretty bad so far. I very much doubt that I'll be able to win this one. Scout finds the Frenchies very early - close enough that one of us is going to have to go very soon. I send the first two warriors up to Paris to deal with Joan immediately and finally. I stole their worker and got their warrior in the field to kill himself by attacking my warrior fortified on a hill. Then 2 turns later it was my two warriors against Joan's only remaining unit, a fortified warrior in Paris. The odds of winning this are about 70%, but I got unlucky and lost. The next two units I built were killed in a "massive barbarian uprising" just outside my territory (I mean RIGHT outside it). Not to mention them pillaging all my tile improvements. It got bad - I had to whip a spearman in my capital to avoid losing it to the French.

Fast forward a while, to the point where I finally was about to kill the French. It was murder recovering from the bad luck I had earlier. I managed to find the other civs first and trade up to tech parity, and felt like I was finally going to stand a chance. Then the Russians declare war. No, I never had a chance to get to their iron because I was in the process of finishing off the French. That was bad, but I killed "the stack" of swordsmen in my chokepoint city and held off all their attempts to take it. I could deal with the Russians, even though they're 5 times my size. But they got the Japanese to declare war on me, and now this last turn the Greeks declared war too. I was actually laughing at the game tonight: no one will talk to me, trade with me, or ally with me and here the rest of the world is ganging up to take me out. Did this happen in other people's games? If I could have taken Paris in 3000BC like I set myself up to do I would have been able to deal with the Russians and everyone else wouldn't have jumped all over me. Yeah, a better player could probably have avoided my situation. But I do feel like I was dealt a bad hand from Lady Luck in my combat results this time.

Edit: Some other players here are reporting much different results from the AI. They never contacted each other in some games? Didn't go for the iron in some games? All of the civs traded like crazy in my game, allied against me, and refused to talk to me. Me versus the world - isn't that what 1.17 is like now?

 

[senecasax]

Well this is an interesting map, to say the least. Its 600 A.D. and the entire world hates me. Here's the gist:

Built capital first turn, sent scout north. Expanded south first (different than most) got new york asap. Met the french (wow they have all those techs already!?) sold em pottery. Continued to expand, met the russians, traded techs a bit. No war on the horizon - yet. Managed to get a french and russian worker out of trades early on - this was a godsend. Started colossus in N.Y. - got it done 1050 b.c. ish - really helped my science. Built Boston on desert patch by the iron - got that cattle. Built atlanta next to horsie. Around this time the french are all pissy and decide that they want to fight me. Also i end up meeting the japs, and etc etc end up with world map and a few techs. French are easily beat up w/ swordsmen, but still haven't found that GL (i NEVER get them, just bad luck i guess). Took lyons, build philadelpha in its place (west of iron). France gives me everything for peace (all gold +2 g/turn, all techs). Russia wants some tribute now, i say no way, they say war. So my 6 swordsmen i used against the french are now defending philly and startin south. Manage a war of words with the russians for awhile, uneasy peace. I sit on my arse for awhile, buildin up - workin on a settler for that nice gems spot. By now its 300 ad or so, changing to monarchy soon - this mighta been a mistake. Cities start pumpin out swordsmen while egypt allys with russia against me. By the way, Greece and France both decide to join em (and i lose my fur route with france - boo hiss). So now everyone but japan hates me and I CANT even sign a military alliance with japan?! is there somethin that allows the ai to ally even though I can't? it doesn't appear as an option! So egypt and greece send in galleys with warriors on em - ooh scary - warriors die fast, but STILL NO GL. Wonders are bein built all over the place by the AI - and THERE HASN'T BEEN A SINGLE WAR AMONG EM! Paris builds Great Library - i figure this is the only way i'll be able to catch up in tech - so I go after em full force - capture paris, destroy orleans. Russians runnin up my arse now with lotsa swordsmen - they capture philadelpha (w/ 3 spearmen defending!!), thankfully i have pikemen now for def. Chivlary on the way but - 36 TURNS! my science is pitiful now at a measly 20% and i'm still losin gold. tryin to get some more cities started northward but kinda hard when the world hates you. Oh by the way Japan decides that I'm a nice target to attack, and declares war on me as well. So heres how it stands:

Me

vs.

Remants of France (1 city, almost dead)
The Russian Bear (they got lotsa cities!)
Egypt (no biggy a.t.m. as their warriors die when they land.)
Greece (see egypt)
Japan - (not sure what they got to attack me yet haven't seen any forces)

Does the AI ever fight with itself! Man i could do with a war between Russia and Egypt or something right now! Why do they all hate me!! Its 600 AD and I hope to God that I survive this russian onslaught.

Couple mistakes I made that made a lot of difference:
Switchin to monarchy - still not sure if this was a good idea - i get an additional military police, but still...

Not Killing France when I had the chance - but then again i now got the great library, prolly never woulda had it if i didn't

Building New York south instead of north. Still not sure but prolly shoudla.

Wondering if i'll survive to 1000 AD....


Edit:
Sulla - I sympathize w/ ya. This time around the AI hates me just as much as they hate you. Isn't it great to feel loved?

 

[Aeson]

The AI has a tendancy to try and gang up on who they feel is the weakest Civ. With the starting position how it was, that's going to be the player in many cases. I never had Alliances formed against me in this game, because I was quickly near the head of the pack in number of cities and units. Signing alliances is possible, but the AI looks at the relative strengths of the civs to determine the cost.

 

[Aeson]

Building New York south instead of north. Still not sure but prolly shoudla.

I built New York south, along with 1 other city at the start. This gave me 3 productive cities quickly with at least some growth potential (all 3 ended up size 9-14). All of the city sites to the north were either poor food areas, or far enough away that corruption was a big issue until a Forbidden Palace (or in my case, a Palace jump) could be built.

 

[ProPain]

Originally posted by senecasax
...So now everyone but japan hates me and I CANT even sign a military alliance with japan?! is there somethin that allows the ai to ally even though I can't? it doesn't appear as an option!

You need the Writing tech for that option to appear. My guess is you don't have it yet and the AI has.

My game is going pretty ok. killed the japs yesterday and declared
myself ruler of the northern hemisphere

Healed my tanks and decided to wait untill synth fibers (bout 10 turns) to upgrade them to modern armor. So I get synt fibers, upgrade my tanks and try to get a ROP with greece. They refuse, so I tell em to remove their sorry infantry from my territory and they declare war 8) I just dont get that stupid AI, I'm at his front door with about 70 modern armor, he only has 40 infantry and 15 cavalry! So I grab old greece and ship my troops to the Alexendars colonies on spice island. I'm almost done razing them.

Cleo will definitely be next. She's asking tribute but her army is more pitifull than greece's.

BTW I didn't find any goody huts on this map and read only post of someone who did find one. Was my scout slow or was this map low on em?

ProPain

 

[Sullla]

I continued playing this morning, and managed to pull myself out of the incredible hole I was in last night. I'm still wondering how I did this:

1) Peace with Russia at ruinous prices - treasury and 10g/turn

2) Destruction of France (finally!) in 420AD

3) I had one city on the Greek mainland which I had founded to get the silks near the coast. The Greeks had been attacking it with archers, but every turn my elite spearmen would heal up in the barracks I put there. Well after about 10 turns of this, I get a GREAT LEADER!

Thank you Washington! Only problem was I had no way to get him back to the mainland - and the Japanese and the Greeks are massing for an attack with way too many guys. So - whip a galley in the closest city (my defending city is size 1 and can't be whipped). Sign another ruinous peace with the Japanese to prevent capture of city - but Greeks won't talk! Can I hold out for 2 more turns? Ggggggggggggggghhhhh!

I get Washington out, and the city falls on the next turn Now I have a Forbidden Palace at Paris, a decent amout of land, and finally peace with all other civs. Trading luxuries is a godsend - it's the only way I've stayed caught up on tech. The AI civs are actually up to "annoyed" with me thanks to the luxuries I'm sending them. I can't believe it, but I managed to survive.

The lesson must be to keep going and not give up no matter how bad things seem. I was about to quit this game several times but kept going on, and now might actually be able to get a win.

 

[BillChin]

Originally posted by ProPain

BTW I didn't find any goody huts on this map and read only post of someone who did find one. Was my scout slow or was this map low on em?

ProPain

I got a settler from a goody hut far east of Paris. I may have gotten two other huts, but got nothing memorable. The Russians also have a scout so they probably took all the huts on their side pretty early. The free settler helps a lot, as always.

My game is to about 1100 A.D. Production of units is painfully slow without a Forbidden Palace and the capital still on the peninsula. I was planning a palace jump but then I read the thread about a jump going to some other city than the one with the highest population. I will win my game, but my advantage is not what I want it to be after fighting three wars (Russia, Japan, France). Japan and France still have a few cities, and Paris flipped back to the French. I am waiting for 20 turns of peace to expire before retaking Paris.

 

[senecasax]

No see - I DO have the writing tech - I've just discovered education (through GL), so no more free techs for me - I still dunno why option for alliance doesn't appear!!

 

[Taé Shala]

Do you have an embassy? You have to build one to get diplomatic options...

 

[chinese_rider]

In my game, now about 350AD, France is history because I am afraid of city flipping back to them, so I broke the treaty (she has no contact to outside world, so my reputation should not be tarnished by my act). Greece and Japan still have not met Egypt YET! From the world map of Greece using my luxury trade ( I do not want them to know my world map), both Greece and Japan started to settle on the land between them and Egypt. Also Egypt has the lighthouse, but I have not seen ONE boat from her. That is a surprise for me, but works for me.
The barbarian from the northern tundra of former Russia land is poping up like crazy. This redirected some of my swordsman into that area before I can populate over there. Since I have a big treasury, I really do not want my city raided, especially most of the new cities with only one spearman on duty.
Now everyone except Egypt reached middle age, and I think Japan will soon get pikeman. Since Egypt does not have IRON and horse, I may direct my force to them when I get the knight. And they have a very high culture, so get rid of them earlier may save a lot of flipping later.
The goody hut from east of Paris gave me Ceremonial Burial.