Oh goody! Ive got some catching up to do
First we better back up what I said to see what gps is on about (sorry I missed ya buddy, guess I was lookin for a reply similar in size, but hey somethings can't be BS'ed I guess
btw the shading was done for better contrast only.
gps said:
Might this be your problem? Anything that does not look or play or smell like your blessed Civ III is not worth beeing called Civ and is of no benefit for Civfans at all???
Hey Im sorry but anything that isn't Civ the game isn't "civ per say", an thats really all I set out to say. Mybe you could have better grasped this without all the Civ3 premonitions you seem preoccupied with?
That whole speel, nothing derived from what I said! Why would I "rip it apart" I never said it from the start! But on your request, lets get this started .....
Lets start with the fact I never denied the benifts of this area in development.
Think, If Diablo was deluxe moddable to the point its forum spent 1 out of 10 posts like they do here, producing/testing a free Civ-like game for its software holders to enjoy, Would you say this had no benifit to some of these players?
gps said:
I prefer a handfull of good mods that really mod the game into something different (FFH, Final Frontier!) over thousands of Civ III Clones with preset map and three new units. But yeah, I forgot: it does not look or smell like Civ III, so it must be rubbish.
When you say "Preset" your referring to Scenarios not mods. Your right though, with Civ4's selection "Just a handfull" is all you can hope for when it comes to quality
See for me, that shows the 4ums big C+C problem. A handful of Fireaxis employess making a handful of great mods.
Not sure about these "PRESET" presumption you have. I think this statement rings with ill. familiarity towards Civ3.
Figure you would know about WarHammer, one of the Civ3's most popular mods with the same feel as "Hereos of Might and Magic 3". You might have heard of it. It was the other award winning turn based strategy besides Civ 3 at the time
Mixing both formulas stayed true to the original concept and brought in new ideas. Yet Civ3 still enjoyed the BEST OF BOTH WORLDS. Ontop of the 100's of orcs, dwarfs, and giants, Civ3 still offered Mods like Balancer Reloaded that feasted your AI vs AI enabled eyes on over 1000 REAL units equipt and come flavourfied.
Yes most new. Not this crap like you say ."..3 units in a clone format"
And man, What is a clone again? Is that another mod of the same quality and replayabilty value as the one you had just played before? Hmmm.. Well then, I think thats a good thing son!.
You can't be on about the same Civ3. The one where you start the days of Anno Domini mod and then go deeper on into the Middle Ages mod . WHere vassls take out any distance corrupton and pollution is recounted as disease in lead-up to devesting plague
Throughout all this time your seeing all original LH's, units, terrain and layout. THis is just a sample from off the pile! Certainly not seeing clones in the same way as someone else is through his exciting adventures in mod land
gps said:
Bottom line: I always thought 'Civ-Fanatics' to be a winking exaggeration. Obviously for some it's not. And now rip me to shreds if you like...
Still don't know how you base this. I was payin compliments to these feats in fantasy modding yet saying its distinct from other areas of traditinal civving that are still sorely lacking. So what?
From this Im some crazy 'fanatic' you're resonanting in negative light simply for noting distinct types of game type? Um you sure its not you whos the kook here?.. Just look at you laughing....creepy
Bottom line:
Its my belief that the improvment of historical epics is made possable through vast vats of user-created resources. Further more, A Great Modding secter is representive of many multitudes of era specific and culturaly diverse jouneys that stand the test of time.
If thats what you see only in civ3, then sure, call me a 'true' 'civ 'fanatic
ANd so this brings us to this: (@gps's following response was only to text in blue
)
Oh my god, YOU really kill me. Civ III as well as Civ IV are not historic epics, they are stupid little computer games that even now only a few stupid little geeks like you and me ARE actually interested in.
I notice you like to reley on 'blow up' in order to belittle strategy instead on straight facts. Kinda like your "blessed civ3" or 'This all means nothing in the big pic picture' remarks. But hey, What do ya have left in response to complete refutation.
Wait Sorry, if you think what I said above didn't refute
your idea on how civ3's longevity juice(mod) consists soley of 'clones' and '3 new unit' mods, then by all means, please comment..instead of belittle the fans or the entire industry lol!
.... but I'll continue to roll with facts rather then flagrent bs and misrepresention. I have after all done this throughout. I wish you would do the same, instead you do this.........
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gps said:
Go out on the streets and ask people if they are worried or upset by Firaxis changing the history making and art genre defining but slightly outdated Civ III 2d graphics to up-to-date but totally unbearable 3d graphics (thus ruining the greatest historic epic of the new millenia - sacrilege!!!
What the?
Dude wheres this come into play with my reasoning?
My god gps, what, with the name and all you'd think you'd be able to stay on track once in while
All I said on 2D vs 3d was 3D limited 'general involvement, hampered modding efforts and thus hindered the continuation of the series through modding the way Civ3 has. Let argue that inside a forum like hmm say 'civfanatics' instead of going up to strangers in the street
the majority probably won't even know what you're talking about.
That's how important Civ III and it's 2d graphics (and also Civ IV and it's 3ds) are.
WAit a minute PC players won't be familiar with civ3? Heres the list of ALL time games sold on wiki.
ANd heres
another source
In twenty years all hardware you could play it on will be crumbled to rusty bits and in fifty years they will be completely forgotten!
Ya and they said the same thing about pacman
The concept of sound strategy that plays smooth will never die for those who arn't dimwits.
Hey I guess Chess or Risk count as 'on the way out' aswell cuz on GPS's logic 'IN THE BIG PICTURE' the world may get hit by meteor therefor ending all further board games
Lets stay on track ok man?
That's not what I'd call a historic epic. Maybe you should try to get a focus on what REALLY matters in life. I'd do so before getting worked up so badly I couldn't enjoy it any more...
AHh here we go, finnaly you get to the point
AN EPIC is what in civ we call from 'dawn to the pinnacle'. IN civ3 the resources are so vast it can be broken down into 'ages' for greater historical context
I gave you examples of two mods that play up from caveman to Anno Domini then up to Middle age and pre industrial using over
200 techs inbetween. IN turn these techs spawn hundreds of cultrally specific types of information represented with higher rendering then original civ3 graphics.
I said everything that went in to these "epics' in regard to
units, leaders and
new concept have been created by users to refect historical simularitys during the specified time. Every pedia entry is complete. Your saying I am wrong..then laugh, next repley that were are receiving nothing of historic value from this "stupid game's modding advantages? Now Please explain Where MY statement went wrong again? lol
Good point though! 
