CIV 4 - AI Requests

For example, there could be different warfare strategies (stacks, all-out, flanks, diversions, artillery trap, etc...), different defensive strategies (front lines, city based, etc)

Hell, I'd be glad with just one civ AI type if it did all that.

Thing is, aside from running around between cities, will the AI do anything remotely tactical/strategic? The only 'tactic' Civ3's AI seems capable of performing is pillaging Roads connecting a rival's Resources. Aside from that, supposedly it also blocks trade choke points (although I have yet to see it do even that)...that's about it.
 
yoshi said:
Hell, I'd be glad with just one civ AI type if it did all that.

Thing is, aside from running around between cities, will the AI do anything remotely tactical/strategic? The only 'tactic' Civ3's AI seems capable of performing is pillaging Roads connecting a rival's Resources. Aside from that, supposedly it also blocks trade choke points (although I have yet to see it do even that)...that's about it.

Yeah I agree with that. But what I also meant is that, when all AIs behave in a similar way, its easy to find weaknesses and exploit them. There are many examples in Civ3. The result is that all of your games get pretty similar when you start to become good at the game.

The more different AIs use different stratgies, the more you would have to use different game plans depending on the AI civs, and this would make place for a great amount of diversity between each game. This could be very intersting in the making of civ4 GOTM's!
 
Good point. In Civ2, I've used events to add random factors into the mix so that the AI appears to be randomly making choices (e.g. random free unit/tech, random production 'golden ages' by giving AI more production, trade, food, etc.). I've also tried a bit of this using Civ3 (e.g. pre-placed unit-producing wonders, giving scientific characteristic to AI civs so they get random techs, having bonus resources randomly appear/disappear in AI terrain, etc.).

Yes, actually getting the different civs to really behave differently would be significantly more challenging, or at the very least make for more interesting gameplay.

Hopefully, aspects of AI behaviour will be controllable via scripting.
 
I like the different types of attacking/defending idea, although that's more to do with unit commands than an AI request, albiet with all new features, we HOPE Firaxis doesn't pull an SMAC and make sure the AI can use them too.

That said, I think the 'flavour' AI is probably best built by the modding community, who probably has the time and the resources available to really dig into unique behaviors and the like and constantly update their mods to adapt to human adaptations.

What I'd like to see from Firaxis' end is less to do with flavor AIs but just a more competent AI that makes for more interesting games. I don't completely agree with the idea that if the AI plays the same way, it gets old. Civ 3's AI like all TBS AI gets old because there's a lot of things it doesn't do well at all. After all the patches, the AI still doesn't understand how to use its 3 movement units. They storm into your territory, attack, and gets stuck out in the open waiting to be wiped out, whereas a human opponent would look for a thin spot in the border, use bombard units to soften the target, attack with their high movement units and make sure they have enough movement left to retreat into a city with barracks to heal and if that's not possible, the human players would build their own city for that purpose or bring lots of defensive units and stack their attackers behind it.

An AI that can do that would be hard to counter in the exploitative sense, the best a human player can do is adapt and build up sufficient defenses and combination of units to survive the attack, which of course implies costs, strategy, gambits and shrewness.

Imagine the couter system goes into Civ 4 (ie: pikes counter cavalry etc.). In order to properly defend their empire, players would need to figure out the shape of their opponent(s)' armies and build a defense to that and the AI is going to be doing the same thing. If the player has lots of Cavalry, they will build lots of pikes too. There may be more espionage involved and the like, but the adaptation that comes out of this is always lively and interesting. I have no doubt players will eventually develop rule of thumbs and 'catch all' defensive mixes that will do a job well, but the really good and dedicated players would want to go the extra mile and configure their defenses to more effectively counter the AI in THEIR GAME.

The AI of that order, which can build different unit combinations and which is going to hit you with combined arms when you go to war is going to be effective no matter how many games you play, you just have to pray your defenses and your intelligence on their unit type is good enough to stand up against their attack.

The most recent example of good AI coding that has altered the game is played is the upgrade of airpower in C3C with lethal bombard. The area where this has had the most effect is naval invasions. It takes much more planning to get it to work post C3C and I can still incur heavy losses of my escort fleet both from the improve AI warship rountines and lethal airbombard. There's no costless workaround or adaptation to that other than building lots of AA and having an airforce of your own, which is precisely the point the game should be moving players.

Adaptation with a price, rather than the exploitative sort of adaptation like the Artillery SoD, which to me seems to be the prescribed panacea to get out of every military disadvantage.
 
better ai bombing. sometimes they bomb the cities over and over again, and there is nothing left to bomb, or they bomb the most insignifant buildings
 
So here we are. We finally have some info about the game. :)

Has anybody run a cross check between what we've been told and the kinds of stuff discussed in this thread last year?


dexters said:
v0.04
last updated: Feb 06, 2005

Preamble
--------------
Borrowed from Sirian's post in the thread below
Improving the AI isn't just about making it more competitive. There is also making it behave more in line with the game's context.
AI is part of the experience. It's not just about winning... The AI impacts the "atmosphere". The more life the game maker can breathe into his or her design, the more engaging the game could be...The difficulty levels exist to hand the AI a handicap so it can continue to provide a fun experience even ...THE AI IMPACTS EVERYBODY. It's the partner, the opponent, the rival, the animation of gameplay.
 
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