Civ 7 idea: depletable resources

[DeckerdJames]

Suppose you have a large inland sea. Civilizations will put harbors into the sea and it collects resources. Whatever the sea may give, the harbor may collect. The collection rate improves throughout the eras. However, too many civilizations with advanced technology may deplete resources. Perhaps a certain seafood delicacy becomes rare and expensive. On the open ocean, some creatures such as the whales may be endangered. A very small lake might provide food for one, two or even three cities.

When you mouse over a lake or other kind of depletable resource, after what it might say in kilograms or tonnage, the bottom line is how many turns remaining before the resources are depleted.

 

[cain3456]

Oh no. OH HELL NO. We had that in Civ3 and people hated. That's one feature that's never coming back.

 

[Quintillus]

Yeah, that was part of Civ3. Certain resources could deplete. Start training a bunch of knights in shining armor, when all of a sudden your iron mine depletes, and you can't build any more shining armor, just good old-fashioned horsemen with much weaker stats. The goal was probably to have it be an interesting challenge to overcome, but it could also be an un-fun surprise.

The only way I could see it working in a less unfun way would be if depletion rate was tied to consumption, and there were adequate techs that enabled new deposits to be found. And probably adequate trade and resource storage mechanisms to allow partial offsetting of any depletion through peaceful means.

Civ IV made whales, a luxury resource, go obsolete in the late industrial period to simulate their overfishing (over-mammaling?). This was never as controversial as it was highly predictable, and by then you usually had adequate sources of happiness that the loss of whales wouldn't cause massive problems the way losing your iron or oil could in Civ3.

Overall, I think Civ would have to lean a lot more into the "resource management" side than it has so far for resource depletion to work, and balancing would have to be very good, especially as it affects strategic resources. Even for something like over-fishing, a logical extension of the deforestation mechanics that Civ does feature, how to model it in a way that feels fair in-game would be a challenge.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Civ IV made whales, a luxury resource, go obsolete in the late industrial period to simulate their overfishing (over-mammaling?). This was never as controversial as it was highly predictable, and by then you usually had adequate sources of happiness that the loss of whales wouldn't cause massive problems the way losing your iron or oil could in Civ3.

Overall, I think Civ would have to lean a lot more into the "resource management" side than it has so far for resource depletion to work, and balancing would have to be very good, especially as it affects strategic resources. Even for something like over-fishing, a logical extension of the deforestation mechanics that Civ does feature, how to model it in a way that feels fair in-game would be a challenge.

I always envisioned there might be a kind of Conservation "Emergency" in the World Congress, and by emergency I mean competition, that could require you to plant forests and remove fishing boats and camps for points. The trade-off would be a boost of science on those tiles and more amenities for National Parks.
Maybe a similar idea could tie into resource depletion in the future?

 

[pokiehl]

Oh no. OH HELL NO. We had that in Civ3 and people hated. That's one feature that's never coming back.

I agree with you. Resource depletion is just an unfun mechanic all around.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

Civ IV made whales, a luxury resource, go obsolete in the late industrial period to simulate their overfishing (over-mammaling?). This was never as controversial as it was highly predictable

I thought it was meant to simulate changing public attitudes but yes this was a good mechanic as it was predictable.

 

[aieeegrunt]

Yeah, that was part of Civ3. Certain resources could deplete. Start training a bunch of knights in shining armor, when all of a sudden your iron mine depletes, and you can't build any more shining armor, just good old-fashioned horsemen with much weaker stats. The goal was probably to have it be an interesting challenge to overcome, but it could also be an un-fun surprise.

The only way I could see it working in a less unfun way would be if depletion rate was tied to consumption, and there were adequate techs that enabled new deposits to be found. And probably adequate trade and resource storage mechanisms to allow partial offsetting of any depletion through peaceful means.

Civ IV made whales, a luxury resource, go obsolete in the late industrial period to simulate their overfishing (over-mammaling?). This was never as controversial as it was highly predictable, and by then you usually had adequate sources of happiness that the loss of whales wouldn't cause massive problems the way losing your iron or oil could in Civ3.

Overall, I think Civ would have to lean a lot more into the "resource management" side than it has so far for resource depletion to work, and balancing would have to be very good, especially as it affects strategic resources. Even for something like over-fishing, a logical extension of the deforestation mechanics that Civ does feature, how to model it in a way that feels fair in-game would be a challenge.

Ya it took the ridiculous nonsense that is how strategics are handled in the Civ series and somehow made it worse, which is quite an achievement

 

[Saxo Grammaticus]

I can see finite resources generating their own strategic implications. Expansion flows from exhausted deposits to new ones. In Civ VI this could be as simple as the coal icon and associated yields leaving behind a mine. The loss of resource tiles could render a city irrelevant or free up space for district synergies.

Fishing and maritime cities go well with depletion. Perhaps one city on a body of water enjoys tremendous growth, but at some threshold of cities or population this proves unsustainable with food yields declining. This could happen to inland seas and oceans alike. As it stands, maritime cities largely improve with time, so this would introduce a window for exploitation of the sea and pressure to convert that growth into strategic goals.

Resource depletion would push the player to seek new sources, generating conflict, as well as to reevaluate trade, conservation, and city management. That said, it could be less successful in terms of rolling starts and the builder play-style. When there is no guarantee of starting iron, it would be little consolation to find a shallow deposit. Infinite resources allow a player less pressure to engage in conflict or even expand.

Quintillus hits the nail on the head by highlighting Civilization's lack of commitment to resource management mechanics. I think 4X can absorb a lot of different mechanics, but the question is at what cost?

 

[Naokaukodem]

Well it's not only about modern industrial fishing but also about why hunters-gatherers moved and maybe also migrated. (population pressure, even at those times : a small tribe needed a lot of territory to survive, but that's before complete colonization of Homo Sapiens so maybe not concerning Civ, unless the migration is replaced by local conflicts)

Nature regenerate itself, so if we stop gathering its fruits and go elsewhere, we can move back a little later. Actually is this within the scope of Civ game, because IRL I think hs-gs just moved according to the seasons and might have been fine by it.

Still, resource depletion could be a thing, I suggested a day to a modder who wanted to make a prehistoric Civ4 MOD to use the Civ4 Cottages programs to mimic depletion : with time, the resource grows, and it reduces when you "pillage" it. If you pillage it to 0, it disappears forever. The more you let layers of abundance, the fastest it renews. We could even see pre-agricultural behaviors like uproot the plants that are not useful around the interesting ones, so that it can grow even better and bigger. That could be an experimental thing to be done by workers or gatherers eventhough there is no evidence of that in History ?

Man, I'm growing more and more convinced that the next Civ game will be limited to the ancient eras.