Civ 7 - why doesn't it look or feel like Civ?

[SeelingCat]

Interesting stats on modding, taken from these very forums:

As a Civ6 modder, I'd take this with a grain of salt. A lot of the conversation that would have happened on these forums in the days of Civ4 and earlier have moved to Discord servers and the Steam workshop.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

We don't know how many civs will be in the game, how many options we will actually get when faced with a switch, how the crises and end of an Age will play out, how the beginning of a new Age will work, whether there are options to limit civ switching to historically relevant civs only, whether there will be some civs with multiple versions (e.g. an exploration Spain and a modern Spain).

Realistically I don't see an exploration Spain and a modern Spain, in the same game. People for years have already been complaining about Civ being Eurocentric and I can only imagine the negativity if two versions of Spain get in.
If Spain is Exploration age, which I think it will, it will probably branch into Argentina/Mexico (whatever Spanish speaking postcolonial nation) in the Modern Age. If Spain happens to be modern for some reason, maybe Al-Andalus finally makes an appearance.

 

[Turrdy]

Firaxis shared their design philosophy in the gameplay reveal video...1/3 the same, 1/3 new and 1/3 reworked.

And I'd answer your question with another question, why make a new iteration if you're not going to try something new?

Ah yes the rule of thirds.
Question is: Which parts of the game go into the "same" bucket, which go in the "new" bucket, and which go in the "reworked" bucket?
Choose poorly and your next game will be a mess!

 

[Bridog7]

If feels like Civ to me. The UI is basically a new look of Civ VI. It feels very much to me like Civ VI

 

[Gareth44]

As a Civ6 modder, I'd take this with a grain of salt. A lot of the conversation that would have happened on these forums in the days of Civ4 and earlier have moved to Discord servers and the Steam workshop.

I have looked on Civ 6 and 5 Steam workshops and found no decent total conversion mods. Like, at all. Some attempts for 5, but none to the levels of Civ4. I'd bet if I look on Discord, I'd find the same there. Compare this to the moddabilty of, say, Stellaris, you see how Civ moves away from quality storytelling; like going from a deep novel series to a children's coloring book. History is supposed to be compelling, surprising, and cruel; achievements and failure just around the corner. Let's see if Civ7 regains that feeling.

 

[SeelingCat]

That's wholly unrelated to the amount of threads/messages in a forum, though. And to correlate moddability with storytelling seems bizarre to me. If a game had quality storytelling, why would there be more total conversion mods? Wouldn't a total conversion mod suggest a desire to move away from the game's base "story."

I agree that the number of total conversion mods has decreased since the days of Civ 4 and earlier, but I'd chalk that up to it being harder to do the kind of 3d art that's required for that with the more recent games' graphics, and how much of the game's base code was accessible to modders and when, but not anything to do with the storytelling quality of the game.

 

[Mr. Man]

it's the price we pay for navigable rivers

 

[Willie5000]

That's wholly unrelated to the amount of threads/messages in a forum, though. And to correlate moddability with storytelling seems bizarre to me. If a game had quality storytelling, why would there be more total conversion mods? Wouldn't a total conversion mod suggest a desire to move away from the game's base "story."

I agree that the number of total conversion mods has decreased since the days of Civ 4 and earlier, but I'd chalk that up to it being harder to do the kind of 3d art that's required for that with the more recent games' graphics, and how much of the game's base code was accessible to modders and when, but not anything to do with the storytelling quality of the game.

I mean, there was ONE interesting sci-fi total conversion mod for Civ V that Firaxis made themselves.

Except they also had the gall to sell it as if it were a full priced game. And they called it “Beyond Earth”.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Don't let Big Pharma Webstreamer get away with this atrocity!!!!!!

 

[Fluphen Azine]

Spiff complained that it was an economy class flight... It's not like they rolled out the red carpet for these fellows, but rather it was a business trip. No $1000 dinners with luxurious hotels and swag bags full of cash.

Most of these guys to a lot of games on their channels and sure, they're not going to come out and be highly dismissive of things, but Spiff and Potato in their discussion weren't all hyped for all the new stuff, but were mostly cautiously optimistic about things.

Spiff literally bashed the BBG Mod and CPL Community lol.

 

[DWilson]

I mean, there was ONE interesting sci-fi total conversion mod for Civ V that Firaxis made themselves.

Except they also had the gall to sell it as if it were a full priced game. And they called it “Beyond Earth”.

I loved Civ BERT, but I was the exception to an extent

Remember that the V DLL was a later release (ultimately leading to Vox Populi), while they decided to never release it for VI

 

[TheGrayFox]

Don't let Big Pharma Webstreamer get away with this atrocity!!!!!!

It's just weird to me how willing some people are to die on the hill of defending paid advertisers from the accusation of bias.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

It's just weird to me how willing some people are to die on the hill of defending paid advertisers from the accusation of bias.

I just think it's less corruption or whatever and more that they like the game naturally or they wouldn't have gotten into what they're doing. And yeah part of their living is going to hinge on people playing the game. I'm sure they are likely to be more positive than a lot, but it's kind of insuting to them to assume that it's because they've been paid off.

 

[Thormodr]

If feels like Civ to me. The UI is basically a new look of Civ VI. It feels very much to me like Civ VI

Seems a lot more like 5. Not Civ VI.

 

[TheGrayFox]

I just think it's less corruption or whatever and more that they like the game naturally or they wouldn't have gotten into what they're doing. And yeah part of their living is going to hinge on people playing the game. I'm sure they are likely to be more positive than a lot, but it's kind of insuting to them to assume that it's because they've been paid off.

So we really are going to double down on the hilltop of defending paid advertisers who get free flights, hotel rooms, and early access rights to video games from corportations specifically to advertise them from accusations of bias.....

Do I have to remind everyone that the same people we're defending did the same song and dance during Humankind's pre-release as well?

 

[Thormodr]

I just think it's less corruption or whatever and more that they like the game naturally or they wouldn't have gotten into what they're doing. And yeah part of their living is going to hinge on people playing the game. I'm sure they are likely to be more positive than a lot, but it's kind of insuting to them to assume that it's because they've been paid off.

No one is suggesting, or at I least I don't think so, that they have been paid off.

I said to just approach them with a healthy dose of skepticism/mountain of salt. They even disclose that they were flown in and everything was paid for so it's not like they were trying to hide it. They know what they say could be perceived as biased. I think for the most part they were pretty evenhanded and generally tiptoed around the Civ switching which is the real elephant in the room.

I have watched most of these content creators and admire their hustle to get where they are.

Just be aware, that's all.

Looking forward to the gameplay.

 

[ombak]

It's just weird to me how willing some people are to die on the hill of defending paid advertisers from the accusation of bias.

Who has claimed they're unbiased? The ceaseless repetition of these generic warnings is not as insightful as some seem to think it is.

It's useful to point this stuff out to naïve people, whether they're naïve because they're young or lack experience with this kind of bias, or because they weren't given critical thinking tools with which to evaluate sources or guard oneself against out potential conflicts of interest or bias.

Great. That's done. Now what? Repeating it for several posts and pages later isn't smart or "right", it's just a cynical gainsaying that silences actual conversation. Especially because, guess what, you can check out their opinions for yourself. And, armed with your special knowledge and your ability as a human to listen, gauge people's reactions and behavior and make up your own mind, you can come to your own conclusion about what they said, whether it is sufficient to defeat your scepticism for claims A through Z they make, or whether you actually disbelieve what they're saying.

Also, you don't have to watch their video and listen to their opinion. I certainly haven't been able to watch every video I would like to from people who have played the game so far, it's not an obligation. But since the video is there, a repetitive chorus of "they're biased" just gets tiresome and merits a "mocking spongebob" sort of response.

 

[Thormodr]

So we really are going to double down on the hilltop of defending paid advertisers who get free flights, hotel rooms, and early access rights to video games from corportations specifically to advertise them from accusations of bias.....

Do I have to remind everyone that the same people we're defending did the same song and dance during Humankind's pre-release as well?

Did they universally adore the dud that was Humankind?

Anyway, content creators usually are pretty good. The big gaming media companies who slap an automatic 90%+ on any AAA gaming title, though.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

No one is suggesting, or at I least I don't think so, that they have been paid off.

I said to just approach them with a healthy dose of skepticism/mountain of salt. They even disclose that they were flown in and everything was paid for so it's not like they were trying to hide it. They know what they say could be perceived as biased. I think for the most part they were pretty evenhanded and generally tiptoed around the Civ switching which is the real elephant in the room.

I have watched most of these content creators and admire their hustle to get where they are.

Just be aware, that's all.

Looking forward to the gameplay.

Yeah most of what I've seen has been pretty matter-of-fact "this is what I saw." And yeah as with everything I wouldn't take one or two reviews/opinions about anything as gospel. But all of the "I don't believe anything they say!" is strange.

 

[TheGrayFox]

Did they universally adore the dud that was Humankind?

Anyway, content creators usually are pretty good. The big gaming media companies who slap an automatic 90%+ on any AAA gaming title, though.

Pretty much the same exact song and dance. General optimism for the game and its new innovations with only a relative few "concerns" about how some of those changes to the tried and true formula might play out.