Thanks to the information on this site I've been able to kick my bad habits (mainly Civ 3 style of play) and progress to higher difficulty levels. I can beat noble most of the time, and hang in the higher levels but rarely win. I've been using the Americans since people suggest that financial and organized are the two strongest traits, but they don't have a strong early game military unit or a good combination of starting techs. Are there better Civ choices for higher levels? What does everyone else use?
Civ choices for higher levels
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Try the Romans. Praetorians are dumb. In vanilla (non-Warlords), the Russian Cossaks are over-powered too; I like Cathy's traits better than Peter's. Huayna can be strong if you take a hyper-aggressive approach in the very early game and overrun an AI captial with Quechua. And Elizabeth has good traits and a reasonably strong UU. Personally I use random leaders most of the time....
peace,
lilnev
peace,
lilnev
Play to your strengths. Different people will use different traits to different effect. If you know you tend to do particular strategies, use leaders who will complement that.
Higher levels of play are acquired through skill and awareness of the game's mechanics, not leader traits. Even leader traits that prove easy "break-in" civs for some are not suitable for others.
For instance, I favor Isabel and Mehmed for Expansive, and Napoleon for Charismatic/Organized.
Higher levels of play are acquired through skill and awareness of the game's mechanics, not leader traits. Even leader traits that prove easy "break-in" civs for some are not suitable for others.
For instance, I favor Isabel and Mehmed for Expansive, and Napoleon for Charismatic/Organized.
Harbourboy
Deity
The most overpowered civ is generally accepted by many people to be the Incans. So if you want to have a go at a new high level, you might want to try them out first. Financial + Industrious + a unique unit that is useful right from the start against the unit that AI starts with at high levels (Quechua vs Archers) = a powerful combination at Prince and above.
Interesting, I had thought Industrious would be useless on higher level since you rarely build wonders? My main problem is failure to mobilize for war correctly, usually because I don't traverse the tech tree correctly and I get sucked into building up economy.
The wonders you DO build (Mostly thinking SE) can be ones that take a lot of turns to produce. The Pyramids take a huge investment in the early game. The Great Library is pretty expensive. The Statue of Liberty is really a pain unless you have a great engineer saved up. It also may give you a decent shot at the Great Wall (Which could help produce said engineer) which is nice if there are a lot of barbs around. It's really a pain when you are rushing axes to take a city, send them in one direction, and then you are forced to divert your resources to fighting the five archers swarming your capital and pillaging your resources. The Parthenon can be good too to increase your GP rate.
The Great Library and Statue of Liberty are pretty much Non-Negotiable.
I forget though, does industrious double the speed of National Wonders?
I believe it does. Cheaper National Wonders and cheap Forges are the real strengths of Industrious. I consider National Wonders to be more important than World Wonders.
Definitely. With an Industrious civ, Great Wall or Pyramids are usually the only wonders I'll "hard-build". After that I use a GE to pop Metal Casting, then get forges up extremely early. After that your production goes through the roof, and you can easily overwhelm a neighbor. You can also use the forges to continue generating GEs if you so choose.
I find the Inca to be way too "cheesy" and I never play with them. I have been having a lot of success with Peter. (Similar to above strategy; the forges aren't cheaper, but the GE comes twice as fast.) Most people would consider Peter a pretty poor leader, but he fits my style.
As someone else said, traits aren't going make or break the game at higher levels. It's more a matter of knowing how to properly exploit whatever traits and resources you do have. (Although Protective is decidedly weak.)
I recommend going with random leaders for a while. It will help you determine what your preferred playstyle is, and then you may decide on a leader. Or you may end up always going random, like I do. Playing the same leaders all the time makes the game boring to me.
Phrederick
Warlord
So? Financial is a very good trait, the UU is extremely powerful, and the UB is really helpful for building culture in conquered cities. Even though the main bonus of Industrious is weaker on higher levels where it's harder to build a lot of wonders, it's still a good bonus due to nat'l wonders, cheap forges, and since most games you'll still build a couple wonders.
carl corey
Deity
Hmm, I just moved up to Emperor and won two of my games with Industrious leaders. I literally spammed wonders in both those games. I'd argue that Industrious is still very much useful at Emperor.
apparatus, you don't need a specific civ to make it to Prince/Monarch level. I've won games with almost all leaders on these levels (not all just because I haven't tried all). Take a look at Sisiutil's "All Leaders Challenge" series, as some of them are on Prince, some on Monarch, and each game tries to showcase a civ's unique set of characteristics. If you want, try first those that have good early unique units (Incas, Persia, Egypt, Romans for example), but don't let a later UU deter you from enjoying the others.
carl corey
Deity
I'm not really of the same opinion. As long as you vary your leaders often enough there's nothing wrong in trying different strategies with one leader. It helps you refine your play, find the leader's strengths and weaknesses.
But yeah, I know the Tokugawa effect.
I was getting my but kicked on Emperor and moved back to Monarch/Pangaea (map I almost never play normally) and kicked everybody's teeth. I was expanding so fast I had to switch from farms & mines to working unimproved tiles with one commerce on them just so as I didn't go broke. Anyway, I know Toku is one guy that will make me love Civ IV again whenever I'm in need of that.
But yeah, I know the Tokugawa effect.
I was getting my but kicked on Emperor and moved back to Monarch/Pangaea (map I almost never play normally) and kicked everybody's teeth. I was expanding so fast I had to switch from farms & mines to working unimproved tiles with one commerce on them just so as I didn't go broke. Anyway, I know Toku is one guy that will make me love Civ IV again whenever I'm in need of that.futurehermit
Deity
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Toku rocks. I used to play him all the time when he was agg-org. Unfortunately, I haven't played him much in warlords because of the protective trait, which I consider to be the weakest trait (moreso now than imperialistic)
Technically, futurehermit the Organized trait only kicks in when you use really expensive civics and have very high populations or lots of cities (or whatever factor affect Civic cost).
I don't think that Protective is all that unplayable, particularly on Toku. At least you've got Aggressive and a decent UU and UB to work with.
I don't think that Protective is all that unplayable, particularly on Toku. At least you've got Aggressive and a decent UU and UB to work with.
Phrederick
Warlord
I was trying to show that the rest of the Incan package was superb, notwithstanding what you think of industrious. Personally, I think it's a middle tier trait because I tend not to build many wonders, but people who like building more wonders may rate it higher than me.
Well protective is kinda crappish, except that all your CR III samurai will automatically get added drill I and city garrison promotion when you turn them into grenadiers
Doesn't hurt drafted rifles/infantry either 
It's all about the courthouses, baby. The courthouses.
And shouldn't everyone at least try to get high populations and lots of cities
The organized civic cost reduction is very valuable for large late medieval/renaissance running organized religion/bureaucracy.Of course it is. "It's the economy stupid," is a oft-bandied catch phrase.
That said, I don't think that Tokugawa has been made completely unworkable just because he's changed from Organized to Protective. His Aggressive trait is still there and still useful, and Aggressive pairs well with Protective, moreso than other traits, IMO.
That said, I don't think that Tokugawa has been made completely unworkable just because he's changed from Organized to Protective. His Aggressive trait is still there and still useful, and Aggressive pairs well with Protective, moreso than other traits, IMO.
I'm not well placed to argue about tokugawa's strength in warlords since i never played him, but if I had to play him, I'd try to draft mountains of rifles (or even muskets) for the free combat 1, drill, CG 1 .
To the OP : A few questions.
1) what do you call high levels?
prince is a medium level, monarch arguably too.
2) what do you expect?
if you want an early UU able to crush your neighbours, I suggest playing one of those leaders :
- augustus or JC
- Cyrus
- Huyna capac
Be aware that the praets require iron, the immortals require horses and the quechua require your enemy to rely on archers (which is exactly what the AI does
)
3) what's your goal?
- winning a deity game? as cheesy as it may be? play a duel map with huyna capac. build quechuas. win.
- improving your skills? You're better off playing various leaders and trying to max out their potential.
- having fun? Play on a level where you're somewhat challenged with various settings/players for a renewed experience without needing a climb in the levels.
.To the OP : A few questions.
1) what do you call high levels?
prince is a medium level, monarch arguably too.
2) what do you expect?
if you want an early UU able to crush your neighbours, I suggest playing one of those leaders :
- augustus or JC
- Cyrus
- Huyna capac
Be aware that the praets require iron, the immortals require horses and the quechua require your enemy to rely on archers (which is exactly what the AI does
)3) what's your goal?
- winning a deity game? as cheesy as it may be? play a duel map with huyna capac. build quechuas. win.
- improving your skills? You're better off playing various leaders and trying to max out their potential.
- having fun? Play on a level where you're somewhat challenged with various settings/players for a renewed experience without needing a climb in the levels.
