Civ Discussion - Carthage

Based on Firaxis' post on the upcoming update Urban Centers are indeed getting a big update. Carthage (and anybody else, but that's who we're focused on here) can now use that specialization to purchase libraries, monuments, baths, and maybe some other buildings. That strikes me as a big positive for Carthage and should make the science legacy path a lot more achievable.

Its interesting because now Carthage will actually have MORE ways to slot relics than a typical civ no?
 
Everyone will have access to Urban Centers as a town specialization
Yes, but Carthage also gets slots from Trade Outposts after you research their final civic.
It’s interesting because now Carthage will actually have MORE ways to slot relics than a typical civ no?
On paper, if we just count all the possible sources of slots - then yes.

Whether it’s practically useful remains to be seen - for example, we don’t know if Urban Districts will also allow building Academies (3 more slots), or it’s limited to Libraries only.
 
Its interesting because now Carthage will actually have MORE ways to slot relics than a typical civ no?
My guess is no... I don't think Urban Centers will be able to buy academies, and any town that is an urban center loses Carthage's potential extra codex slots from being trading posts. if you make every town an urban center with a library, maybe you could match the average civ for slots (but do you really want *every* town to be an urban center?).
 
My guess is no... I don't think Urban Centers will be able to buy academies, and any town that is an urban center loses Carthage's potential extra codex slots from being trading posts. if you make every town an urban center with a library, maybe you could match the average civ for slots (but do you really want *every* town to be an urban center?).

So they make some trading towns, some urban centers and now they have more towns that can build libraries than others have cities than can.
 
So they make some trading towns, some urban centers and now they have more towns that can build libraries than others have cities than can.
The settlement cap is still a thing so it's not like Carthage is going to be at an advantage in empire size, and while Carthage may have more towns every other civ has more cities and thus more libraries and academies. Plus it's not like urban centers are unique to Carthage - every other civ can use them too.
 
Yes, but Carthage also gets slots from Trade Outposts after you research their final civic.
Unfortunately, this is bugged since last patch ! I just played antiquity with Carthage, and researched that civic, then switched all my towns to Trade outposts, and the slot for codex in those towns never showed up ! Looked it up on reddit, and it's been reported as a bug since last patch
 
The settlement cap is still a thing so it's not like Carthage is going to be at an advantage in empire size, and while Carthage may have more towns every other civ has more cities and thus more libraries and academies. Plus it's not like urban centers are unique to Carthage - every other civ can use them too.
Several thing here. Carthage produces double settlers, which means it could pop settlements faster. Also, Carthage is on the upper end for settlement cap as it gets +2 from civics. Other than that, Carthage usually produces a lot of money, making it easy to buy those things in towns. Finally, Academy is a pretty late building, so it doesn't affect science as much as libraries.

What really hinders Carthage is that you usually wants your antiquity towns to grow and if specialize them early, you'll get your capital bumped enormously, but towns themselves will remain undeveloped. On the other hand, maybe it's not that bad, as you could start actively using specialists right in antiquity and get science from them.
 
Several thing here. Carthage produces double settlers, which means it could pop settlements faster. Also, Carthage is on the upper end for settlement cap as it gets +2 from civics. Other than that, Carthage usually produces a lot of money, making it easy to buy those things in towns. Finally, Academy is a pretty late building, so it doesn't affect science as much as libraries.

What really hinders Carthage is that you usually wants your antiquity towns to grow and if specialize them early, you'll get your capital bumped enormously, but towns themselves will remain undeveloped. On the other hand, maybe it's not that bad, as you could start actively using specialists right in antiquity and get science from them.
Well it's not really about the science, it's about the codex slots... the original post this was in response to suggested that Carthage would now have more codex slots than any other civ. A city with a library and an academy has 5 slots. Carthage is going to need three towns, all with an urban center specialization and a library, to beat that. And sure, colonists can help with that, but all I'm saying is that I don't think Carthage has any real advantage in terms of codex slots with the upcoming changes to urban centers.
 
Well it's not really about the science, it's about the codex slots... the original post this was in response to suggested that Carthage would now have more codex slots than any other civ. A city with a library and an academy has 5 slots. Carthage is going to need three towns, all with an urban center specialization and a library, to beat that. And sure, colonists can help with that, but all I'm saying is that I don't think Carthage has any real advantage in terms of codex slots with the upcoming changes to urban centers.
Placing codices for science victory is not a problem at all. You need to place 10 for maximum reward, which means the city plus 5 towns. In my latest Carthage game I let my towns grow till near end, and then just converted them to trade posts.

In that game I was able to rush through science tree with city-states. Without it, Carthage would need to rely more on urban centers.
 
Placing codices for science victory is not a problem at all. You need to place 10 for maximum reward, which means the city plus 5 towns. In my latest Carthage game I let my towns grow till near end, and then just converted them to trade posts.

In that game I was able to rush through science tree with city-states. Without it, Carthage would need to rely more on urban centers.
That is one thing, with Urban centers (2 slots) Carthage’s ability is a worse form of it
For science victory
urban center:
+Science output
+2 slots
-must buy Library per settlement

Carthage civic
+available at no extra cost per settlement
-requires civic research
-only 1 slot

Basically Urban Centers takes Cathage's civic and gives every civ a (slightly better) version of it.
 
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Placing codices for science victory is not a problem at all. You need to place 10 for maximum reward, which means the city plus 5 towns. In my latest Carthage game I let my towns grow till near end, and then just converted them to trade posts.

In that game I was able to rush through science tree with city-states. Without it, Carthage would need to rely more on urban centers.
Again, that's not what I'm saying.

A poster earlier in the thread suggested Carthage would have more codex slots than any other civ in the game. I disagree. That's all. It's not about whether or not they can get enough to finish the science legacy path, which clearly Carthage is already more than capable of doing. My original point was just that no, an urban center buff doesn't really give them any advantage here.
 
I agree with those who think Carthage isn't among the top civilizations of Antiquity, but it's still fun to play due to its unique features. It has quite a few drawbacks, many of which have already been discussed, but for me, there's also the loss of the option to launch with multiple cities in the Age of Exploration. From my point of view, this is aggravated because it's not easy to start with 3,000 gold to convert towns into cities and produce or buy some ships in the firt turns . Although Carthage generates a decent amount of gold per turn, it would like to spend more than it earns. This is necessary to have unique districts before the end of the Age (and with Augustus, monuments), Numandian cavalry, etc. but it has a negative impact at the beginnig of the next Age. The option of gold academies isn't viable either. Strong points have already been discussed, such as the settlement limit, which can easily be brought to 13 at the start of the Age of Exploration, or the unique districts that persist, but the drawbacks are just as obvious.
 
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