Civ Discussion - Rome

[bengalryan9]

Our final antiquity age civilization to discuss is Rome. Rome is a cultural and militaristic civilization with a starting bias towards grassland. Their associated wonder is the Colosseum, an ageless wonder that gives a base +3 culture, plus +2 happiness on quarters in the settlement. Rome unlocks the Normans and Spanish in the Exploration Age, and America, Britain, France, and Prussia in the modern age.

Their unique ability is Twelve Tables, which gives +1 culture on districts in the capital and to city centers in towns.
Their unique military unit is the Legion, a spearman replacement that gives +1 CS for every Roman tradition slotted in the government (it used to be +2, IIRC).
Their unique civilian unit is the Legatus, a commander that gains a charge to create a settlement with every three levels it has.
Their unique buildings are the Temple of Jupiter (+3 base happiness, and +1 culture for each adjacent happiness building and wonder) and the Basilica (+4 base gold, and +1 influence for each adjacent culture building and wonder). Together they form the unique quarter known as the Forum, which gives +1 gold and +1 culture for every Roman tradition slotted into the government.

Roman civics are:
Exercitus Romanus – unlocks the Temple of Jupiter, the Auxilia tradition, and at mastery gives the Legatus the Bulwark promotion for free
Civis Romanus – unlocks the Basilica, the Cursus Honorum tradition, and at mastery gives +2 gold in the capital for every town
Legatus Pro Praetore – unlocks the Latinitas tradition, gives a free infantry unit in every settlement you found, and +1 settlement limit
Senatus Populusque Romanus – unlocks the Colosseum, the Princeps Civitatis tradition, gives +1 social policy slot, and +1 settlement limit

Roman traditions are:
Auxilia – gives +50% production towards military units in the capital for every town
Cursus Honorum – training an infantry unit grants culture equal to 25% of its production cost
Latinitas - +10% food, gold, and culture in towns with a specialization
Princeps Civitatis - +1 production on urban districts in the capital

What are your thoughts on the Romans? Strong? Weak? Areas to buff/nerf? What leaders do you like to choose when playing as the Romans, what legacy paths do you like to go down, and which civs are you looking to transition to in future ages?

 

[Lord Lakely]

Pretty solid Civ. It's a good amount of culture which pairs really well into Spanish and Normans in Exploration. Bulwark is one of my favourite promitions in the game as well, which really helps you defend yourself from invasions. In general, Rome feels like the defensive counterpart to Persia, spamming cities everywhere and defending from Invasion, rather than going out of their way to conquer enemies.

The two real MVP things about Rome for me are the Influence adjacency from the Basilica and the Spain unlock which is hard to get otherwise. More influence and unlocking one of the best Exploration Civs while being solid and reliable, what's not to like?

As far as leaders Rome wants to have: Any science leader, like Lovelace or Catherine to shore up the pathetic research, followed by militaristic leaders that can leverage the legatus to their advantage like Oblique Freddy, Tubman and Trung Trac. Lafayette is theoretically also a good pick because his bonuses stack with the Legion, but he has a rougher time - conquering with Cav is much easier than conquering with Infantry is., but there is some tradition synergy.

Augustus is, as he often is, a top choice too, because Latinitas plays well into Urban Centres and Princeps Civitatis synergizes with the bonus Production of his ability. and ofc because he's Augustus.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

As far as leaders Rome wants to have: Any science leader, like Lovelace or Catherine to shore up the pathetic research, followed by militaristic leaders that can leverage the legatus to their advantage like Oblique Freddy, Tubman and Trung Trac. Lafayette is theoretically also a good pick because his bonuses stack with the Legion, but he has a rougher time - conquering with Cav is much easier than conquering with Infantry is., but there is some tradition synergy.

Augustus is, as he often is, a top choice too, because Latinitas plays well into Urban Centres and Princeps Civitatis synergizes with the bonus Production of his ability. and ofc because he's Augustus.

Just one note to an excellent summary:
Trung Trac has an added bonus playing Rome in that the first Legatus immediately gets 3 promotions from her, which means he can run right out and plop down a new Settlement. Several times this has given me a running start at expanding to a particularly good spot for my 2nd settlement before the AI civs have gotten their first colonist(s) or settler out the door.

 

[Lord Lakely]

Just one note to an excellent summary:
Trung Trac has an added bonus playing Rome in that the first Legatus immediately gets 3 promotions from her, which means he can run right out and plop down a new Settlement. Several times this has given me a running start at expanding to a particularly good spot for my 2nd settlement before the AI civs have gotten their first colonist(s) or settler out the door.

four. She gets the free commendation if you research the civic before discipline.

She gets them in Bastion too which is a great tree to maximize. Trung Trac's legions simply do not die.

 

[Leucarum]

Alongside Khmer this is the antiquity era civ I never want to play. I genuinely enjoy the other 9 so it's not a complaint. Rome just feels bland to me. Any time I can imagine a game with Rome I can imagine a more fun game with someone else. There's nothing bad, they're solid, just not for me.

 

[Navelgazer]

I'm not sure it's possible to design a version of Rome in this series that's not going to feel a little bit bland just by virtue of being Rome in a Civ game - it's kind of the Mario option no matter what you do. That said, I think they did a nice job with this one. It wants to play wide, and supports that playstyle well. What's funny is that, I think, if you want a wide empire by conquest, Persia does that better, and if you want a wide empire by rapid settlement, Carthage does that better. But Rome as a whole is stronger than either of them, by being quite good at both. (Additionally, Khmer also does the "wide empire/tall capital" thing, but not "better," at least in my opinion.) In any case, Rome is solid and flexible, while still having a pretty clear gameplan in mind. And their design fits the RP immersion for them, which is nice.

It should be noted that the Forum bonus is +1 gold & culture for each "Unique Tradition" slotted, according to the civilopedia. This is a pretty minor bonus later on, but does at least apply to traditions earned from Exploration and Modern ages (I believe.)

They've got some great unlocks (Spain and France being my personal favorites) and some good traditions (provided you want to keep fighting with Infantry, at least. Another reason why Spain is a good follow-up for them.) Latinitas is strong with whomever, though.

Good with Augustus (of course), Simón Bolívar, either Friedrich, Trung Trac (I see the fun to be had with this pairing has already been explained), etc. Really, just about anyone can make them work. Which probably contributes to them feeling "bland," but whatever. They're solid.

Oh! And the AI never seems to go for the Colosseum. I can put it off towards the end of the age and still get it almost every time. And it's not like it's off on some branch that Rome wouldn't want to bother researching anyway - you get it normally from Entertainment, which gets you a precious settlement cap increase that you're for sure going to want as Rome. It's a great wonder to have, but mostly later on in Antiquity and into Exploration and Modern, when you'll have more quarters for it to ping off of. And since you can put it off without much risk, building it early takes up a lot more turns than building it later, without losing that much benefit from having it built. Essentially, this is one of the weakest wonder associations of any Antiquity civ, but the rest of the kit is good enough that who really cares, you know?

 

[bengalryan9]

I think Rome's OK. Nothing special but not bad either. Their civics and traditions have some nice effects, though a couple of them kind of work against each other (if I'm getting a bunch of free infantry from settling, how much culture am I going to get from training them?). I think Latinitas is my favorite part of their kit.

The Legion is kind of in a weird spot right now. At best it's an infantry with +4 CS, and to get that you'll have to keep all 4 Roman traditions slotted whether you're getting use out of them at the moment or not. On the other hand, getting +2 CS per card meant they could be +8 which feels a little too strong (and that's not even getting in to what you could get as Lafayette). +1.5 CS feels perfect to me but I don't think the game allows for that... maybe they should re-design the unit entirely?

Colosseum is good but (as pointed out) it's not too difficult to get as anybody. Rome does get a LOT of unlocks in future ages, some of which can be a little tricky or map dependent, so that's nice. I like the Legatus's ability to settle, too, though it's nothing gamebreaking by any stretch.

 

[Lord Lakely]

ANother reason why Spain is a good follow-up for them

Spain is the nuts with any antiquity start though, right? I've played them twice and ended up with Mughal levels of Gold generation both times. You could start as Khmer or Egypt and then flip the game on its head as Spain.

A normal turn of Spain in late Exploration is settling a distant lands city, buying all the warehouse buildings, getting urban centres, then buying all the urban centre buildings, then upgrading and then buying a few MORE buildings with your pocket change. all on the same turn. Getting ahead of myself for the Spain topic, but good lord.

Like the biggest synergy between Rome and Spain is that Spain is an excellent follow-up for Urban Centre starts by discounting your city conversion costs even more. Which is not that big of a synergy in itself.

 

[disjointaccount]

Rome are solid, if not the most interesting kit in antiquity. Extra culture early is strong, the Colosseum is a very solid wonder to have more or less guaranteed, and the other standout is the Legion, which I'd say is probably the best antiquity infantry UU imo? And the legatus saves you some production on a settler or two.

Wildly underwhelming UQ effect but the buildin yields are still nice.

Obvious fun synergies are Lafayette for tradition CS stacking and Trung Trac for an instant legatus settle. Augustus works nicely too, as you'd expect.

I don't have a ton to say about Rome. Like I said in the Augustus thread, he and Rome are kind of beginner-y/generalist picks, like Rome was in 6, and as such are perfectly fine in thir roles but aren't the most interesting to me. This is a bit less so the case with Rome, but most other antiquity civs still speak to me more on a fun level.