Civ Discussion - Carthage

[bengalryan9]

This is a really good point and you're likely to have the gold to make spamming those UIs across your empire pretty easy.

One thing I'm hoping to see get looked at in the future in general is town specializations... some of them just don't seem all that worth it as it currently stands. Buffing some of these means buffing towns, and that would buff Carthage. Fishing/Farming does what it's meant to do and does it well. Mining is decent, but maybe not for Carthage as do you really need extra gold? Their kit encourages you to use trading posts on one hand (Codex slots) but makes them pointless on the other (+15 naval trade range). I think if Urban Centers were better for culture and science production Carthage would be well setup to take advantage of it (and maybe that's where there Codex slot could go, instead?), but right now they seem pretty bad and I never bother.

One other thing to watch out for as Carthage is that I think they can get unlucky with map spawns with their coastal bias... make sure you don't have so many resources or mountains around your capital that you don't have room to expand your only city! This actually came into play in my last game as them with Isabella where I had ocean to the west and a mountain natural wonder to the right (comes with taking Isabella, which could be a bit of a drawback to choosing her in this case?), plus a smattering of resources nearby as well. I had just enough space to get by but it was pretty cramped and no way would I have been able to build multiple wonders there.

Based on Firaxis' post on the upcoming update Urban Centers are indeed getting a big update. Carthage (and anybody else, but that's who we're focused on here) can now use that specialization to purchase libraries, monuments, baths, and maybe some other buildings. That strikes me as a big positive for Carthage and should make the science legacy path a lot more achievable.

 

[Leucarum]

Yeah that one is a real game changer for Carthage! Dwlefinitely has potential to make them less of a zerg rush civ.

 

[Hellenism Salesman]

I almost can't believe that they're buffing Carthage, even indirectly. Based on numbers alone, they seem like one of the strongest Civs in the Age.

 

[queenpea]

I almost can't believe that they're buffing Carthage, even indirectly. Based on numbers alone, they seem like one of the strongest Civs in the Age.

Maybe there is a planned nerf in the works.

 

[Kmart_Elvis]

I played Carthage once, as Augustus. Loved it. Then again, my favorite civ from Civ 5 was Venice, so this was right up my alley. Augustus gave me culture buildings in my towns, so I was only behind in science. But being limited to only one city in antiquity wasn't that bad. I didn't go conquering and never used their cavalry.

Went with Chola then Mughal. Did an economic victory.

I found them a really strong antiquity civ. Double settlers really helped. I look forward to trying them with the new changes, since they look even better.

 

[Kurtbob]

In the June update notes, the Urban town specialization is changing and will definetly shake up Carthage playthroughs. No need to play Augustus to buy culture buildings in towns anymore.

"Urban Center has been reworked to better reflect its name and role. It now boosts Gold and Happiness toward Building maintenance and unlocks access to key Buildings like the Library, Bath, and Monument without needing to fully upgrade into a City."

 

[Lord Lakely]

I almost can't believe that they're buffing Carthage, even indirectly. Based on numbers alone, they seem like one of the strongest Civs in the Age.

I think it'll be fine. Carthage really struggles with gold, of which they have never enough. Buying Libraries allows them to compete for the scientific legacy, but it also delays the Punic Ports significantly.

 

[UWHabs]

Sounds like you'll be able to get the first tier buildings only. That will help Carthage for sure, since they'll at least be able to get a few science and culture from each town now. Although they're still in a weird place where they get bonuses for specializing towns into paths that directly prevent them from hitting the science legacies.

I think people like Carthage because they're fun and unique, I don't necessarily think they're stronger than some other civs (like Maya, obviously). Since they fixed the Numidian Cavalry bonus, they might still be in the top tier, but aren't so much ahead. And if they want, they could simply cap the Numidian bonus to like +6 max bonus, as an "easy" way to limit how strong they can be.

 

[queenpea]

I think it'll be fine. Carthage really struggles with gold, of which they have never enough. Buying Libraries allows them to compete for the scientific legacy, but it also delays the Punic Ports significantly.

Carthage struggles with gold?

 

[m_mus]

As others, I also paired Cathage ironically with Augustus and had a blast. Producing one colonist and receiving two really fed well into the "vast overseas empire bound to one metropolis"-theme they were going for in their design, which I really like. The Unique Infrastructure is ... ok (?) I guess and I have to be confess, that I didn't recruit the Numidian cavalry once, but this may be because I played them on fractal and basically had no land-border to other civilizations.

 

[disjointaccount]

Carthage struggles with gold?

In my experience, they generate a ton of it, but also want to use a ton of it. 2 extra buildings per town + having to buy cavalry for an army creates a lot more expenditure than most other civs. So even though I bring in loads of money as Carthage, I do find I still need to spend it faster than I'm earning it.

 

[queenpea]

I’ve never had that issue, and I also find that having increased resource capacity in your towns, along with simply having more towns in general (with production buildings which further increase gold) help you out generously with your economy.

As Carthage, though, I’ve never really had to build a large army, so that might be skewing my perception.

 

[Lord Lakely]

Carthage struggles with gold?

Depends on whether you get Economic points or not. Generally, you don't have enough gold to buy the buildings in every town, of which you'll have many. Not if you also want to buy units.

At least, that was my experience with Carthage, playing it with a non-Economic leader (Revolutionary Napoleon). The Civ is good, but I never quite made enough Gold to fuel both my conquest and my development.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Depends on whether you get Economic points or not. Generally, you don't have enough gold to buy the buildings in every town, of which you'll have many. Not if you also want to buy units.

At least, that was my experience with Carthage, playing it with a non-Economic leader (Revolutionary Napoleon). The Civ is good, but I never quite made enough Gold to fuel both my conquest and my development.

As in so much else in the game (and history!) a lot depends on your map.

IF Carthage has access to numerous trading partners, the doubled trade routes she gets can solve most of your Gold problems.

IF everybody is out of range, or at war with you, you don't have a lot of alternatives to get all the Gold you need/want.

I've had it go both ways - and when I had half a dozen or more trade routes all humming, Carthage was a breeze - only time I ever got 7 Wonders in a single city in Antiquity! – But it was on a Fractal map that gave me very few land borders with anyone and I built a fleet of Quadriremes that made attacking me suicidal - and have not managed to reproduce that fabulous map and game since!