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CIV Illustrated #4: "Hybrid Economy" !

Discussion in 'Civ4 Strategy Articles' started by Seraiel, Jun 8, 2015.

  1. FlyingSwan

    FlyingSwan King

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    Id say without PHI its not an economy.It gives you the constitution tech early basically,and although police state sounds good ive never found it much use early on.An economy based on the mids/PHI leader sounds suspiciously like a SE :lol:.

    Had a look at the G-major gauntlet-wow-its mind boggling what you guys put your selves through to get the "right" map.770ad space is just nuts.
     
  2. Seraiel

    Seraiel Deity

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    Things like this is, why I like to put up my findings to be checked before I start to work :blush: .

    Thx.
     
  3. Seraiel

    Seraiel Deity

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  4. MrGrandiose

    MrGrandiose Chieftain

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    The "beggar" economy!
     
  5. T-hawk

    T-hawk Transcend

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    To add a comment on the specialist economy:

    I've found that trying to use Pyramids-Representation for a specialist economy isn't very good. Running specialists kills your food income and growth. As you say, specialists so early are good only for GPP and not really for anything else.

    But, there's one key piece that does make Representation shine, and that is Mercantilism. That combination makes for 6 free beakers per city, basically a free gold mine that doesn't require worker labor or food or happy to sustain. I've had good success with getting to Banking quickly to enable Mercantilism, and then the specialist beakers can get you through more midgame milestones like Liberalism and Democracy surprisingly fast. I'm not sure if this holds up on Deity compared to other efficient options like espionage economy, or when you might not be able to get the Pyramids. But Representation-Mercantilism can work pretty well in the right scenarios.
     
  6. Seraiel

    Seraiel Deity

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    REP-Mercantilism is a very common tactic I use during every Golden Age, unless I got Corporations of course. It's output in GNP is definitely comparable with Free Market, leaving Mercantilism with the advantage in GPP while Free Market gives slightly more research with a slightly greater deficit and the -25% costs on Corporations. There are also scenarios in which Mercantilism is much stronger, like when having 2 Vassals to keep foreign TRs, and the smaller the map, the more powerful Mercantilism gets also.
     
  7. Virupaksha

    Virupaksha Chieftain

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    Thx for this. Well set out, lots of good ideas, definately 5 star rating.

    I'm moving from monarch to emporer currently and need all the gold I can get.
     
  8. Lazybones

    Lazybones Chieftain

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    Totally agree with this but I think missionary/exec fail gold is possibly worse.

    Great guide by the way, thanks for writing it up :).
     
  9. Seraiel

    Seraiel Deity

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    You're welcome :) . I wrote this guide with pleasure :) .
     
  10. enKage

    enKage Follower of Zoamelgustar

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    Long ago there was something like religious economy (already partially explained as shrines) but there is second aspect missing: massive priests+merchants economy. I suppose it is not very eficcient unless Mids and representation and lower levels, but can work as exotic case and can give a lot of fun.

    Every settled priest is 2h1gol (also Angkhor probably adds additional hammer), every merchant is +6 gold. + modifiers. + 3beakers per specialists.

    Probably it is not worth to make such a city on ones own simply because of the high cost of great people, but there are certain leaders who love generating and settling priests (Gandhi!). Conquered Delhi is often a nice source of gold through settled specialists, hammers generated by them and because often gets a Shrine or two. GMerchant missions are more effective then settling, but additional food is nice when going just for fun for megacities .

    I dont think it screams for mentioning in a guide, but nice to know if you have 2 leaders to conquer and 1 of these is Gandhi, it is better to conquer the 2nd first and allow Gandhi to improve hhis capitol by priests first.
     
  11. Sun Tzu Wu

    Sun Tzu Wu Deity Supporter

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    Superb guide, Seraiel! It should get six out of five stars!
     
  12. Major Tom

    Major Tom Immortal

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    These guides are excellent and well presented. Very valueable for players on any level. I have not taking really notice of them before. Thanks for all your efforts and time invested, Seraiel!
     
  13. Seraiel

    Seraiel Deity

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    Thx Major Tom and STW :) .

    @ enkage: I'm a foe of settling GPs, because it's so much less efficient than bulbing or using the special ability of the GP (Trade Mission, Shrine, Academy etc. ) . Priests are by far the most efficient GP to settle, still, bulbing generates so many :science: that settling can not compete, especially not with the possibility to trade around a tech for even more :science: . Imo. , the concept of settling as many GPs as possible to create 1 mega-city is completely obsolete (not the player) because Fireaxis simply didn't balance settling against the other options. I calculated this several times and even with REP and all possible multipliers it's an exception. Settling the 1st or 2nd GP may be worth it (probably with PHI) , but settling several GPs on purpose is simply neglecting the fact, that a game only lasts for a certain number of turns and that the GP not only needs to produce more :science: 'til that time than bulbing would have created, but also that a new tech means extra :science: via trading or unlocked buildings. It's odd to write this, but getting a Priest that cannot build a Shrine or trigger a GA is simply a fail, same for Great Artists, and settling Merchants or GSs is either an exception or it's again fail, because bulbing and special abilities are better.
    Regarding "Religioius Economy" as a special case: Under "Religious Economy" I understand a SPI-trait Temple-focussed economy with the Spiral Minaret and the University of Sankore. I've tried it already, I never was broke as fast as in that game ^^ . It's nice to get those extra :science. and :gold: when conquering those wonders, but again, relying on it is not possible, and the SM and the UoS are unfortunately such bad wonders even with SPI-Temples, that I have still to find a single case, where building them instead of failing them would have been worth it. Just to help with imagination: In my current game (tiny Terra map) I control 30 cities and 60% of the map, so the maximum. I have Temples with the AP-Religion in about 15 of them, because the AP got built very early and I luckily had that Religion, so they will pay back. The SM and the UoS are 1650 :hammers: each (Marathon values) so about 800 :hammers: with the resource. Those 15 Temples would generate 30 :science: (or :gold: ) so they'd pay back after roughly 25T. That's not much but at the same time I can get :gold: * 2 via Failgold, so I need to add the cost of the city that can fail on them aswell. Lets assume that my city makes 25 :hammers: and can build it for 30T (all Marathon values again, so 30T is not much) , then that's 25*30 :gold: on top of the 800 :hammers: = 750 + 800 = roughly 1500. Now the Temples pay back in 50-55T. I need to add the costs for the Missionary and the Temple aswell though. Let's say a Temple is only 120 :hammers: (half price on Marathon) because it also produces the AP- :hammers: , then it's 200 :hammers: for the Missionary and the Temple = 3000 :hammers: extra that I'd need to invest, then the UoS or the SM would pay back after over 150T. That's simply too long, the game will be over 'til then but also the instant options multiply aswell via trade etc. .

    This is just a rough calculation / description why "Relgious Economy" is inefficient even under very favourable circumstances. I'll btw. add a few sentences on the use of GPs towards the guide btw. , because it has its own rules, i. e. a GM gives its :gold: relative to the TRs of the other city (that's why the ToA-city is usually the best to use a GM on, big cities with Harbours and maybe even Custom Houses may be better though) . As this is very important, players should know about this.

    Thx for all the feedback again :) .
     
  14. Iwo Jima

    Iwo Jima Warlord

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    Finally :rotfl:
     

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