[R&F] Civ of the Week: Korea

acluewithout

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This week is Korea!

They have a unique Campus! They have other things which are not a unique Campus - but who cares!! Just build campuses!!!

I’m travelling so can’t post full details. I’ll do that later this week, along with posting the poll for next week’s Civ.
 
Reddit post on Korea

Civ ability - Three Kingdoms
Farms receive +1 Food and Mines receive +1 Science if adjacent to a Seowon.

Seowon
Effects:

This is basically one long bonus, and it means that Seowons naturally start out at +4 and also buff its surrounding tiles. As Korea has a hill bonus it allows you to grow your cities as long as you make a Seowon a central part of the placement. The -1 for each adjancency district often means you'll have to buy a tile early on for the +4 and sometimes this isn't viable. In addition you also really want to take into account Great library/Oxford

Leader bonus - Hwarang
Cities with an established Governor receive +3% Culture and +3% Science for each promotion that Governor has.

This encourages Korea to promote their governors more, but then again tall play kinda sucks anyways and is unlikely to influencce your governor choice. In reality it's more culture and science.

Hwacha

Great defensive unit. I often forget about it, but it's good for situations where you need some extra power.

And that's literally it. Just get science and pick your victory type.

I already have have some Korea playthroughs already, but they were mostly boring and not really worth talking about, but...

here's a neat start for Korea; you can get the Mids easily due to the random lone desert and stone to boost masonry

Seed

Map 902832344

Game 902832343

Fractal

Normal Sized/rest default

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I stayed mostly peaceful in the game except at the start when Victoria was in the way and mostly just kept to myself, though honestly the Great Library wasn't really worth it here since I hard built it. Though funny how you can have much better science than other playthroughs when I was actually trying.

It's quite a nice capital in the end
Spoiler :
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Korea is a very strong Civ. The Seowon is the best unique district in the game IMO, getting a +4 science adjacency bonus at all times is incredibly strong.

Plus it works with Natural Philosophy, so that means you can get a +8 adjacency bonus in each city. I've little difficulty winning on Immortal difficulty with Korea.
 
Korea is another one of those civs I recommend playing one higher difficulty level, they are that powerful. I also recommend this with Macedon. Of course if you are already a deity player, not much you can do. I stayed same difficulty level as to compare them with other civs I'm playing in civ of the week.

My first game I started a game without reading a description of all their abilities, and I forgot about the mines giving +1 science when adjacent to your campus. I actually started a 2nd game because I was a little disappointed my first game didn't end as early as I was expecting. I only beat my Netherlands game by 9 turns. Kind of shows Korea isn't that massively overpowered. They are still the best at science (though my Scotland games seemed pretty close, but we'll see when I play them again), but Netherlands sure gave them a run for their money in my game. I feel like I can get their time down more. I'm not the best at fast victories, because I still like to build wonders, but it's something I'm improving on.

My start:
Spoiler :
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Strategy is simple: Place as many Seowons as you can and don't put other districts next to them. Though pay attention and try to put them in places you can surround with farms and mines. I didn't do this enough in my first game. Also run natural philosophy as soon as you can. I felt like I didn't enable this policy card early enough in my first game, it's why I'm playing them again to get my win time down. I recommend Natural Philosophy and Rationalism (you really should build Forbidden Palace so you can do this with your tier 2 government) as both policy cards work out well for Korea. And don't forget the governors. I went ahead and picked them all up. Though each promotion also gives the +3% so you don't need all of them, but I wanted the boost to as many cities as I could.

Three Kingdoms: As if they aren't powerful enough, you can get even more science (and food) out of them. Worth paying attention to. I forgot about this my first game.

Seowon: Massively powerful district, worth building in every city you can. Try to plan ahead where you want your districts.

Hwarang: +3% science AND culture for each governor promotion: As if Korea isn't powerful enough, they throw in culture as well. Helpful though, as you'll find your science far outpacing your culture.

Leader Agenda: Her agenda is annoying to satisfy. She often has more science than you. But if another AI hammers her and she never expands you can satisfy this without too many problems.

Hwacha: Ended up using this my first game when Khmer attacked me. The not attacking and moving is annoying. And knights can hurt these pretty bad, I almost lost a couple. Honestly, they kind of suck for me. Your best bet is to keep them parked in cities, forts, or encampments. You can upgrade archers into them, so you don't need to hard build them.

Final Grade: A+. Overpowered, what else can you say. Sometimes it's fun to play such a powerful civ. It's why I started a 2nd game with them. I felt like I could get my win time down more and that I didn't build enough Seowons early enough and didn't get enough mines up around them. And I went to war in my first game which may have slowed me down. Other than taking one city from Gorgo in my 2nd game, I stayed away from war.

Final screenshot of my first game

Spoiler :
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So the question is do you go for a religion with them. I ended up doing it both times. Since the religion race wasn't very active I figured why not. I picked the belief that gives +1 science to cities with campus districts and +1 gold to cities with commercial districts. You could pick the belief that gives +2 science to other cities following this religion, but that would mean building enough holy sites to spread your religion to other civs, seems kind of dumb (that belief would work better with Arabia) since you should be building Seowons instead. I know I delayed getting a Seowon up in my 2nd city by building a Holy Site, but only by a little bit.

edit: I should also note that Casa De Cantratación is a good wonder to build since that gives you 3 promotions and that's an extra 9% science and culture for your cities.
 

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Interestingly I was only able to shave about 5 turns on my victory time, actually 6 since I had to press end turn on the above save. I even built Great Library which seemed like it was helping. Perhaps I should have had everyone start running campus research projects earlier, but the builder in me can't stop building things in my cities. I'm not sure how to get her any faster, so I'll call it, and be done with her.

I think this is a more interesting map and perhaps easier map, depending on your diplomacy. Avoiding early war helped keep me friendly with nearly everyone. edit: Oh I did take the city of Knossis. It had really crappy fresh water situation, and too far for aqueduct. But I kept it because it had a finished theater square. It turned out to be a really nice city despite lack of fresh water.

Spoiler :
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As I mentioned, not sure how to get her victory time down more except maybe up the difficulty level. Because at King, you just don't have high level Great scientists and engineers available. Although it's the research that is still the bottleneck, I actually thought production might be bottleneck this game, but it was still research. If I could have gotten oil and got the Composites Eureka I could have shaved 3 or 4 turns off. I just didn't have the resources to pick up Rockerfeller. And Korea doesn't make a lot of money, especially if you are prioritizing Seowons over Commercial hubs. It's kind of funny I'm so poor as Korea. But I did run Communism both games, I'll just pretend I'm playing as North Korea. Communism seems like the better tier 3 government for Korea, especially as I had the Inspiration for it both games, where as I didn't have it for Democracy both games. And Natural Philosophy transitions nicely into 5 year plan.

Final screenshot.

Spoiler :
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One final note, the 2nd game is more of a "tall" game, and I think that certainly is the better choice for Korea.
 

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I like what they did with the Campus. The main adjacency Mechanic is good - +4 but you may need to spend gold for tiles and it won’t share adjacencies with other districts; and then a soft adjacency boost where your campus gives science (and food) to certain tiles, but that requires a build charge, pop to work the tile, and not boosted by Rationalism (which would be crazy otherwise, eg if campus got +1 from mines). Is it all OP? Yeah, maybe. Still. If you want a “science civ”, well, this is it.

Like China, I think they’re maybe a little too turtle focused. It’d be nice if they had heir turtle ship in addition to their HwaCha. But otherwise - they seem fine to me.
 
So the question is do you go for a religion with them.

You could go into a Dark Age on purpose and use that holy site policy. That way, it wouldn't even matter if you founded a religion. I think that's actually the best strat with them, but problem is Seowon itself gives era score. :S
 
You could go into a Dark Age on purpose and use that holy site policy. That way, it wouldn't even matter if you founded a religion. I think that's actually the best strat with them, but problem is Seowon itself gives era score. :S

You could just decide not to build the Seowon before the Dark Age. Nerd Commando on youtube has a video guide on Korea that showcases an early religious strategy with them.
 
Anyone know if opposing AI civilization districts interfere with Seowon adjacency? Because it doesn't seem like it does, but I figured it would. Or maybe sea districts don't interfere? It seems like this harbor from an AI civ isn't lowering my adjacency.

I generally tried to avoid putting Seowons in that position, but that was the only decent spot for that city that didn't require a lot of buying tiles for and that I didn't expect to put another district next to.

Spoiler :
aFcJdRg.jpg
 
The first time I ever played Korea I started on large island and didn't encounter any civilizations until the Industrial era. This was back when R&F released and you got the +5% bonuses to culture and science. Without the threat of war, Korea is pretty much unstoppable. That's why whenever I start next to Korea in a game, I ALWAYS rush to eliminate it.
 
The first time I ever played Korea I started on large island and didn't encounter any civilizations until the Industrial era. This was back when R&F released and you got the +5% bonuses to culture and science. Without the threat of war, Korea is pretty much unstoppable. That's why whenever I start next to Korea in a game, I ALWAYS rush to eliminate it.

I play on Immortal and if I play as Korea and I don't get invaded and lose cities I know i'm going to win the game. I'd need 7 or 8 cities and i'm set. Possibly even 6.
 
I honestly find Korea to be one of the most boring civilizations to play as.
Unfortunately, I agree. Too many of the bonuses centered on the district and didn't really reward different ways of playing the game.
 
I agree that Korea can be a bit boring, but they are a highly effective Civ. Plus if you were to go for Culture victory that would be a good challenge?
 
Not really. Science lets Korea get radio/computers faster, and lets them get first dibs on wonders. This is only aided by their hills bias.
 
Things i dislike about korea:

They have a ton of free power for just playing the game. The caveat that you can't put districts next to Seowons would be a wrinkle except the farms/mines boost (which IMO is as good as the district itself) totally reinforces that.
Hwarang isn't as offensive as it was on release but it's literally just more free power. +10% science and culture was no joke and getting up to +15% in your major producers is no joke either. As people have said, it just sort of rewards you for campus spam and is fun- but I find those victories ring a bit hollow. Automatic half of Rationalism is also huge. Most civs I rarely have better than +2 campuses.

Things I like about korea:

I actually really enjoy the seowon's mechanics with other districts and farms/mines. It's fun to plan and play around with them. Sometimes you really need to place districts next to them, but do you sacrifice the farm tile or the mine? Should I break that crucial boosted farm triangle to push Seoul to the next district threshold?! :confused:

The seowon also pairs well with heartbeat of steam, for some reason it feels nice to pick that.

The Hwacha is a neat unit concept (make a unit come earlier, but give it a drawback) and is really nice when those savages come to take your science utopia. Although i think they could have made something cool happen with the turtle ship too.

BONUS:
Can you guys believe they had the seowon giving 6 science in the first look video?!
upload_2018-11-7_23-16-31.png

Never forget.

I think korea is rivalled only by aztec and sumer for ability to let you play up a difficulty. If campuses weren't an ancient era district, it would be another story, but they let you get to crucial techs for wonders, units, and improvements so much faster via half price and that huge yield.
 
Well, here's another game. I got the DLCs (cept Vikings Scenario Pack, they're not getting my $2!)

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Start kinda sucks, but what's new? At least we have hills somewhere.

And thern Rome is just there, and I don't want to deal with his legions. I steal a settler and try to attack, but it's pretty annoying as he founded cities even when dying. To make matters worse Rome flipped just as I was about to kill him so I had to retake it after finishing him off.

Spoiler :
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Meanwhile, Poland looks like an easy attack target, though she does have defender of the faith. Might as well ambush them when they're wandering around...

Spoiler :
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I leave Poland a city but it keeps flipping but that's ok since I have Warlord's throne.

Went for Space.... lost to cultural victory. My own cultural victory. Though with moon landing giving so much culture, you gotta wonder if that's better to build the Royal Society instead of the Natural History Museum for that purpose.... the later kinda sucks anyways.

Spoiler :
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Damn pirates when I wasn't looking
Spoiler :
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Capital at end
Spoiler :
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Also I have no idea why I have the same science as the game I had 10 cities in. I also don't know why I won faster with England.... Probably because I know I can just win as Korea by randomly pressing buttons.

I also managed to get the Mausoleum at Halicarnassus. It's probably decent for getting more use out of Great Admirals (if only we were England) since you can use their retirement ability without retiring them. Great Engineers.... are still garbage unless you get really lucky; unless you think 2 culture to workshops and culture bombing tiles with an IZ (yea doubling that charge sure helps) is actually something that matters. Given the actual cost of the wonder, I think it's pretty clear it's a wonder that's to be captured rather than something you build yourself.

Apadana is pretty solid though, for collecting those envoys, if you're into wonder spamming. Probably would be nice as China.
 

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