Civ originality

[Quarterblue]

Here we rate civ originality. The more unique, original, funny - and different from standard bts - aspects a civ has, the better it is rated.


PROTIP: You can most of the time recognize something original and unique when the AI often sucks at it. A good example is the use of Luchiurp golems or Illian rituals.


God Tier: Balseraphs, Luchiurp, Khazad, Illians

Top Tier: Amurites, Svartalfar, Ljosalfar, Sheaim, Calabim

Mid Tier: Sidar, Malakim, Clan of Embers, Elohim

Low Tier: Bannor, Kuriotates, Lanun, Doviello

Shіt Tier: Hippus, Grigori

Now let me explain this rating:

Civs in the God Tier are the most original civs in the game. Balseraphs have an insane arsenal of weapons (stealing cities with Loki, weapons with Mimics, Cages, Freak Shows, Arenas, Puppets, etc...). With such you can have a strategy that you could never use with other civs (beelining Philosophy with Illians, never building a single Settler with Bals, using Mud Golems as an offensive weapon, gathering gold just for the sake of it...). Moreover, all these civs are quite powerful. With these civs you're never bored.

Civs in the Top Tier are also original, but can dissapoint you sometimes. Svarts are underpowered, Calabim overpowered (making the game boring), Amurites' early game is just about survival, and Abashi is available so lately that it becomes completely useless - you've already won/lost way before. However, apart from that, you can get a very enjoyable and unique.

Civs in the Mid Tier have a few tricks, such as the Sand Lion, the Unique Features line of sight or the Wolf Riders and Warrens, but you can't just focus on them. Your whole strategy won't depend on these features.

Civs in the Low Tier generally lack originality in the fantasy department. Kuriotates have Centaurs only (Eurabatres is as useful as Abashi) and Doviello are too underpowered.

Civs in the Shіt Tier could be played by any BTS player, they are even advised for beginners of FFH. Hippus are all about horses, they could be implemented in any other (non-fantasy) mod. Dragonslayer bonus is even less useful than the dragons mentioned above. The tavern is available too late in the game to be fully enjoyable.

Note 1: Don't be offended by the 'Shіt Tier' designation. This is a relative scale, a comparison to other civs, and it appears that some must go in the 'God Tier', and some in the 'Shіt Tier', even if you completely disagree with my rating.

Note 2: Of course, Mercurians and Infernals should go in the Upper-God Tier, but they aren't playing the same game as other civs.

 

[JonathanStrange]

The Balseraphs for the most original and most fun to play against; my Ljosalfars are none too original but they have some amusing moments and they're fully thought through as a civ.

"I stopped fighting my inner demons...
... We're on the same side now." -- Keelyn to her War Council before provoking the Third Amurite war.

The Grigori and Hippus are my least favorite to play on the OP's scale of most original civs. I think they're not one I come to FFH2 for, but I think it was a good decision to have the more basic or familiar sort of civ included.

 

[KillerClowns]

I voted for the Sheaim, if only becase their modus operandi is utterly alien to BTS... tearing apart reality itself for arcane power. Sundered and Planar Gates are truly delightful, and both far predate Abashi. Oh, and might I propose renaming the bottom tier to BTS tier? Ordinary Tier? Or just plain Bottom tier? Trust me on this one.

 

[Valkrionn]

I voted Khazad because they are my favorite vanilla civ (Though I prefer playing them with the two Emergent leaders added in RifE. ). If modmod civs are included, I'd have voted for the D'tesh... Population growth via taking slaves is interesting.

As for the name of the lowest tier... '' Tier is insulting to the people who've worked on this mod as hard as they have. Without that hard work, there'd be no real fantasy mod for Civ (barring Warhammer, which has been stuck for a while). I second KC's recommendation to rename it the 'Bottom' tier.

 

[Nikis-Knight]

Civs in the Low Tier generally lack originality in the fantasy department.

I'm confused here--are you judging mechanics, or backstory? I think Grigori have more unique fantasy story than Khazad, for instance.

And I think the Kuriotates gameplay is very different from BtS, where the greater number of cities is generally the key to victory, even if their units aren't as distinct--from FfH baseline--as other civs.

 

[Jenaelha]

I'm confused here--are you judging mechanics, or backstory? I think Grigori have more unique fantasy story than Khazad, for instance.

And I think the Kuriotates gameplay is very different from BtS, where the greater number of cities is generally the key to victory, even if their units aren't as distinct--from FfH baseline--as other civs.

Agree. It's almost like the OP went into a what is the "Best Civ" for a moment. I like the Grigori personally and Sh*t Happens to be fun. I also think the AI has a hard time with Grigori strategy.

 

[Tlalynet]

Balseraphs are very close to the best because of the insane trait, but the insane trait tends to make you play normally and just reap whatever your advantage might be at the time. You can't play normally as the Kurios, the economy is just plain different. They're the only ones that can reap a large benefit from religion flipping, rapid expansion phase never truely happens, even the choice between specialists and cottages is totally turned on its head by the amount of land each city can harvest. Warmongering doesn't pay off in the normal way but doesn't cost you in the normal way either. Vassals are more useful than normal. There is no War->Peace and rebuild->War cycle, you can either war all the way to domination or not war aggressively at all.

Kurios change strategy a lot, and the centaurs sprint ability is pretty cool too.

 

[Marksman77]

All the civs are original, all have unique flavour.
I'm a bit confused as to what is the base for your classification. Every civ playstyle significantly differs from vanilla civ, at least because of worldspell and of completely different surroundings then in vanilla (magic, more barbarians, unique features, etc).

 

[apenpaap]

I really like the Sheaim for both their originality and power.

 

[DaveGold]

I really can't see how the khazad can be a top tier original race. They're dwarves: cannons, forges, treasuries, right! Perfectly good dwarves but not as original as the Kurios with just 3 cities, airships, etc. I voted for the Sheaim though as you always think you might play a sensible sort of game at the start but end up with the armageddon madness every time, or at least I do .

Civs in the Mid Tier have a few tricks, such as the Sand Lion, the Unique Features line of sight or the Wolf Riders and Warrens, but you can't just focus on them. Your whole strategy won't depend on these features.

I think you'd better change that definition. Quite a few of your low ranked civs can really exist just on their specialities, warrens for the Clan, crusade for the Bannor, horselords for the Hippus.

 

[Jarrema]

I voted for Illians for their rituals, ut I think that Kuriotates with their super-cities are also very atypical (or original)

 

[D.H.V.]

There must be more than one choise in the poll. I voted for Calabim, but there are ather 4-5 in the same class.

The thing I like most about Calabim, are the absolutely insane flesh golems later in game. It's fun to tackle with these, but it's true - they are absolutely overpowered. Str 19-20 and all possible promotions... Just for the experiment, one of these Frankenstein-monsters, alone, anihilated completly whole civilization.

 

[Tlalynet]

If its on originality I'd have to low teir all the standard fare fantasy races, Elves, Dwarves, Orcs, Lizardmen, Humans, Vampires. Pirates and circus freaks are extra low teir for originality, but Balseraphs gameplay gives them a big plus. Sidar seem quite original to me in that I haven't heard of a whole civilization of shadowpeople before. Illians and Sheim are also highly original in a similar but distinct way. Kurios are original in that they are not really either a draconian or centaur race, centaurs rarely get their own civilization in anything and when they do its not a super city civ.

The whole mod is super creative, but its based on a gaming archetype that limits straight up originality, its based on a D&D campaign after all.

 

[KillerClowns]

A particularly wonderful source of originality is how the civs can get so wonderfully warped during gameplay. Wood elves turning brutally, amorally imperialistic? Check. Vampires hiding behind a religion of order and purity? Seen it. Opening up the gates of Heaven and releasing angels to deal with a pirate problem? Always a possibility. Heavily armed clowns leading a crusade into the maw of hell? Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.

 

[Tlalynet]

Agreed

 

[readercolin]

I'm not so sure that basing it off D&D limits originality. I see it more as a starting point that most fantasy games can relate to, and then quickly and easily learn the differences between your versions and D&D's versions. Instead of limiting originality, it provides you a base to jump off of to introduce things that would be impossible to do starting from scratch.

That being said, the scale in this wasn't so much the general idea of where the civ came from and more originality in gameplay as opposed to BTS. In this, I would have to say that things like elves and dwarves, while not very original as a concept in gaming, do play in a very original manner as opposed to BTS. Now if only I could have a khazid leader who was philosophical and organized...

-Colin

 

[Tlalynet]

No, it doesn't limit its originality, but anything that is a D&D concept is not original to this mod.

And originality is overrated anyway, everything needs a starting point of familiarity or else it becomes totally abstract. Creativity is always great, and this mod is super creative.

 

[Monkeyfinger]

"God tier" and "Shіt Tier" edge out lolcats as the most malignant lumps of cancer to spread out of the chans. Whatever happened to "top" and "bottom"?

 

[UNIT 666]

He has a top tier. It's right below God tier.

But, yes. It's a strange way to name those tiers.

 

[Lascivious]

I find Hippus the worst of the lot really. I think they are overpowered (and ridiculously so with Tasunke IMO) and that their backstory lacks originality and believability. An entire nation of horseborn mercenaries? That's not how you play them, nor is it plausible I think. I always mentally retcon that bit and think of them as a Rohan/Mongolian-ish type of thing.

But basically they are just guys on horses. I think they could be peppered up a bit somehow.