Civ V Beta 1

[occam]

I think it's pretty clear that the people who designed Civ 5 didn't agree that the ability to regenerate maps was one of the most important features of the game.

I don't think the Civ 4 designers thought so either, I think they thought it was a minor feature that some people might like and didn't cost them very much to implement, so why not? That's a whole lot different from considering it one of the most important features of the game.

DaviddesJ, perhaps I didn't make myself fully clear, but when I said:

... random hand-waving about what the designers might be thinking, is not as satisfying as you might imagine when you are writing it.

...I was asking for less hand-waving about what you theorize about the designers, not more. Can you see that now? Your "theories" don't rise to the level of anecdote, let alone evidence. Don't get me started on the confirmation bias involved in your flights of (limited) imagination. Just go ahead and assume that every time you assert things were intentional, I am going to counter-assert they were unintentional.

It gets fully ridiculous in the second paragraph where you are trying to distinguish among different levels of the designers valuing features based on your feelings about the designers. I guess if you are going to indulge in hand-waving, might as well pretend you can measure it, too? In for a dime, in for a dollar.

.

PS: Oh, and just for the record, could you please quote me where I said it was one of the "most important" features of the game? Wouldn't want to think you were committing a strawperson...

 

[DaviddesJ]

...I was asking for less hand-waving about what you theorize about the designers, not more. Can you see that now?

Maybe you misunderstood something about me. I don't care what you're asking for. I'm uninterested in satisfying your requests. Can you see that now?

PS: Oh, and just for the record, could you please quote me where I said it was one of the "most important" features of the game? Wouldn't want to think you were committing a strawperson...

Alraun said that map regeneration was one of the most important features of the game. I said the designers clearly don't agree, and I understand why they don't. And then you started ranting at me that my opinions are unsupportable.

The opinion we're talking about is, "Clearly, the designers of Civ V didn't consider map regeneration one of the most important game features, and most of the players of the game don't think so, either." If you want to argue against that opinion, feel free, but it's not a strawman, it's directly relevant to Alraun's posting #206, above.

 

[fizbankovi]

Let me get something straight.. Puppet cites dont increase the culture costs of policies? (I didnt use any...)

 

[pagh80]

Let me get something straight.. Puppet cites dont increase the culture costs of policies? (I didnt use any...)

No they dont

 

[Ozbenno]

We have over 50 submissions for this so far so to everyone for taking part.

Gyathaar has released a program to convert deluxe edition saves to standard edition and also to remove the extra 'baggage' in the excessively large saves some people have had. Can be found here.

 

[CharonJr]

Gyathaar has released a program to convert deluxe edition saves to standard edition and also to remove the extra 'baggage' in the excessively large saves some people have had. Can be found here.

Sounds great, any idea if this can be used during the game, too?

edit: NM, should have simply opened the link before asking Basically yes, but there might be problems with DLC civs.

CharonJr

 

[Ozbenno]

Sounds great, any idea if this can be used during the game, too?

You can use it on any save, I would test it out before relying on it though (haven't used it myself but will)

 

[Xicivilian]

Question: How do you know which tiles the puppet is working on? So then you know which to turn in to Trading Posts first...

 

[pagh80]

Question: How do you know which tiles the puppet is working on? So then you know which to turn in to Trading Posts first...

you dont know. you just have to guess. Personally ill make trading posts on river tiles/grassland tiles first.

 

[oPlaiD]

Allright, I made a new try today and shaved 101 years off of my previous attempt. My end year is 1810 this time.

This time I only built two cities, and puppeted the other ones I liked. The same strategy was employed when conquering as last time: build 3 horsemen and just kill everyone on the continent and trade with the civs on other continent. I do not trust the AI to not declare on me, so I just kill them off and take their stuff. I must say that the horsemen are better than the Camel Archers, since the latter CANNOT take a city. Incredibly annoying. Also, they only gain 2 exp per hit, whereas the horsemen gain 5 exp. Other than this, same strategy. Built Utopia Project in city two: +50 production from Railroad bonus SHOULD also be in the capital. Also, the late game is soo boooring. Nothing to do but wonderspam.

That is actually wrong; Camel Archers can take a city, but only if there is not an enemy unit in it. It's pretty frustrating with them when the enemy sticks some dumb warrior in a city or happens to get an archer built the turn before you are about to wipe it out. You can usually get them to move out, though, if you move around; the AI seems to block you by luck, not any knowledge that they could in fact stop your rampaging Camel Archers if they really wanted to.

 

[vontos]

Question for those finishing around 1700 or earlier: At what point do you stop choosing policies and wait for the Cristo Redentor? I see a lot of research/build orders but can't find what anyone has done with their policy order.

Seems like Tradition/Aristocracy, (acoustics from GL and GS), Freedom/Constitution/Free Speech (Oracle) is the best way to start. A number of Patronage policies are important to get early, but where do you stop in that tree? And how much of the Piety/Order trees do you get? Order/Communism really helps puppet cities get through their build orders to things you want them to build, and Piety/Theocracy/Mandate of Heaven directly affects the strategy. But will getting all 8 of the policies needed there lead to a faster finish than waiting for the Cristo Redentor? Do the policies and order you select them depend on how the game goes? An empire with 20 puppets would probably want to select more policies than one with 5 puppets I imagine.

 

[Xicivilian]

I am at the point where pagh80 finished his game. I had a little problem with happiness, but manly with gold, so I am to late with the bonusses from the City States. However the Aztecs and French are gone. But now I have all my puppets spread around a large continent. Just met the English. Hope they are nice to me, since I only got 3 Horsemen.

My cities are growning now, but I have to wait for my Great Scientist to find Biology, because I still need some prequested. Forgot to build University and Oxford University... I did learn from this, so probably should be better next time.

I do have to note that as my first game, I always take a policy when I can. Did you also did that, pagh80 Or did you save your points until the time you needed them?

 

[afa2000]

Finished at 1978 AC. I didn't make any puppets, just fought a short defensive war against Nobunaga.

 

[DalekDavros]

Question: How do you know which tiles the puppet is working on? So then you know which to turn in to Trading Posts first...

Normally you can't tell. However, if you have another non-puppet city nearby, you can look at its city screen to see what tiles are in use by the other city. (In this case, you can actually do one better and take the production tiles away from the puppet.)

In general, try to TP the tiles that will look most attractive to the AI (e.g., riverside grassland/floodplains) so that the city governor will switch away from what it was already working to your new tiles. If you have some military units around, just pillage the tiles that you don't want the city to work and then have a worker replace the existing pillaged improvements with TPs.

 

[pagh80]

I do have to note that as my first game, I always take a policy when I can. Did you also did that, pagh80 Or did you save your points until the time you needed them?

I didnt take any policy until i learned Theology.
At that point i unlocked the patronage tree and went for:
Aesthetics -> Philanthropy -> Scholaticism -> Cultural diplomacy -> Unlocking the freedom tree -> Constitution.
The rest i saved until i got Christo, and then the first one to take was Free speech.

Also you need as much gold as possible so try to squeeze as much gold out of the AIs.
For gold sell open borders, tactical resources, luxuries if you dont need them... Basically anything.(i didnt sell cities as that is not allowed)

 

[vcdragoon]

Round 2 went smoother, mainly from what I learned from my first attempt.

More Cultural CS, less Maritime. Seems like a tossup in the end. Only had 21k culture by redento time, so had to wait 22 turns to start Utopia. /shrug

Fun times, going to try to break the 1700 barrier.

 

[Alraun]

1866. Pretty disappointed, so I may have to run it again. Not sure where all I can cut corners though. I did have extra culture when I finished CR, but only a few turns worth. I definitely could have oriented myself towards more science earlier, but I'm not sure where I get my culture on time if I do that.

 

[TheIceSentinel]

Truly I am sad as I could have shaved 10 turns off of this had I planned a little more efficiently. Certainly could have done better had I war mongered earlier and secured my continent but I had some small setbacks militarily.

296 turns, 1852 for my second attempt and I had a great start. Have to give it one more go before the end of the month.

 

[erajah]

I didnt take any policy until i learned Theology.
At that point i unlocked the patronage tree and went for:
Aesthetics -> Philanthropy -> Scholaticism -> Cultural diplomacy -> Unlocking the freedom tree -> Constitution.
The rest i saved until i got Christo, and then the first one to take was Free speech.

Also you need as much gold as possible so try to squeeze as much gold out of the AIs.
For gold sell open borders, tactical resources, luxuries if you dont need them... Basically anything.(i didnt sell cities as that is not allowed)

That's interesting, you don't take Tradition + 33% faster Wonders?

I take Tradition -> 33% Faster Wonders -> Patronage -> Aesthetics -> Philanthropy -> Scholaticism -> Cultural Diplomacy -> Freedom -> Constitution, but depending on the amount of happiness I need I take the last Patronage one as well.

 

[pagh80]

That's interesting, you don't take Tradition + 33% faster Wonders?

I take Tradition -> 33% Faster Wonders -> Patronage -> Aesthetics -> Philanthropy -> Scholaticism -> Cultural Diplomacy -> Freedom -> Constitution, but depending on the amount of happiness I need I take the last Patronage one as well.

I have been thinking about going that path. Using the spreadsheet in the other thread, it means i have to get an extra ~800 SP points.
The question is just if i can use the turns i save on wonder building to get those extra points.