Civ V Beta 1

[sanabas]

I'm curious if any of you players who are doing well at this challenge have ever experimented the "exploit" of selling off cities to determine if it is actually an exploit. It seemed clear to me at first, but after considering:

- Most of your culture would still come from one main city anyway
- Not getting the benefit of SP's the whole game seems like it would hurt, especially with many cities
- Puppet cities throw down some cultural buildings, and use specialists, too.

...I'm not completely certain. Do you think you could win sooner than turn 240 (or whatever the best mark is so far) using it?

It would be quicker using it, for the fairly simple reason that you'd get more control over the puppets, and not have them wasting builds on barracks, armories, etc. Therefore the puppets would produce more culture, gold, science for you, without increasing the cost of anything, as you'd raze them before taking your final group of policies. In my most recent game, that would have been 1750 if I didn't do a UN experiment and win via diplo, I had 8-10 puppet cities when I started saving up my culture for Cristo Redentor. Full control over those would have meant less money wasted, more culture buildings, etc. Would just have to make sure national wonders like hermitage were built before annexing. It would also mean you could found more cities yourself if needed.

 

[DonChipotle]

I think you've convinced me it would make it faster. I'm curious how much faster, though.

So the main benefit comes from having more science and gold from direct control over the cities? I was just thinking the cultural benefit of all these cities wouldn't be so huge.

You'd probably need to build several courthouses (unless maybe you finished the piety tree before annexing). You couldn't rush buy 8-10 opera houses + museums + broadcast towers; there's no way you'd have THAT much gold. So the whole thing's a little delayed. In addition, you probably wouldn't have a wonder in each one, so no bonus from constitution. If you wait for hermitage to finish before you do this, that's even more time.

It just seems like it would take so many turns to get those all cities to be producing significant culture that it would eat into the benefit.

Anyone actually try it?

 

[sanabas]

In this game, my capital was at ~120 cpt, but my empire was at ~400 cpt. Lots from CS, admittedly, but plenty from puppet cities.

Hermitage can be had relatively early, and by ignoring both Iron working & masonry, it means the puppets are forced to build useful stuff until you finish Hermitage anyway. Then you can annex the cities, buy a caravel or two to meet the rest of the world, and continue to build useful stuff while researching the bottom level of the tech tree.

Anyway, this game was a 1730 finish. 2 warrior + scoutarcher rush was very helpful for taking two early cities, I took far too long to take any more though. And the starting location wasn't great, couldn't build Hydro plant nor solar plant, and needed 15 turns to build utopia. Again, my science speed was more than fine, Cristo Redentor went up in 1530, and a puppet started the Apollo Program at the end, but my culture speed was the limiting factor.

Sadly, I think an early (first 40 turns) rush is going to be required for a really fast date for any victory condition. I can see a lot of games being restarted when the initial scout build doesn't get a free upgrade to archer.

 

[aTobin]

Started a new game and discover 3gold mines+river, only grassland/hills within 3 hexes from my start possition, wow... But after i explored my island i also discovered that there was just 2 cityu states on it, no civilizations at all on a bigg island like that

 

[DrakenKin]

Started a new game and discover 3gold mines+river, only grassland/hills within 3 hexes from my start possition, wow... But after i explored my island i also discovered that there was just 2 cityu states on it, no civilizations at all on a bigg island like that

Speaking of this, an idea would be to have a separate top 10 for culture wins in isolated start. There's a lot of interesting challenges to explore there if you can't have puppets. (I'd give it a shot if i roll an isolated start myself.)

 

[vontos]

Aesthetics -> Philanthropy -> Scholaticism -> Cultural diplomacy -> Unlocking the freedom tree -> Constitution.

Why not Educated Elite? Taking one more policy before waiting would only add one or two turns in the end at most right? Even if you only get artists and generals, wouldn't the golden ages from five or six of those be worth a turn or two at least? And if you happen to get scientists and engineers, you could get the Cristo 20+ turns sooner. Would that subtract more than one or two turns from the final time? I guess now that I think about it more, it might not make much of a difference either way.

 

[iggymnrr]

I looked at some numbers from my game and was surprised that a broadcast tower had no impact at all, a complete waste of scientist and money. I also questioned maritime and tried a game without using them for a while. Inconclusive. The finish time was off by exactly the delay in eliminating AI. They were blocked by choke points and CSs, creating both a delay in capturing and expensive roads. Funny there was only one maritime on the map this time too -- on other continent. Military CS were my best friend too, mucho GPs.

Makes a person wonder about Engineering the Louvre and maybe Hermitage early.

 

[Xger]

I looked at some numbers from my game and was surprised that a broadcast tower had no impact at all, a complete waste of scientist and money. I also questioned maritime and tried a game without using them for a while. Inconclusive. The finish time was off by exactly the delay in eliminating AI. They were blocked by choke points and CSs, creating both a delay in capturing and expensive roads. Funny there was only one maritime on the map this time too -- on other continent. Military CS were my best friend too, mucho GPs.

Makes a person wonder about Engineering the Louvre and maybe Hermitage early.

I feel like where the Broadcast tower comes in the tech tree is the problem. You have two techs that open, one being the Cristo Redentor, the other being the one with tower. Obviously the CR is better, and by this time, you should be really close to finishing anyway, by the judge of these entries.

 

[PrA]

Hello everyone, I came across this website when I was trying to get some strategies to improve my civ 5 gameplay and found this interesting competition. I played a little of civ III some years back and now I'm really enjoying civ V.

Anyway here is my submition, I tried to follow some tips available in this topic and managed to achieve a cultural victory at 1933 AD after 353 turns. I started an early warmongering and managed to beat Montezuma and Ramses which were the only leaders estabilished on my continent. I used their cities as puppets and only expanded once (dunno if it was the right choice though). Then I just rushed world wonders, IPs form CSs and unlocked the 2 free social policies from the piety cultural tree.

Since this was my first attempt and I don't have a lot of experience with the civ franchise, I am proud of my end result.

Here are the saves:
View attachment CivFanatics-HoF-Cultural-Arabia-Start.Civ5Save

View attachment CivFanatics-HoF-Cultural-Arabia-Victory.Civ5Save

 

[oPlaiD]

Another game...

1650AD
Turn 240

I had Cristo at turn 219 but apparently I just didn't have enough Culture saved up at the time. I did not get a Great Engineer for Cristo this game like I have in most of my other ones, either, since I was trying to get more Scientists. The problem is my first puppet city, the Iroquis capital I nabbed at like turn 30, produced two Great Artists over the course of the game and stopped me from getting some Scientists a little bit faster. Granted the Culture was really the limiting factor. Getting a Broadcast tower 9 turns or so earlier would have been nice but really I needed to do something a little earlier in the game to get the culture moving, or else not have taken so many policies early since I did go for Tradition.

Probably be my last game, I bet I can keep improving as I have every one I've played so far but it's getting to be a bit of a chore. Need a new HoF to tackle

 

[Xger]

I shaved 40 turns off my previous go (from 350 to 311). The sub 250 are nuts. Does that mean I'm not going to keep trying? Of course not. I wonder though how well someone could do with the start I had.

Of the workable squares, 75% were on a river, there was 3 wheat flood plains and about 10 hills. Sugar and silver in the workable range, marble just outside that.

If someone wants to try, here is the save. I probably could have done better, but Rome was annoying to get to behind the mountains.

 

[DonChipotle]

Just finished, 1916 AD victory, turn 336 (I think). I made my start save on turn 1 instead of turn 0 so I don't think I can actually submit it.

Key learnings:
* I think going one city is the key here. I was planning to go two. I saw a great site for a production city and took it, which eventually built the Utopia Project in 11 turns. At one point I did a calculation and decided to annex a third city. However, I forgot about the hermitage or something, because later I realized my capitol was producing the lions share of the culture. The other two cities, not so much.

* Don't invade city states! I did that this game, twice, because of missions which I thought would make it easier to make other city states allies. Later I found out it increases the rate your friendship erodes. Instead, focus on gold and ally with as many as possible (maritime and cultural).

Funny things that happened:
* Twice a city state gifted me a great person that it had a mission for me to get.

* I made an early research agreement, not really understanding how they work. I ended up getting Theology, rather than a number of other techs I had ignored while beelining to the Renaissance (horseback riding?). Was this just crazy lucky? Gave me a nice boost anyway.

 

[Tyshalle]

All right, second try-- 1915 this time around. You guys are pretty darned good. I was ultimately less than satisfied with my map this time, given that my home continent had only 2 cultural CS and Washington and Hiawatha had 5 cities between them. I found a second continent late, and the 3 cultural CS there gave me a nice late-game bonus, but I had likely fallen way behind already. Nonetheless, I shaved 9 turns of my previous best, and can only get better from here.

I look forward to the next competition, time to finish off some of the other achievements first...

 

[Xicivilian]

I finished my second game and I improved the grand total of 1 turn, so 359 turns: 1939 AD finished. The beginning went very well, but in the middle part it took me to long before I managed to get some fine puppets. Also did go too later for CSs. If I am going to try one more time, I will definitelly save cultural points instead of spending them at once (I know you can, but wanted to see if I could improve my first game).

But again learned a lot and definitelly respect for all finished way earlier then me. When is the second Beta Gauntlet due?

EDIT: Forgot saves. Win Save is too big, but the Perl converter does not work either. So made it a .rar.

 

[iggymnrr]

Pitfalls:

Had a promising start. At turn 20 some yo-yo settled a city right by Mecca. It came from who knows how far away. WTH??? So I spent 200 on a warrior and 2-warrior rushed it. Got the city and 100 gold in the peace treaty. At turn 64 I had the GL 1-turn ready w/scientist and Theology 2 turns out. So I moved the Oracle up. Catastrophe! Someone on the other continent finished the Oracle, it was removed from the queue and the GL auto-finished. There I was, at turn 65, having to pick a free tech with Theology 1 turn away.

 

[DonChipotle]

There I was, at turn 65, having to pick a free tech with Theology 1 turn away.

If you force end turn (shift + enter) you can avoid choosing the free tech at least until you finish your current research. This isn't considered an exploit, is it?

 

[iggymnrr]

^Thanks for the tip!

I've done some more testing with the idea of using only 4-6 SPs before saving up for Christo. Just about any start can be in the Renn era between turns 66-70 with an AI capitol in hand. There is enough time to build a warrior and buy a warrior and library. Two warriors, with saved up XPs from barbs, and a scout will take out most capitols. Scout pinches worker while two warriors attack. Next turn heal and take city. SPs: 2 in tradition and 2 in freedom with at most 2 more to be used if necessary.

Going tradition obviates marble starts and grows faster, freedom is obvious. Patronage for maritime is dubious with a lot of puppets. Often 3/4 of food gets wasted, hardly worth spending both policies and money on it unless you want the science or GPs. The 20 minimum influence is an illusion which really only lets a person trespass harmlessly. Once the decision has been made to maintain a CS, a person never comes near the minimum which can be gotten by some small quest initially without spending a policy for it.

My opening tech is AH. Easier to get on to the next start if no horse. Also, cows, sheep and deer (trapping) are remarkably good early.

Edit: Taking out an AI capitol early often leaves opportunies for gaining initial influence with CSs. Kind of like killing two birds with one stone. If not, only 4 policies have been bought so 2 in Patronage are still available.

 

[Sabrenity]

Hey.

1911AD 8( Looks like I'm mental challenged 8((

 

[vitorbaixinho]

Here is my new Gauntlet I victory.
Only one city Without marble.
I had one archer upgrade for my scout on an ancient ruins. Very very useful.
Very soon i tooked washington with a scout, a archer and a warrior.
Unlocked Piety with the oracle. Choose Tradition and Aristrocracy and as soon as possible tooked freedom and the 100% more culture to all cities policy and saved the rest to cristo.
I took one maritme city state and 5 roman cities after washington. And then declared war on persia. All captured cities were turned in puppets.

I think i had few culture per turn during all the game.
I also have problems with science. I cant unlock Cristo very soon. And them still missing culture points for 3-4 policies.
I think i could take washington instead of turned it in puppet.

I finished in 1923. I think i could have done better.

 

[WC-Ente]

OK Guys ... just finished the game in 1615 (233 rounds) ...

First i have to say this is a great thread to learn how to play civ 5

this is what i attended to:
-have one city, but many puppet cities
-have a good starting position with: marble,1 other luxury or more, long river (build next to it!), some wheat(at least 2) many hills (production is really important, more than food, i'd say, because your city gets much food from maritim CS), horses would be fine too but its not that important because u probably get horses from CS, coast to explore other conts, and most important is to have other civilizations near by


----> i had: marble,1 other luxury (3 ivory) long river, 4 wheat in 3 hex radius, 6 hills (wasnt that much ), horses, NO coast (i explored other civs and CS with 3 scouts as soon as i got navigation and met all other civs and CS really fast, 1 civilization near by and 4 in range but on same continent

In the beginning i puppet Kyoto with 1 warrior and 1 speerman(got from hut) therefor i build a warrior instead of a scout and had my first puppet city within 14 rounds i think. The other civs settled far away so i decided to take a military CS next to my city with the same army (to puppet a city state with 1 warrior and 1 spearman u need to have free promotions to ur spearman and/or warrior at the beginning of the war to recover them immediately. So i got 2 puppet cities in round about 30 turns. They gave me a good advantage to my research to fastly reseach acoustic for the additional food bonus from maritim CS. Of course u must be allied with him but that costs money. To get much money u should often trade with other civs. Try to trade everything u got: open borders, luxury(if u can release some), strategy resources... But its important to explore the world to met other civs and CS to get money and culture/food bonus. I built Chizzen Itza befor the 500-happiness-golden-age.
I took more puppet cities with a 3-horse-army and my empire grew.

The limitating factor for me to get a fast win was culture ... i built cristo many turns faster than starting the utopia project. So u should focus on culture not too late! The main city and cultural CS (20 culture points per CS at the end) are the main culture producer. 1 Puppet city produced at the end of the game 9 Culture points per turn ... so u should get many puppet cities if they should produce many CP too but than ur happiness drops down ... balance it

My policy way was: 2 tradition 5 patronage and 2 freedom ---> save up ... but i think of getting the culture bonus from Piety and take happiness policy from patronage too and then save up ... dont know if this helps

I bought the most buildings and concentrated on getting wonders!
At the end i noticed that i had no coal in my empire but i solved this problem by puppet a maritim allied CS with coal in the borders

---> have a high research at the beginning and many culture points per turn later and be able to change over to a huge production to get those key wonders and utopia!

yeah .... i hope i can help u with this review ... if u have questions just ask here

peace up