Civ V - Beta 2

[IneffableBob]

Attempt #3. Turn 525, 1935. Good news: I'm consistent, all three games right around turn 520-525. Bad news: that's pretty slow. Anyone have suggestions, other than lowering the sea level (which I prefer not to do, I kinda like the islands)?

Used the following rules:
- Medium sea level.
- OK to save up culture policy choices.
- Must take free tech as soon as it's available (though saving Great Scientists is OK)
- No restrictions on puppets, or units used.

Diplomacy/Conquest/Expansion: Almaty (militaristic CS) was on my starting continent, so I conquered them as a puppet almost immediately. I also founded a second city on my small starting island very quickly, so I had three cities which pretty much filled up the island. Met Rome on another island just to the south on turn 87, and Russia on a different island just to the east on turn 102. Got lucky to find Iron right by Washington, so built a bunch of Swordsmen to conquer the Romans. Took forever but finally finished them on turn 193. Then conquered the Russians on turn 228. It was turn 245 before I finally met my first Maritime city-state. By turn 260 I had starting annexing some of the better puppet cities. Around turn 340 I'd annexed both Rome and Moscow, and took another puppet from the English, and allied all the Maritime city states. Once Taj Mahal was built I made peace and used the Golden Age to push through techs and improve my cities. Coal showed up on my island this time, no need to roam the world in search of it. Same with Aluminum. Then on turn 425 both the English and Persians decided to declare war on me out of the blue. I was concerned, but other than one caravel (which I sunk), I didn't see them at all for 30 turns, and then the Persians gave me 300 gold to make peace. My kind of war.

Policies: Tradition-Aristocracy in the early turns. Patronage (turn 115)-Philanthropy (179)-Scholasticism (232)-Aesthetics (253)-Educated Elite (289), Freedom (339)-Civil Society (399), Order (461)-Socialism (510)

Wonders: Great Library (turns 61-86). Started Stonehenge on turn 87 but someone else got it on turn 92. Built Chichen Itza on turn 275. Someone beat me to the Porcelain Tower on turn 278 (I was 9 turns away). Taj Mahal on turn 348. In turn 420 I got a Great Engineer who I used to hurry the Forbidden Palace. Big Ben built on turn 443. Apollo Program on turn 460. BUilt the Louvre on turn 465, using the artists for golden age turns. And Eiffel Tower on turn 506, just on general principles.

Technology: Got Mining first to take advantage of the Gold near my start. After getting Animal Husbandry, Pottery, Writing, and Calendar, made a run through Sailing and Optics. Then used the Great Library to get Compass, and swung back through Philosophy, then Bronze and Iron Working. Got the Wheel from a ruin. Then back for Masonry, Construction, Archery, Trapping, Mathematics. Got Civil Service and Metal Casting from research agreements. Then Currency, Steel, Engineering, Horseback Riding, Machinery, Chivalry, Banking, Navigation, Physics, Printing Press, Economics, Gunpowder, Chemistry, Military Science, Acoustics, Scientific Theory, and Steam Power. Got Railroad with a Great Scientist in 383. Then on to Replaceable Parts, Archaeology, Biology, and Electricity. Then I grabbed Radio, Radar, and Rocketry with Great Scientists (turn 422), and Satellites with another on 433. Then Telegraph and Electronics, after which I used more GS on Mass Media and Computers. Got Robotics for free from Oxford University on turn 448. Then Refrigeration, Plastics, and Penicillin. GS for Ecology. Researched Globalization, then another Great Scientist for Particle Physics, and finally Nanotechnology. (I got Great Scientists at turns 200, 247, 295, 318, 377, 384, 433, 464, and 478. Most of them were saved until later in the tech tree, as described above.)

 

[Katananga]

Do you always turn off ruins, and if not how do you feel it affects competitive balance? Even without a ridiculous cho-ko-no slingshot. Did the game feel more even or less so than others you've played? (I saw English pike by like turn 13 or something in a game the other night.)

I think, it affects balance in this certain setting. The AI cant handle archipelago very well and is ignoring ruins (except on their own island). How many ruins get a human player usually on continents / pangea / earth? 5 or 6? The good rewards like free technologies and upgrading you units are balanced to this number and not to guaranteed 15+ ruins every game

 

[DrakenKin]

Epic speed is a bit slow for my liking

Oh yes I forgot to mention the pain that is Epic speed in my post... There are a few ideas I want to try but I really don't feel or have the time to do epic again.

I believe since this is a new game and we are still learning and experimenting, a faster speed is better so we can try different things quickly. Maybe epic+ speed should be left for much later challenges.

How many ruins get a human player usually on continents / pangea / earth? 5 or 6?

If I get 5 early game I consider myself very lucky. Usually on continents ruins will be explored very fast by scouts from the AI, and since the human player usually concentrate on rushing very fast you don't usually get more than 2-3 ruins. (Two warriors first, followed by a scout or a warrior can't scout large areas quickly.)

 

[vitorbaixinho]

Here it is. My first personal victory unlocking the 1800s barrier.

By the late times was pissed off when three super powers declared war on me. Two of them i only see boats. The other one landed and surrounded one of my cities with musks, pykes, a crossbow and galleys and to my antonishment they succeded in not take the city. Very impressive assuming i have only one longsword nearby. A few turns later i popped there with a battleship and a destroyer...
Resuming. In islands AI sucks. Or the difficult level is to low?
By the other side in the beginning i had a lot of difficults in take two astec cities surrounded by jungles and jaguars. Only with the discover of Iron Working i was able to conquest those cities.

 

[vitorbaixinho]

Forgot to mention how i missed the airports of CivIIV when had to travel to capital by sea with a SSbooster with the ocean repleted off english frigates.
Also i forgot to build a harbor in the capital to connect railroads to all my ultramaritme puppet cities. Only by the late times i purchased a harbor in Washington.

 

[Suliz]

turn 592 - 1971AD

Well I learned a few things along the way.

Other than the options specified in the rules for this contest, I left all the settings at their default values.

Notes:

1. Making peace with a city state, then healing your units right next to his city and attacking again tends to piss off the other cities states, Go figure. This was only turn 40, and I had permanent war with 3 city states as a result of that decision.

2. Need to be more careful about managing happiness early. I built a settler about turn 115, which would have been my fourth city (one other colony, plus the aforementioned city-state). My people were so unhappy I didn't dare use the settler for about 35 turns.

3. Low production was a thorn in my side for most of the game (and one of the reasons the happiness issue took so long to solve.)

4. AI's poor sea going abilities make sending a couple of ground units plus a tireme on a long-term walkabout a very lucrative prospect. Clearing out ruins and encampments early on, and after getting a few upgrades through ruins (original scout was a rifleman), started targeting city-states.

5. Almost gave up about turn 375. I was under the illusion that the game would end at turn 500. I kept playing (tech win seemed impossible, but I was still looking at my first king victory), and eventually realized the year was too low for the turn number. Still, must have spent 50 turns or so not pushing in the direction of a tech victory.

6. For most of the game I only used a handful of ground units. Naval and later on, air power softened up targets nicely. (loved my B-17!)

7. Towards the end, the number of Barbie tireme's got out of hand a little. While they were no threat to my destroyer's or carrier, I did have to be cautious to ensure they didn't get one of spaceship parts.

8. Didn't build a single road the entire game, except at the very end (3 of my spaceship manufacturing centres were offshore, and due to paranoia on my part, I was unwilling to risk them being in the water any longer than necessary, so I built one road from their landing point to the capital. It saved me 3 turns at the end )

9. Enjoyed playing with some of the more advanced military units. Got to try out Helicopter gunships, aircraft carriers, guided missiles etc. My last spaceship part crossed the ocean surrounded by 4 destroyers, 1 battleship and 1 carrier (with 2 fighters). Plus the B-17 was within range most of the trip. Of course, by that point, the Barbarians were probably the most dangerous opponent on the board.

10. I didn't build a single cultural building during the entire game. Of course, some of the wonders have cultural bonuses and I couldn't control what the puppets did. Not sure if this was a good idea or not, but will probably try it again. Perhaps because I wasn't planning on getting policy choices and possibly because of my issues with happiness and gold, but my policy choices seem almost random in retrospect.

Anyway, I think I will give it another shot.

 

[iggymnrr]

Another bad Washington start:

1784 AD win from an isolated start with no CSs or AI around, ruins off. Tried an ICS approach and spammed 23 cities and grabbed one more when I went to war ~ turn 225. Not sure how well this works in isolation on archipelago. Game crashed ~1685 so I may not submit it.

 

[IneffableBob]

1784 AD win from an isolated start with no CSs or AI around, ruins off. Tried an ICS approach and spammed 23 cities and grabbed one more when I went to war ~ turn 225. Not sure how well this works in isolation on archipelago. Game crashed ~1685 so I may not submit it.

23 cities? How did you keep from being permanently very unhappy?

 

[Fnugus]

Okay, this is my first play through in Civ 5, and I think I made a bunch of mistakes underway... But I found that having 6-7 productive cities were quite useful, and then I more or less puppeteered the rest of the world... Won in 1984, so I guess there's room for improvement, but I ended up with around 40 cities or more, I think (haven't counted, though)... Balancing economy was difficult, but happy didn't seem to be much of an issue...

View attachment Fnug2Won.Civ5Save

 

[ssjos]

Win by 1560. (Turn 332)

Early tech for sailing (for scouting) and acoustics for food bonus. Allie with martime states. Built 2 cities of my own and then I went to war and made everyone my puppet.
Spammed tradeposts with rationalism science bonus.

Bought quite alot of buildings lateron.


I find that it takes forever to end your turn lateron in the game. Has anyone got a solution to this? I got a modern computer but it can still take like 30-90 seconds to process end turn and it is really annoying if you dont have much to do other than press end turn.

 

[tissue]

Hello all,

I am totally new to this HOF thing. But decided to give it a try. Mainly because of the fun stories and nice tips in the beta 1 game thread.

I had a too small island to start with, with just a tiny river. When I explored the map with my galleys i spotted some islands with new luxuries. I settled 2 new cities on the other side of the map. That might have been my biggest mistake in the game, because these two cities havent been very productive the entire game. I also underestimated the brillance of those sea resources! If you have 3 worked by a city it is pretty nice!!!

The epic speed was interesting. I noticed the techs went as quickly as standard speed only building stuff was very slow. Maybe that has much too do with the tactic and the map.

I captured about 6 puppet cities with my caravel navy. Rest of the game was peaceful. With the capturing i got some nice resources but also unhappiness. I wanted these puppets to build tradeposts for extra science.

View attachment beta 2 start.Civ5Save

View attachment beta 2 end.Civ5Save


Eventually I build all my spaceparts with the first 2 cities I have founded. And launched in 1930.

Grtz Tissue

 

[iggymnrr]

23 cities? How did you keep from being permanently very unhappy?

4 SPs in liberty. Settle cities very close together and get collos/libs in early. Short roads make for $ trade routes. It also might work better if the "Avoid Growth" option in the city menu worked. As currently programmed that check box is merely window dressing.

 

[pagh80]

Win by 1560. (Turn 332)

Early tech for sailing (for scouting) and acoustics for food bonus. Allie with martime states. Built 2 cities of my own and then I went to war and made everyone my puppet.
Spammed tradeposts with rationalism science bonus.

Bought quite alot of buildings lateron.


I find that it takes forever to end your turn lateron in the game. Has anyone got a solution to this? I got a modern computer but it can still take like 30-90 seconds to process end turn and it is really annoying if you dont have much to do other than press end turn.

Nice date.
But could you please tell me the secret of how to prevent the puppets from making useless buildings?
Exept from armory none of your puppet cities have made any of the following buildings:
Forge, Military acadamy, Stables or Walls.
And they have made very expensive buildings like research lab and stadiums.
From my experience that is very strange behavior.
Have there been a patch out that im not aware of?

 

[Ozbenno]

One thing that I think would be worth adding in the gauntlet rules is the sea level. Seems a lot of folks are switching to low to make the Archipelago map more like a "Small Continents" map. The game plays quite a bit differently if you have more connected land masses. I'm not saying that's necessarily a bad thing, but it would make more sense to me if everyone was doing the same sea level.

Once the official tables are up and running, we won't seperate the options for each map script, just adds too many tables/conditions. If options are optional, each person has to consider which gives the best conditions for the game.

 

[DrakenKin]

It also might work better if the "Avoid Growth" option in the city menu worked. As currently programmed that check box is merely window dressing.

Next patch (coming in a few days) will enable that option, you won't have any growth if you don't want to.

Exept from armory none of your puppet cities have made any of the following buildings:
Forge, Military acadamy, Stables or Walls.
And they have made very expensive buildings like research lab and stadiums.

I noticed that if I am very low on happiness my cities will make stadiums. Also noticed that cities bordering other civs make walls early, while other cities inside my territory won't make them if at all.

I think puppets do similar things to what the advisers are saying. For example if a puppet reaches high population, it will make universities and research labs. I noticed this in one of my games when I had 7+ maritimes very early. In another game where I lacked maritimes and had a lot of culture and military CS, I had very few research buildings by the end. Most of my cities had a library only.

As for forge I have no idea what triggers the puppet into making them, but there might be a production threshold beyond (or below) which forges will be prioritized.

And as you already know you can beeline techs on the upper side and completely skip masonry and bronze working for a very long time, forcing your cities to build more useful things. Often I skip them completely until I hit biology. (Especially when you settle on marble like it was possible in TS2.)

After biology your research is very fast, meaning you will unlock many advanced techs quickly which gives your cities more useful things to build than walls and stables. (Banks, other happiness buildings, etc.)

Also next starting next patch puppets won't be able to make any buildings that require resources (like factories / coal), so this might also help reduce some of the maintenance.

 

[iggymnrr]

If you want some idea of what an imperfect ICS looks like, here is a sample. Even settled a 1-tile island, Portland.

 

[playshogi]

1788.

I had a good start on a large landmass with 4 city-states only. There turned out to be only 1 militaristic city-state on the map. Standard ICS play followed, ending up with 20 cities. 4 cities only until I could bulb my way to the idustrial age which happened in 775 AD. Social policies: 3 in Liberty leading to Meritocracy. 3 in Commerce leading to Merchant Navy and 4 in Order leading to Communism. The maritime civs are reminiscent of Sid Sushi, and the 8 hammers/city from Merchant Navy and Communism are like Mining Corp. You could and I did, (for aluminum) put cities in the snow and have a strong city. One of my allies was getting creamed by Alex's ancient era units, so I gifted Stockholm 1 infantry. Stockholm proceeded to capture Sparta (razed, despite granting me cotton and sugar) and Athens with that 1 infantry and supporting musketman. If it had had the good sense to let the thing heal, Stockholm could've wiped out Alex.

 

[avl8]

turn 368, 1716 AD

Imho quite a good start for a HoF newbie, reading this topic greatly enhanced my strategy and game skill.

Early game
Ive got rather strange start - 3 wheat, river and furs. No marble, quite bad ive told myself. Then ive scouted the place and found 2 maritime CS and 2 more civs.
That was great on a low sea setting!

Teched like this:
Pottery-Mining-Writing (ruin:Calendar)- Animal husbandry-Trapping (furs!) -
-Philosophy (GL: Civil service)

I bought settler rather late and expanded on spices and horses. Went HBR and started warfare at approximately turn 100+. China spawned like 10+ units so ive took em out with a combo of 2 horsemen, 3 archers and chariot archer.
At this time both ai expanded, Hiawatha got 5 cities and China 2. Means 7 puppets and 2 cities of mine.

Middlegame
Game plan was to get deep into both order and rationalism, so i needed all culture i could get.
So i beelined to acoustics for maritime bonuses and those nice culture boosters which my puppet army started to build with eager.
Then took astronomy for overseas trades/more puppet-show.

Then biology to unlock order policies and steampower to boost production.

During these times ive made 3 RA with Persia. Ive used the trick of investing 1 turn of research into teches i dont wanted to get, it worked fine as in another games ive played. And 3rd time Darius DoWed on me so ive got my Telegraph (was pure luck since there was many options).

Policies i took:
Tradition x2 as i wanted to keep up with other civs without marble
Patronage x3 scholasticism helped alot during middle game
Rationalism x5 got secularism/free thought at 1st, saved scintific revolution till the end, used last policy on humanism to keep up with happiness in lategame (+10 happiness oO)
Order x4 planned economy and communism are definetely out of balance imho

Lategame
I farmed great scientists, stacked all random great artists from my puppets/louvre and great generals all the game.

Then i went "all in" with these combo:

Scientific revolution to unlock Rocketry and started Appolo program under effect of golden age increased production (17 turns). Then got Robotics the same turn Appolo was ready with the help of 2 GS.

Bought 3 space spaceship factories and started boosters. It took me 7/10/13 turns to build all of them, so ive used another artist to prolong GA.

Unlocked Sattelites and got cockpit while getting to globalization. To make a fast research ive annexed 2 more cities and microed them for max science output. To help things speed even more ive took lots of tiles from another cities with tradeposts and jungle tiles. Got like 1150 beakers per turn at peak times.

This time golden age ends only to begin when i hit globalization and unlock particle physics with a fresh GS.
Then my second production city started ss engine. So comes nanotech and my capital made ss stasis chamber.
To finish it ive had to burn 3 artists and gg (5+3+3+3 turns) which was a nice end of a weird science race

Pros
Carefully planned burst during late game was fun. In fact, reading this topic inspired me to chain GAs, great insight for a scientific victories!

Warfare versus AIs was practically endless. That gave me ggs, puppets, more beakers, gold and more culture to spend. The funniest moment was when Darius DoWed. Then his scout swam around my cities only to get nailed by my archer. Then i waited like 20 turns for his troops/ships to come but none came! Then ive made peace and he started to trade like there was no war he just declared!

Cons
I screwed up city specialization for sure. Had to make 2nd city production/gp farm instead of commerce/science. That way ive got 1 great artist instead of scientist i desperately needed during middle game.

During early game ive took 1 or 2 useless puppets. E.g. no additional luxury resources but lots of unhappiness. This delayed growth of my capital by 1 even 2 population at the end. Which means ive got less production i could get.

Dunno mb Commerce branch with a nice discount is better than Order for means of production. In the end ive bought like 15-20 buildings and could buff my cities even more if i got +25% discount.

 

[vcdragoon]

Ship launched in 1847. Lost about 40 turns due to extreme unhappiness because I forgot to cap growth in cities. I'm an idiot.

Marble start, but no other civ on island with one military CS. Crap.

Tried something new, went straight 3 into patronage for scholasticism then saved culture for 4 in order. After getting 4 in order, spammed small cities. In the meantime, grabbed up 6 puppets total on 2 separate islands (russia and songhai). Spent the rest of the game in a state of war with india/germany/japan/siam/hiawatha.

Did have 5 maritime CS allied for 90% of the game.

 

[milk_milk]

Win by 1560. (Turn 332)

I find that it takes forever to end your turn lateron in the game. Has anyone got a solution to this? I got a modern computer but it can still take like 30-90 seconds to process end turn and it is really annoying if you dont have much to do other than press end turn.

Dont load from the ingame Its a bug, your savegame grows in size, on and on and on, the more u load. If u load, go to the main menu and do it from there.

btw. u shouldnt reload in a gauntlet game as far as i know, just play it straight through