Civ V - Beta 4

[vcdragoon]

Horses. Domination. /shrug

Turn 90, probably would have been sub 80 if the RNG had not placed 3 civ capitals deep in the "Great Forest."

Started in the NW corner, mountain area. Had 4 horses next to capital when I was done researching AH. Honor tree down to double xp. First 2 horses went with the GG from SP east. Next 2 horses went south, followed by 2 chariot archers. They all ended up hip deep in marsh/trees to get to the final 2 capitals.

Too much of of CiV is dependent on the RNG for map generation. And not to beat a dead horse, but something significant needs to change about horses in the ancient/classical era. This wasn't a challenge, rather it was a race to see whether I could find the optimal pathing to get to the enemy capitals as fast as I could.

Without instant heals, probably another 8 turns at most.

/shrug

 

[GuiMauro]

As already mentioned earlier, there is no reason to play any strategy other than horse rush in this version. If the game speed were marathon there might be some merit to using an early warrior rush upgrading to swords and keeping on going, but as it is right now this is just execute a basic strategy as fast as possible. It would also make more sense to let people play from a fixed save, since start position is such a big deal, I guarantee anyone who gets a zero horse start is not winning.

I agree.
The reason I had fun doing it was just simple -> never done it before.

To those who ever did it then this week patch looks that they are listening and slowing improving the game (previous is just an example of what a proper game testing would had avoid). Unfortunatly it is plagued by a bad decision on how the game engine is implemented, since I see no reason for a game to use 2 Gb of extra memory after just ~20 turns playing in graphic setting that would had been outdated when Civ 2 was released. (not to mention that once it reach that certain ammount of memory use the game crashes)

 

[twilson1111]

Turn 105.

I think that once I get a feel for how many horses it takes to overtake cities later on, I'll get below 90 turns.

 

[Methos]

And not to beat a dead horse, but something significant needs to change about horses in the ancient/classical era.

I don't know exactly what it is, but the upcoming patch is modifying them.

Melee horse units combat value lowered, and now receive a penalty when attacking cities.

I'm really curious what the change is and until this gauntlet is complete, I'm turing auto-update off. Hopefully they fix it and don't just screw it over entirely.

 

[vcdragoon]

I agree.
The reason I had fun doing it was just simple -> never done it before.

To those who ever did it then this week patch looks that they are listening and slowing improving the game (previous is just an example of what a proper game testing would had avoid). Unfortunatly it is plagued by a bad decision on how the game engine is implemented, since I see no reason for a game to use 2 Gb of extra memory after just ~20 turns playing in graphic setting that would had been outdated when Civ 2 was released. (not to mention that once it reach that certain ammount of memory use the game crashes)

To follow up on the Civ 2 line, Horseman rushing is strangely reminiscent of the great "chariots across the world" strategy from Civ 2.

 

[twilson1111]

Finished in T86.

Started in the NW corner. Had 4 horses at first city, and settled a second city on 4 more. Both cities had good food output too.

Aside from building monuments, I pumped out horses as fast as possible (buying the majority). It's pretty clear that lots of buildings in this game (barracks, stable, etc) aren't really a good idea to build, since they just delay the amount of horses you can get out.

I could have optimized a few more turns maybe, but can't think of any real mistakes, except for perhaps not taking quite enough risks with my army (8 horses descended on the final town from all directions - only needed 3).

Anyhow, feeling pretty good about this, having shaved 20 turns off of my prev attempt.

 

[kcd_swede]

Finish t131, which is faster than I thought I would do. Horse rush, but without horses in start position had to warrior rush the nearest neighbor that did.

Lost a lot of time because couldn't get peace after taking capitols... had to kill other cities first which wasted time. Also, had 1 civ that took a long time to find, hidden in mountains... and the first attempt had 2horsemen +1war chariot which fell just barely short of that needed (one single instaheal at the right time would have sufficed to take off many turns).

At least I was situated near the middle so could get troops where needed pretty quickly. Maybe was too slow getting second stack going. With Lots of tedious logistics I might be able to break the 100t mark. Maybe I try again later.

I used the per turn trade for gold before dow exploit about 4 times. Forgot to do it on the first few civs, though. Maybe they didn't have much to exploit at that point anyhow. My only ruins luck netted me map, gold, and culture (culture was ok for quick GG from civics, though).

One thing I notice, is that spearmen who are guarding a resource won't attack horsemen even if the horseman is on the 1 tile between the spear and the capitol. How long does it think it will keep that resource protected if it loses the city???

Bizarro.

View attachment 273182

View attachment 273183

 

[NoImagination]

76. Didn't get wheel from hut, was in a corner of the map, two capitals deep into forest, but did have oasis & horses to start with. The initial oasis is strong - second city was down on turn 15.

I went worker til 2 pop, settler, back to worker, horse chariot. Settled second city on 2 horses. Then it's a matter of finding everyone.

Are we allowed to try again on the same map? Gotta try for turn 71 now...

 

[Methos]

Are we allowed to try again on the same map? Gotta try for turn 71 now...

No. You can try again (as many times as you like), but each attempt has to be on a different map.

 

[tommynt]

turn 58 - think game was quite ok played. Didnt pop any tech. Start in middle of map helped.
Abused AI badly - did trade and decalre war with nearly all of em in 1 turn when I finished horse tech to buy 2 right away.

2 horses on each side is totaly enough, in fact even 1 d be enough if u have 1 or 2 scouts/warris for flanking bonus.

Was semi lucky with huts got 2 poppops - whats quite strong as it also speeds teching, but not really much else - loads of maps and barb notification in 2nd round of huts (the ones at map ends).

Think faster might be possible with poping tech (then for sure), having a bigger horse res in cap (I only got a 2 one) or spreading units faster. Or abusing ai even more (trade/war more early to get 2 rounds of cash)
As for civis i think instead of settler/worker bonus it might be better to go military path for a general to have a kinda early ga. More then 2 cities are a waste anyway (got a 3rd as I needed more horse ...). But not sure on that. workers u can steel a lot from cs.

edit: just had some nasty idea about abusing ai even more but well not sure if it d help, with having a unit kinda early at all of em (build 2 more scouts as u d usually do) u could stop all expanding and killing only 1 city d speed game even more

 

[NoImagination]

Bah, just as I'd beaten my last one. 69 turns. The main problem is getting units to reach the civs in the mountains and forests. I had killed the first 4 civs by about turn 45. It also sounds like I use a lot more horse archers than most...

Oh well. Time to roll for a mid-map start.

 

[tommynt]

U need midmap start imo and go for furthest civ 1. not for closest

@pagh: I tend to build lots of scouts, as with huts acctivated they r so powerful,1 hut like cult or pop or tech is just way more worth then having a tile worked a bit more early - thats why I found all civs pretty fast.
There is still enough time to build a worker and a settler in cap untill horses are finaly available

 

[pagh80]

U need midmap start imo and go for furthest civ 1. Not for closest

Agreed that is what have been confusing me with how people have played sofar. Everyone is going for the closest civs first which doesnt seem optimal.
Initial army(2-4 horsemen) should go for furthest civs while your second wave of units can go for the closest civs. Afterall it doesnt matter when you capture your first cap, its only the last cap that matters.

58 turns seems hard to beat though. I guess you have to be really lucky finding the other civs in that amount of turns, and in the 2 games i have played, i always end up spending many turns trying to find the last civ.

Also there is no point in building anything else than military units. Even some warriors before you get horsemen is better than any buildings/wonders.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Also there is no point in building anything else than military units. Even some warriors before you get horsemen is better than any buildings/wonders.

In addition to no Buildings or Wonders, I would assume no Settlers or Workers:

1) Rather than build a Settler, just capture a desirable (original Capital) City.

2) Rather than build any Workers, just capture any number of Workers desired from City States or Civilizations without or with its original Capital, in that order or as preferred based on the tactical/logistical situation.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[kcd_swede]

Is it best just to leave barb encampments alone? 25gold isn't much compared to heal damage time.

Do you keep units at home to prevent barb pillaging of pastures and improvements?

(I had a game that would have beaten 100t which was my goal, except the last civ got landskneckt just before I get there, and gave up after losing too many horsemen to succeed).

Any suggestions on opponents? I've had Askia, Ghandi, Monte, Bismark, Arabia, Washington, Ottomans... are there any of these I should avoid? Any other civs that should be easier to conquer than others? I'm thinking Monte and Bismark aren't optimal...

BTW... I did figure out that there is no need to capture other cities after the capitol, even if they won't make peace. Just wait... they'll offer you everything for peace in a few turns anyhow. Make sure to kill their troops first, though (before taking the capitol, even).

 

[NoImagination]

I think you have to make a settler because you need to settle on horses. I'm coming round to the idea that you might need to settle twice to get sufficient horses, with the 3rd city on turn 40 or so.

I also think you need to make (or buy) a worker because city states don't make them early enough.

You need to be connecting a luxury resources or a horse or even building a road over an inconvenient hill really early.

I ignore barbarians unless I really have to hit them. You can never hit an encampment with a horse for zero damage. You can hit warriors or archers in the open for it though. I've played this through 4 or 5 times now and I don't think have ever lost terrain to pillaging at my original two cities.

I've not tried selecting opponents. Greece and Persia are the obvious ones to avoid.

 

[NoImagination]

56. I can imagine knocking a couple of turns off this if doing it again. No wheel, but did get +1 pop twice (once at 1 pop, once at 2x2 total pop I think). Also popped a knight from a horseman - that was very useful as my scout + knight could take out the last forest capital by themselves, letting me hit a centre civ a little faster.

Centre starts are important. I'm not convinced that popping wheel speeds you up - you need a couple of scouts so that you can find as many civilisations as possible when you hit horse riding. That's so you can then trade & declare war on them. Then you can make peace with the ones you'll hit last and get them in trade/declare abuse three times.

Six starting horses would help a lot too. I had 4, the rest were war chariots.

Oh, and the map's essentially the same each time (is it literally the same?). I can tell which spawn I'm at about 5 turns in now, and thus where all the other civs are.

Finally, I don't think you necessarily need to hit the farthest away first. You do need to leave a middle civ til last so that your new reinforcements can reach him in time, but I essentially had three armies. The first was 3 chariots + initial warrior, then first batch of horses, then reinforcements where need be, then the middle civ.

 

[boehj]

OK, I'm going to do this now. No more procrastination!

Mech Inf & air superiority will be key here. I plan to win in the Modern Era.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

I think you have to make a settler because you need to settle on horses. I'm coming round to the idea that you might need to settle twice to get sufficient horses, with the 3rd city on turn 40 or so.

I would just try a new start if Horses are not within 3 Hexes of the Capital. I would proceed only with 4 Horses.

I also think you need to make (or buy) a worker because city states don't make them early enough.

Maybe just steal a Worker from a nearby Civ. I've seen them plenty early enough to build a Horse Pasture. Steal more Workers as needed.

You need to be connecting a luxury resources or a horse or even building a road over an inconvenient hill really early.

I still say stealing a Worker would result in an earlier Win versus building or buying one.

I ignore barbarians unless I really have to hit them. You can never hit an encampment with a horse for zero damage. You can hit warriors or archers in the open for it though. I've played this through 4 or 5 times now and I don't think have ever lost terrain to pillaging at my original two cities.

Yes, Barbarians seem harmless enough, unless you select Raging Barbarians. Would Raging Barbarians capture enemy AI Capitals for you or are they true pacifists? May have to increase the Difficulty level to get significant help from the Barbarians though. Even, Raging Barbarians on King level may be too wimpy to capture AI capitals. You may have better luck getting the AIs to capture each others Capitals.

I've not tried selecting opponents. Greece and Persia are the obvious ones to avoid.

I haven't either. Just haven't played enough Civ V to be familiar with the strengths and weaknesses of each AI Leader.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[DJMGator13]

I'm really curious what the change is and until this gauntlet is complete, I'm turing auto-update off. Hopefully they fix it and don't just screw it over entirely.

How do you change this setting?