JA_Lamb
Warlord
Hi everyone, I'm newish here and more or less stumbled on this thread while trawling the forum trying to learn how to mod enough to change the game to my liking. I have intermitently played Civilization since it first came out as Civ DOS3.1!! Yes I'm old 
but that only gives me a lot more experience to have tried many games that came and went while CiV continues to re-invent itself.
I must say that the work of numerous people in the modding sections is astounding. What is missing is an easy ability to interface them together and play a totally unique game as one may wish WITHOUT having to learn to code like a professional. xml should be just enough.
The xml base is by far superior to any of the game editors in any other games I have seen. The BtS upgrade allowing for much smaller sections of code to be integrated is a huge step in the right direction. IMO Almost half of the wish list above is already doable with xml and there are enough Custom Mods that could fulfil about 20% more. For example:
# 56 for the Megalopolis/Metropolitan wish would fit nicely with an existing mod that expands a city's "cross" out to 3 tiles per side. but for the city itself to take up more tiles you're right it needs hardcore changes.
# 79 Resources -Bountiful etc
This can easily be set by changing the Random generator within the game. It's already here.
#69 Attack and defence is already possible with xml. the problem is that all units are pre-set to an inoquous 4 for attack (which increases their XP points thus their attack statistics) or 2 for defence which when tweaked increases their defence %(3=25% higher defence etc.). Ever see a scout beat off a 3 stack of Barbarians by himself? It works. I tested it.
You want your helicopter to fly over water? it can. To increase it's range? it can. Increase it's firepower? it can. To transport units? it can. Totally ignore all first strikes by SAM's? It can. All within the xml one line structure. Just think that the xml is a one Label column and one Value column spreadsheet that passes this information to a macro that re-calculates it.
This is not what is missing from CiV. What is missing and thus confined to people without hardcore programming experience is the inability to allow some sort of "call-back" routine that when we, the major proportion of CiV fanatics who cannot code, want to tweak the game by introducing things that were left out, we should be able to (by introducing a line) in the xml section which would then allow the application to re-write itself to include it.( By re-generating the Schema perhaps?)
Maybe I'm asking for the improbable. But I've lived long enough to have seen the world change to an unbelievable degree, so it's not impossible.
A recuring annoyance that requires Hardcore programing? Isn' it ludicrous that we are asked to believe that semi-naked Egyptians, Mayans, Indians and others are trying to work Tundra tiles instead of the fur clad Germans and Brittons because the AI unthinkingly dropped them there? While the game in the Global xml collects the information of a civs ArtStyle it does nothing with it to ameliorate it's placing.
It could easily do this by defining a range of Latitudes that this ArtStyle is available for. This can't be done by xml alone as far as I know as it requires a new line in the Schema which needs hard-core coding to introduce those lines. Far beyond my meagre capabilities, but yet only a matter of a simple additional subroutine.
Another? Increase the number of routes recognisable in the RoutesInfo section to 5 or 6. Allow for pathways, roads, rail, highways, maglevs etc. even if Firaxis does not supply those, Modders will. If it's easy and the base is there, then everyone can include the mods without crashing. What about train stations in towns? Maybe giving extra Commerce? Taverns and Breweries for happy faces? the mods are there how do we the masses include them?
Separate and make very distinct the difference between Gold and Commerce.
Ships actually traveling the trade routes. Maybe only one as a token to conserve computing power, but which can be sunk by a privateer blockading and then regenarated when the blockade is lifted or broken? Don't forget while for the AI the route/s are real, humans tend to play with what they see on the screen and we tend to forget certain things that aren't there but calculated in the background and seen only when we bring up a secondary info screen.
Maybe this could be done as an overlay with different coloured (Player colors) dash lines showing the trade routes from all cities to others. I don't know but it's a thought. I for one can never remember offhand what trade routes my cities have and with who, never mind my friends or enemies. An Overlay that kicks in at a certain height may be a good reminder for ease of play.
Enlarge the tech tree and re-look at Future techs from CiVIII spawned games, Alpha Centauri, Call to Power etc.
This forum is full of talented individuals and groups that have produced an inordinate amount of units, structures, and ideas that work which could make this game morph into any turn base game one would want it to.
What is missing is a simple to use ability to integrate all this mountain of material as each user would like in a simple for the user method. The hard calculating part is a matter for the machinery (computer) to handle and the work of programmers.
AND THAT IS WHERE THE BUSINESS OPPORTUNITY LIES FOR FIRAXIS.
Does anyone who ever clicks a mouse on a screen realize the amount of seamless computing that goes on behind the scenes? No, not even programmers are constantly aware of it!
IMO businesswise at this stage we are where Bill Gates was when he started trying to tinker with Windows and allow one platform for all the innumerable applications that did not speak to each other.
Allow the masses to do what only programmers were able to do with DOS. It's called a GUI. That's what I would like Sid Meyer to develop. Then I'd register and pay him a small annual or mothly fee just to have the right to use his GUI to integrade every aspect of the game by writing two or three lines of letters (code) and allow the application to generate the required code, correct subroutines, etc. that are required. The Editor of CiVIII is too constraining and, although the xml of CiV4 and now BtS is much, much more flexible, its just not enough yet.
Firaxis seems to be trying to get there. Let's really point the way for them to make money and give us what we ultimately want: a great gaming experience.
Thank you for making this thread so I could get on my soapbox and vent.
but that only gives me a lot more experience to have tried many games that came and went while CiV continues to re-invent itself.I must say that the work of numerous people in the modding sections is astounding. What is missing is an easy ability to interface them together and play a totally unique game as one may wish WITHOUT having to learn to code like a professional. xml should be just enough.
The xml base is by far superior to any of the game editors in any other games I have seen. The BtS upgrade allowing for much smaller sections of code to be integrated is a huge step in the right direction. IMO Almost half of the wish list above is already doable with xml and there are enough Custom Mods that could fulfil about 20% more. For example:
# 56 for the Megalopolis/Metropolitan wish would fit nicely with an existing mod that expands a city's "cross" out to 3 tiles per side. but for the city itself to take up more tiles you're right it needs hardcore changes.
# 79 Resources -Bountiful etc
This can easily be set by changing the Random generator within the game. It's already here.
#69 Attack and defence is already possible with xml. the problem is that all units are pre-set to an inoquous 4 for attack (which increases their XP points thus their attack statistics) or 2 for defence which when tweaked increases their defence %(3=25% higher defence etc.). Ever see a scout beat off a 3 stack of Barbarians by himself? It works. I tested it.
You want your helicopter to fly over water? it can. To increase it's range? it can. Increase it's firepower? it can. To transport units? it can. Totally ignore all first strikes by SAM's? It can. All within the xml one line structure. Just think that the xml is a one Label column and one Value column spreadsheet that passes this information to a macro that re-calculates it.
This is not what is missing from CiV. What is missing and thus confined to people without hardcore programming experience is the inability to allow some sort of "call-back" routine that when we, the major proportion of CiV fanatics who cannot code, want to tweak the game by introducing things that were left out, we should be able to (by introducing a line) in the xml section which would then allow the application to re-write itself to include it.( By re-generating the Schema perhaps?)
Maybe I'm asking for the improbable. But I've lived long enough to have seen the world change to an unbelievable degree, so it's not impossible.
A recuring annoyance that requires Hardcore programing? Isn' it ludicrous that we are asked to believe that semi-naked Egyptians, Mayans, Indians and others are trying to work Tundra tiles instead of the fur clad Germans and Brittons because the AI unthinkingly dropped them there? While the game in the Global xml collects the information of a civs ArtStyle it does nothing with it to ameliorate it's placing.
It could easily do this by defining a range of Latitudes that this ArtStyle is available for. This can't be done by xml alone as far as I know as it requires a new line in the Schema which needs hard-core coding to introduce those lines. Far beyond my meagre capabilities, but yet only a matter of a simple additional subroutine.
Another? Increase the number of routes recognisable in the RoutesInfo section to 5 or 6. Allow for pathways, roads, rail, highways, maglevs etc. even if Firaxis does not supply those, Modders will. If it's easy and the base is there, then everyone can include the mods without crashing. What about train stations in towns? Maybe giving extra Commerce? Taverns and Breweries for happy faces? the mods are there how do we the masses include them?
Separate and make very distinct the difference between Gold and Commerce.
Ships actually traveling the trade routes. Maybe only one as a token to conserve computing power, but which can be sunk by a privateer blockading and then regenarated when the blockade is lifted or broken? Don't forget while for the AI the route/s are real, humans tend to play with what they see on the screen and we tend to forget certain things that aren't there but calculated in the background and seen only when we bring up a secondary info screen.
Maybe this could be done as an overlay with different coloured (Player colors) dash lines showing the trade routes from all cities to others. I don't know but it's a thought. I for one can never remember offhand what trade routes my cities have and with who, never mind my friends or enemies. An Overlay that kicks in at a certain height may be a good reminder for ease of play.
Enlarge the tech tree and re-look at Future techs from CiVIII spawned games, Alpha Centauri, Call to Power etc.
This forum is full of talented individuals and groups that have produced an inordinate amount of units, structures, and ideas that work which could make this game morph into any turn base game one would want it to.
What is missing is a simple to use ability to integrate all this mountain of material as each user would like in a simple for the user method. The hard calculating part is a matter for the machinery (computer) to handle and the work of programmers.
AND THAT IS WHERE THE BUSINESS OPPORTUNITY LIES FOR FIRAXIS.
Does anyone who ever clicks a mouse on a screen realize the amount of seamless computing that goes on behind the scenes? No, not even programmers are constantly aware of it!
IMO businesswise at this stage we are where Bill Gates was when he started trying to tinker with Windows and allow one platform for all the innumerable applications that did not speak to each other.
Allow the masses to do what only programmers were able to do with DOS. It's called a GUI. That's what I would like Sid Meyer to develop. Then I'd register and pay him a small annual or mothly fee just to have the right to use his GUI to integrade every aspect of the game by writing two or three lines of letters (code) and allow the application to generate the required code, correct subroutines, etc. that are required. The Editor of CiVIII is too constraining and, although the xml of CiV4 and now BtS is much, much more flexible, its just not enough yet.
Firaxis seems to be trying to get there. Let's really point the way for them to make money and give us what we ultimately want: a great gaming experience.
Thank you for making this thread so I could get on my soapbox and vent.
. One of the great things about civ are the vast number of options available to you. I'm sure this is one option civ designers think about to accomodate as many playing styles as possible. I there are some options that bring you closer to this ideal, like accelerated start.
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