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Civ V modding. Worth starting?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Creation & Customization' started by Keroro, Aug 9, 2012.

  1. DonQuiche

    DonQuiche Emperor

    Joined:
    May 23, 2011
    Messages:
    1,122
    @Keroro
    Do not take into account future expansions that would suddenly make miracles. Either you find the game is interesting enough to mod right now, even without G&K, either you do not. G&K did not change a lot of things anyway and, for 99% of mods, including some big ones, updating for G&K was pretty simple and fast (but the other 1%, including some very interesting mods, are now totally broken, which is a shame).

    Regarding the current state of civ5 modding.
    * We do not have access to the dll source code. This is bad because you need to guess a lot of things. This is bad also because you cannot create your own dll for your total conversion mod (but that would make it incompatible with many other mods). However there are plenty of things you can do with LUA alone, including some gameplay changes.
    * Lua and the UI is not that bad. It's lacking for sure, the API and UI have not been designed with modding in mind but, well, most of the time you miraculously manage to make your way out. Regarding LUA, well, if you like weakly typed dynamic languages, it's a pretty good one aside of its rotten "noobs-friendly" syntax ("if then"? Seriously?), its average and small API and its annoying error handling mechanics.
    * Art seems like the main problem: changing improvements seems painful or not totally possible, new leaders 3D art is not possible, units creation seems more complex, etc. This is true for all recent games actually: modern animation, models and texturing systems are more sophisticated, they are often created through proprietary third-party and expensive tools, etc. Better graphics are bad for modding and the same thing happened when games moved from 2D to 3D, we will see whether things again return to a more manageable state for modders.
    * Expect many crashes and such. Civ was already easily crashing for apparently no reason (failed assertions nowhere reported I guess), G&K made it worse with new bugs and crashes that will annoy you and your users.


    @binthuy71
    And I agree with PawelS: some of us perfectly know how to handle C++ once the DLL source code is released. ;)
     
  2. Lord Lord

    Lord Lord Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2008
    Messages:
    26
    Slightly sidetracking ... I am surprised that not more members of the community lament the lack of multi-player support for mods. Am I among a tiny minority that play more multi player than single player? I have been enquiring about MP support in the future at the response has been underwhelming.
     
  3. binhthuy71

    binhthuy71 Emperor

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2003
    Messages:
    1,887
    Location:
    Southern California foothills
    Nice, comprehensive post! I'm glad to hear that some modders are comfortable with C++ and I'm confident that those of you who can write code will help out those who can't.
     
  4. Keroro

    Keroro Dororo: Ninja Frog

    Joined:
    May 19, 2006
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    1,789
    Location:
    The Hinata Residence
    @ DonQuiche - thanks for your thoughts on this. Art does seem to be a major problem, which means a lot of balance mods have been made but not many total conversions (AFAIK there's nothing like Fall From Heaven for Civ 5). The comparative difficulty of working with 3D rather than 2D art is what kept me working with Civ 3 when Civ 4 had come out - and I guess things are only going to get more complex as games try to get prettier or more complex.

    As far as DLL support goes - I personally wouldn't have a clue what to do with it, I'll leave that to you that know what you're doing. :) I hope we see it soon though as I'm certain a lot of mod components would benefit from it.

    @ Lord Lord - Though I'm not keen on it personally I am surprised too. It may be that the civ multiplayers have stayed with Civ 4 on the whole (though maybe I should say gone back to Civ 4?), though proper support could change that should Firaxis want to.
     
  5. PawelS

    PawelS Ancient Druid

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2003
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    2,803
    Location:
    Poland
    There is a way to play mods in hotseat...
     
  6. Lord Lord

    Lord Lord Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2008
    Messages:
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    I am in Norway and I got gaming partners in Denmark and Sweden as well as on the other side of town. Hotseat isn't an alternative :)
     
  7. The_J

    The_J Say No 2 Net Validations Retired Moderator Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2008
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    DE/NL/FR
    Play with the Giant Multiplayer Robot ;).
    It basically abuses the hot seat mode and turns it into a PBEM, and it recently also got the option to play scenarios with it :).
     
  8. primordial stew

    primordial stew Emperor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    1,219
    Location:
    a puddle
    I was porting my mod from vanilla civ4 to Warlords. Warlords added vassals, and vassals use specific texts. Not having those texts, the game would CTD each time such a screen was attempted. Months of frustration ensued! And then finally I slogged through understanding how to build the debug dll and viola, the problem of the missing text (and some others) was found and quickly fixed ;)

    The base game (vanilla or G+K) is rock stable (for me at least) these days, however modding can easily introduce CTDs. Hopefully someday we will get the debug dll, and that makes finding the source of CTDs much, much easier to do.
     

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