Civ VI - Beta Gauntlet VI
- Thread starter Ozbenno
- Start date
WillowBrook
Lurker
Well played, Kruncha! So i will actually have to give this one more try
Sadly you seem to be using two mods which prevent me from opening your file.
Sorry about that. It's CQUI (UI mod) and historicity++ (text-only changes), both off of Steam.
WillowBrook
Lurker
Here's the same start I used with no mods, if anyone wants to try it.
whacker
Warlord
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2016
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T154 SV.
Really nice map for conquering, although the start once again had a lot to be desired. London didn`t grow past 2pop until ~t50 Good city states, i had to liberate some. I stopped conquering sooner this time and i was a bit more careful with spending gold. (i had a 50k bank after Big Ben and still could not afford the last GS. Luckily it was neither Sagan nor Kwolek )
I even saved t1
Really nice map for conquering, although the start once again had a lot to be desired. London didn`t grow past 2pop until ~t50 Good city states, i had to liberate some. I stopped conquering sooner this time and i was a bit more careful with spending gold. (i had a 50k bank after Big Ben and still could not afford the last GS. Luckily it was neither Sagan nor Kwolek )
I even saved t1
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Sumorex
Warlord
Wowzers.
I feel like I'm playing a different game. After this gauntlet is over would you mind posting some intermediate saves since I can't easily take a finish save and set benchmarks off a log like you could in Civ IV.
I feel like I'm playing a different game. After this gauntlet is over would you mind posting some intermediate saves since I can't easily take a finish save and set benchmarks off a log like you could in Civ IV.
whacker
Warlord
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2016
- Messages
- 182
Of course, though i can not guarantee a lot of different saves, usually i tend to only play a few long sessions to keep concentration high.
Sumorex
Warlord
Turn 191
Zero commercial city states on this one but I played it out just to get a better feeling for playing space.
Zero commercial city states on this one but I played it out just to get a better feeling for playing space.
Sumorex
Warlord
Turn 189
About a week left before this ends.
Sumorex
Warlord
Gave this one more try and wasn't gonna finish in time so I just sloppily finished it at 199.
I did however notice some things I didn't know about though.... maybe this is common knowledge and I just never noticed because I don't play Space Races. Hypatia, Newton and Einstein only apply their bonus to cities that you own at the time or that you founded later. If you conquer cities after activating any of them you do not get the bonus. The library and university don't have to be built in conquered cities when you activate them.... you just have to have control of the city when you activate them. Any city you found afterwards still gets the bonus though.
Rationalism might behave the same way, but I'm not certain. This last game I kept conquering all the way to the end of the game and cities I conquered after I got Englightenment seemed to not get the bonus. They were stuck at +2 and +4 ... no GS boosts or Rationalism boosts. Surely this is bug or there is an explanation I haven't heard.
I've enjoyed this Gauntlet and it's piqued my interest in space races. I've just got a lot of timing, tech / civic path, policy choices, wonder/project/greatperson timing and worker/settler/chop management to figure out still. Being 20%+ slower than the best games is a motivation to keep trying because it isn't just a simple 3 turn mistake.
Can't wait to see whats next Ozbenno.
I did however notice some things I didn't know about though.... maybe this is common knowledge and I just never noticed because I don't play Space Races. Hypatia, Newton and Einstein only apply their bonus to cities that you own at the time or that you founded later. If you conquer cities after activating any of them you do not get the bonus. The library and university don't have to be built in conquered cities when you activate them.... you just have to have control of the city when you activate them. Any city you found afterwards still gets the bonus though.
Rationalism might behave the same way, but I'm not certain. This last game I kept conquering all the way to the end of the game and cities I conquered after I got Englightenment seemed to not get the bonus. They were stuck at +2 and +4 ... no GS boosts or Rationalism boosts. Surely this is bug or there is an explanation I haven't heard.
I've enjoyed this Gauntlet and it's piqued my interest in space races. I've just got a lot of timing, tech / civic path, policy choices, wonder/project/greatperson timing and worker/settler/chop management to figure out still. Being 20%+ slower than the best games is a motivation to keep trying because it isn't just a simple 3 turn mistake.
Can't wait to see whats next Ozbenno.
Sumorex
Warlord
Guess I should ask a few questions of whacker and Kruncha.
Do you just restart if you don't see Hypatia and Isidore as the first great persons?
Do you have a benchmark for Political Philosophy that you don't play past? I quit a game if I don't have PP by turn 55.
Do you beeline Feudalism after Political Philosophy?
Do you finish building many workers before Feudalism?
Do you prioritize Banking before Industrialism? I've been going for the mine bonus first and that seems to lead to a very late Great Zimbabwe.
Do you just restart if you don't see Hypatia and Isidore as the first great persons?
Do you have a benchmark for Political Philosophy that you don't play past? I quit a game if I don't have PP by turn 55.
Do you beeline Feudalism after Political Philosophy?
Do you finish building many workers before Feudalism?
Do you prioritize Banking before Industrialism? I've been going for the mine bonus first and that seems to lead to a very late Great Zimbabwe.
whacker
Warlord
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2016
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- 182
Actually i never reload for GS, although it certainly would help it feels like cheating to me. I also never quit games after around t20-30, in most cases you can estimate wether the game is about to be a good or bad one by knowing your neigbours, map layout etc.. Obviously there are some aspects that will only unfold many turns later, but that is what makes civ6 great in my opinion.
I do beeline feudalism, but may delay it by several turns to get most of the ilkum policy. I rarely finishmore than 1-3 worker before feudalism, but this also depends on if i get to buiuld the Pyramids or capture a lot of workers.
Banking is timed with guilds to get the Heureka and i try to get it asap when i know a fitting place for Zimbabwe. My Benchmark for Zimbabwe in a fast game is t115-125, but i will delay it some turns for perfect spots where the city needs some more development, never after t130 though.
In an ideal scenario your Zimbabwe city is an early conquered city state or one of your very early cities/capital, so you can pump all your traderoutes into it from the beginning. I would recommend planning for it from t1.
I do beeline feudalism, but may delay it by several turns to get most of the ilkum policy. I rarely finishmore than 1-3 worker before feudalism, but this also depends on if i get to buiuld the Pyramids or capture a lot of workers.
Banking is timed with guilds to get the Heureka and i try to get it asap when i know a fitting place for Zimbabwe. My Benchmark for Zimbabwe in a fast game is t115-125, but i will delay it some turns for perfect spots where the city needs some more development, never after t130 though.
In an ideal scenario your Zimbabwe city is an early conquered city state or one of your very early cities/capital, so you can pump all your traderoutes into it from the beginning. I would recommend planning for it from t1.
Last edited:
Sumorex
Warlord
Thanks whacker.
The Zimbabwe target dates are one spot I'm failing and I'm thinking it's because of my research and civics paths. I've been finishing Zimbabwe in the 140's usually.
The Zimbabwe target dates are one spot I'm failing and I'm thinking it's because of my research and civics paths. I've been finishing Zimbabwe in the 140's usually.
My benchmark for whether to continue a game is usually T20. I rarely restart on the first turn for any reason because some of the best indicators of a good start, as whacker mentioned, are neighbors and map layout (for England in particular, those nearby fault lines are really helpful).
On that note, I would say the number one thing holding players back from getting faster victories is conquering. Early conquering/expanding really sets the stage for the rest of your success. I think a lot of players know this but haven't really internalized it. You can wait a surprisingly long time to build districts/buildings in many of your cities; acquiring Rationalism and key gold-boosting policy cards, recruiting Newton, finishing Great Zimbabwe, and larger numbers of envoys all happen around the same time toward the end of the mid-game (around T100 to T125), and the amount of science/gold from infrastructure prior to these game-changers is negligible compared to what you get afterward. Because of this, your early game (pretty much all the way up to T70-T80 or so) should be super-focused on hitting military techs and getting as many cities as you possibly can so that you can aim to complete your infrastructure (with the help of some chopping) in most of your cities right around the critical point at T100ish.
I don't have all your DLC, Sumorex, so I don't actually know how you're doing on number of cities. But your questions, although they are good questions and I agree with whacker's answers, are all about benchmarks for development, which suggests that your priorities may need rebalancing toward more expansion. In particular, Hypatia and Isidore are nice to get, but might not be worth rushing buildings in the early game if it comes at the expense of your army, especially given what you discovered about Hypatia's effect not working for cities conquered after activation (can't believe I never noticed that!).
On that note, I would say the number one thing holding players back from getting faster victories is conquering. Early conquering/expanding really sets the stage for the rest of your success. I think a lot of players know this but haven't really internalized it. You can wait a surprisingly long time to build districts/buildings in many of your cities; acquiring Rationalism and key gold-boosting policy cards, recruiting Newton, finishing Great Zimbabwe, and larger numbers of envoys all happen around the same time toward the end of the mid-game (around T100 to T125), and the amount of science/gold from infrastructure prior to these game-changers is negligible compared to what you get afterward. Because of this, your early game (pretty much all the way up to T70-T80 or so) should be super-focused on hitting military techs and getting as many cities as you possibly can so that you can aim to complete your infrastructure (with the help of some chopping) in most of your cities right around the critical point at T100ish.
I don't have all your DLC, Sumorex, so I don't actually know how you're doing on number of cities. But your questions, although they are good questions and I agree with whacker's answers, are all about benchmarks for development, which suggests that your priorities may need rebalancing toward more expansion. In particular, Hypatia and Isidore are nice to get, but might not be worth rushing buildings in the early game if it comes at the expense of your army, especially given what you discovered about Hypatia's effect not working for cities conquered after activation (can't believe I never noticed that!).
Oh yeah, I tried your start, WillowBrook, and it seemed like a cool map. I like starts where you can see natural wonder yields on turn 0 and will usually sacrifice a turn or two to put my capital there if it's a good wonder. Unfortunately I won't have time to finish any more files though, so I'm ready for the next Gauntlet!
Sumorex
Warlord
Thanks Kruncha. I agree with everything you wrote, but I can't imagine being done with infrastructure at T100ish (even with some chopping). I'm typically looking at Monument, Campus (Library and University), Commercial (eureka markets, rarely banks) or Harbor (no buildings).
I usually start my game with the first two builds being Slinger / Scout ... the territory around me dictates which comes first (coastal I go Scout, inland I go slinger).
Then I crank out 5 more slingers timing Archery to upgrade them all and then I start conquering.
At turn 100 in my last 5 games I've been at:
12 cities - poor choice in initial conquering direction
18 cities
19 cities - best time victory at 189
13 cities - game I continued because I had great city states but distant neighbors which came in 10 turns slower
21 cities - game is in progress
I don't reliably build any military after the initial Scout + 6 slingers. I'll build a military unit for an envoy if I feel it doesn't slow that city down. Some games 2 galleys using the 100% naval policy happens (using overflow from a chop to go into a district).
I agree turn 20 is usually a good point to know whether to abandon a game or not. Political Philosophy by turn 55 is a minimum. I don't abandon many games after that... but is Merchant Republic by turn 105 typical?
I'm ready for the next gauntlet too. If the pattern holds, it's religion which I've done once.
I usually start my game with the first two builds being Slinger / Scout ... the territory around me dictates which comes first (coastal I go Scout, inland I go slinger).
Then I crank out 5 more slingers timing Archery to upgrade them all and then I start conquering.
At turn 100 in my last 5 games I've been at:
12 cities - poor choice in initial conquering direction
18 cities
19 cities - best time victory at 189
13 cities - game I continued because I had great city states but distant neighbors which came in 10 turns slower
21 cities - game is in progress
I don't reliably build any military after the initial Scout + 6 slingers. I'll build a military unit for an envoy if I feel it doesn't slow that city down. Some games 2 galleys using the 100% naval policy happens (using overflow from a chop to go into a district).
I agree turn 20 is usually a good point to know whether to abandon a game or not. Political Philosophy by turn 55 is a minimum. I don't abandon many games after that... but is Merchant Republic by turn 105 typical?
I'm ready for the next gauntlet too. If the pattern holds, it's religion which I've done once.
Yeah, sorry, I should have said T100 to T125 depending on when those bonuses come in. I think Rationalism is usually toward the end of that range which means that libraries and universities can be delayed a bit more, especially since science tends not to be the bottleneck in most of my games. The districts themselves should usually be done earlier in that range to take advantage of envoys and great person boosts from Divine Spark and/or Stockholm, and also to have time to finish a lot of traders in high-production cities in time for Great Zimbabwe and Triangular Trade. I do not build monuments in less developed cities if I think it will prevent me from timing districts, libraries, and universities appropriately (unless it's just repairing).
20 cities by T100 seems fine, but could be better. Perhaps whacker could chime in on what a good benchmark is there. I'll look at some of my save files when I get home to get a better idea, but I would say that if you can get those 20 cities by T90 and keep conquering a bit more (whacker has 28 cities at the T154 save), you'll be much better positioned. Are you able to take advantage of England's UA? If you can get some iron and get some free swordsmen in your conquered cities, it can help speed things up. Crossbows are great, but I find that archers alone tend to drop off a bit before I reach crossbows and the upgrade card, so swordsmen with oligarchy can help fill in the gap, especially if you can build/buy a battering ram.
20 cities by T100 seems fine, but could be better. Perhaps whacker could chime in on what a good benchmark is there. I'll look at some of my save files when I get home to get a better idea, but I would say that if you can get those 20 cities by T90 and keep conquering a bit more (whacker has 28 cities at the T154 save), you'll be much better positioned. Are you able to take advantage of England's UA? If you can get some iron and get some free swordsmen in your conquered cities, it can help speed things up. Crossbows are great, but I find that archers alone tend to drop off a bit before I reach crossbows and the upgrade card, so swordsmen with oligarchy can help fill in the gap, especially if you can build/buy a battering ram.
Sumorex
Warlord
Oh yeah a battering ram! I almost always build one. My current game I built a Siege Tower because of this thread but it just got to the front:
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/catapults.618003/page-2#post-14792276
It's worth noting this may or may not be a bug... the dev's definitions of unit types and damage types leaves a lot of ambiguity.
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/catapults.618003/page-2#post-14792276
It's worth noting this may or may not be a bug... the dev's definitions of unit types and damage types leaves a lot of ambiguity.
- Joined
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In the other thread in general discussions I did a test and it seems rams do not help ranged but towers do.
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