Civ VI Religion.

[TheMarshmallowBear]

What do great prophets do? I still haven't watched the beginning of the livestream yet. I heard the first one lets you found a religion, but that seems weird because Great People all have unique abilities, and those sound contradictory.

Great Prophet's ability is to Found a religion and that's it (i.e , rather underwhelming) I do not know if you can get a second Great Prophet.

 

[Big J Money]

Ah, I am watching the Livestream now and see that.

Well I wonder what happens if you get one when you already have a religion. I guess I should assume this is similar to Civ V.

 

[Ivan Hunger]

Keep in mind that we still don't know what happens after every religion possible for the map size has been founded. It's still possible that the purpose of Great Prophets changes in some way after that.

 

[VCrakeV]

Am I the only one who is disappointed? It seems to me that religion is too big now. It should be a side thing. I understand how powerful it was during the dawn of civilization, but I have heard nothing of it obsoleting after a certain tech or era. It shouldn't make a difference (or it should at most make a small difference) later in the game.



And leading to a victory? Just seems silly, especially late game.

 

[Big J Money]

Other people dislike it as well. I think it's quite interesting as a "what if" scenario.

 

[Zaarin]

Am I the only one who is disappointed? It seems to me that religion is too big now. It should be a side thing. I understand how powerful it was during the dawn of civilization, but I have heard nothing of it obsoleting after a certain tech or era. It shouldn't make a difference (or it should at most make a small difference) later in the game.



And leading to a victory? Just seems silly, especially late game.

If you think religion is "obsolete" in the modern world, maybe you should read less sci-fi and try watching the news.

 

[Mort_Q]

If you think religion is "obsolete" in the modern world, maybe you should read less sci-fi and try watching the news.

"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful."

~ Lucius Annaeus Seneca

Useful, not obsolete.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

Am I the only one who is disappointed? It seems to me that religion is too big now. It should be a side thing. I understand how powerful it was during the dawn of civilization, but I have heard nothing of it obsoleting after a certain tech or era. It shouldn't make a difference (or it should at most make a small difference) later in the game.



And leading to a victory? Just seems silly, especially late game.

Obselete? Religion is far from obselete even today.

 

[Ivan Hunger]

Assuming Religious Victory requires wiping out all other religions and converting every city in the world to your own, it does make sense to me.

You're basically creating world peace by ushering in a globally accepted set of morals and values. That actually seems much more like a victory than building a rocket ship and ditching everyone else.

 

[Brutus2]

Are you guys just assuming there will be a religious victory or did you see it somewhere? One of the videos showed all the victory conditions and I don't remember seeing anything about religion.

 

[VCrakeV]

If you think religion is "obsolete" in the modern world, maybe you should read less sci-fi and try watching the news.

I watch the news. Indoctrination has it's uses (ie, ISIS), but it's not so applicable to the "modern world" (western society, Britain, etc.). We live in an age of information where indoctrination requires people to be at a very young age (think Hitler Youth, which even then wasn't so successful).



Also, in modern cities like Toronto, having a state religion would be a nightmare... Just think about it. Maybe in Civ VI, religion could spread more often passively, especially with airports and the such. Just add some notable penalties for multiple religions in a city with a state religion, and voila... Not so bad.



Sure, it's good for mind control, but in that case, it's only good for a select few (those in power making the decisions; indoctrinated folk aren't autonomous and typically do bad things). It's not good for the civilization.

 

[VCrakeV]

Assuming Religious Victory requires wiping out all other religions and converting every city in the world to your own, it does make sense to me.

You're basically creating world peace by ushering in a globally accepted set of morals and values. That actually seems much more like a victory than building a rocket ship and ditching everyone else.

Well, you're indoctrinating people into your religion. Assuming victory is associated with the benefit of everyone (which it should be!), draining people of their autonomy is not how to go about it...



As for the spaceship victory, "ditching" everyone else (who could be warring and polluting for all we know) for the betterment of humanity seems noble to me.

 

[JimmyBanks]

In BAStartGaming's 8th video you can see that Laventa captured 1 of Japan's Apostles. (Start of the gameplay top left corner)

 

[Ivan Hunger]

Well, you're indoctrinating people into your religion. Assuming victory is associated with the benefit of everyone (which it should be!), draining people of their autonomy is not how to go about it...



As for the spaceship victory, "ditching" everyone else (who could be warring and polluting for all we know) for the betterment of humanity seems noble to me.

All the victory types can have a pretty dark edge if you look at them that way.

Spaceship victory can be seen as leaving the vast majority of humanity to wallow in squalor on a ruined Earth.

Tourism victory can be seen as homogenizing human culture to the point where conformity is absolute.

Diplomatic victory can be seen as bribing city states with fat stacks of cash to impose your "leadership" onto an otherwise unwilling global population.

Domination victory is literally using violence to crush all dissent against your rule.

You could make a pretty compelling argument that late game Civ has always fundamentally been about roleplaying a supervillain bent on world conquest.

 

[MaximusPlatypus]

I noticed this screen in Marbozir's LP. It says that a martyred apostle created a Great Work. So it would appear that you get Great Works when your Apostle unit gets killed.

Spoiler :

EDIT: looks like I was wrong. The great work is discovered by accident, not spawned from a lost apostle unit.

I thought he said he got it from a regular old goodie hut... but he was uncertain if it was a bug.

 

[AlexByrde]

Are you guys just assuming there will be a religious victory or did you see it somewhere? One of the videos showed all the victory conditions and I don't remember seeing anything about religion.

Religion victory has been confirmed as of yesterday's info dump, but I don't think the details are known yet.

 

[Grumpbeard]

All the victory types can have a pretty dark edge if you look at them that way...

You could make a pretty compelling argument that late game Civ has always fundamentally been about roleplaying a supervillain bent on world conquest.

He's figured us out! Have him recruited or eliminated immediately. (tents fingers, laughs maniacally)

 

[Zaarin]

I watch the news. Indoctrination has it's uses (ie, ISIS), but it's not so applicable to the "modern world" (western society, Britain, etc.). We live in an age of information where indoctrination requires people to be at a very young age (think Hitler Youth, which even then wasn't so successful).



Also, in modern cities like Toronto, having a state religion would be a nightmare... Just think about it. Maybe in Civ VI, religion could spread more often passively, especially with airports and the such. Just add some notable penalties for multiple religions in a city with a state religion, and voila... Not so bad.



Sure, it's good for mind control, but in that case, it's only good for a select few (those in power making the decisions; indoctrinated folk aren't autonomous and typically do bad things). It's not good for the civilization.

Want to be a little more clear with your anti-religion rant? I don't think it's quite obvious you dislike religion yet. Atheism/agnosticism/secular humanism is still a belief system, and it doesn't look like human nature is "evolving beyond" belief systems any time soon. "Religion is obsolete" is just a trope of naive postmodernist sci-fi--and a trope even sci-fi has been moving away from since the 90s. Like it or not, religion will always be with us.

 

[VCrakeV]

Want to be a little more clear with your anti-religion rant? I don't think it's quite obvious you dislike religion yet. Atheism/agnosticism/secular humanism is still a belief system, and it doesn't look like human nature is "evolving beyond" belief systems any time soon. "Religion is obsolete" is just a trope of naive postmodernist sci-fi--and a trope even sci-fi has been moving away from since the 90s. Like it or not, religion will always be with us.

Well, there's at least one thing I can agree with: Religion will always be with us. No matter how big or small it is, it's hard to eliminate... I know that on a personal level. Other than that, let's just "agree to disagree" on how important/useful religion is.



As for the game itself... Hopefully it's mod-able. Maybe I could put in a civic with a huge faith penalty (bringing it to zero, or at least close to it) while putting in some benefits. Although dealing with the pantheons/beliefs seems more difficult...

 

[Ivan Hunger]

The ironic thing is, thanks to new beliefs like the Wat building and Stewardship, you can actually create a "religion" that "worships" science, just like the talking otters from that one South Park episode.