CIV VII: 1UPT, Stack of Doom or Carpet of Doom. What's your prefs?

[Krajzen]

Honest question. Why do we even discuss this topic, as the dev decision in this regard was surely set in stone yesrs ago, and it's not something which can change during developent, barring some technical balance details? Almost all other stuff we discuss is something that can still change for release date or expansions, but not the most fundamental unit mechanics.

If devs were to be inspired by our discussions, that happened in like 2020 - 2022 period I think (unit system must be dealt with at the stage of basic map interactions)

 

[Nikolai II]

Honest question. Why do we even discuss this topic, as the dev decision in this regard was surely set in stone yesrs ago, and it's not something which can change during developent, barring some technical balance details? Almost all other stuff we discuss is something that can still change for release date or expansions, but not the most fundamental unit mechanics.

If devs were to be inspired by our discussions, that happened in like 2020 - 2022 period I think (unit system must be dealt with at the stage of basic map interactions)

This is an excellent point. Games these days take 6-8 years to develop, so this was long since decided.

 

[Roland Johansen]

You are wondering why people on the internet discuss useless stuff?

 

[aieeegrunt]

It may work, but that doesn't mean the envelope can't be pushed even further to create a comprehensive and innvative true compromise between the two extremes. Why settle for just, "it works?"

What kind of system are you thinking about?

 

[Patine]

You know, it's a game, and the realism is not all that matters. If it came to pointing out every unrealistic thing, there would be no game left...

However, on the other hand, in a game like Civ, there also has to be enough nods to realism to justify the historical trappings.

 

[UWHabs]

Honest question. Why do we even discuss this topic, as the dev decision in this regard was surely set in stone yesrs ago, and it's not something which can change during developent, barring some technical balance details? Almost all other stuff we discuss is something that can still change for release date or expansions, but not the most fundamental unit mechanics.

If devs were to be inspired by our discussions, that happened in like 2020 - 2022 period I think (unit system must be dealt with at the stage of basic map interactions)

We don't have anything else to go off of, so yeah, people like to argue. Especially for something as fundamental as movement and combat, there's not much they can really change. Although some healthy debate is really all we have now, and you never know which directly they're leading, if some argument in this long discussion will spark an idea in the devs that might make it in at some point.

 

[civac]

This discussion is useful for the future development of the community mod to make Civ7 playable.

Kidding. Or am I?

 

[uppi]

All the interesting aspects of combined arms combat only emerge when you combine multiple units of different types. You can have a situation of 5 groups of medieval swordsmen charging the enemy front line of 2 pikemen supported by the gunfire of one arquebussier, while those 2 pikemen are getting shot at from range by an early cannon disrupting their ranks. Meanwhile the small front line of 2 pikemen see 2 groups of knights emerging from their flanks charging the enemy medieval swordsmen flanks.

Who will win, 5 medieval swordsmen plus a cannon versus 2 pikemen, one arquebussier and 2 knights? It's 6 against 5, but the effect of combined arms on both sides and the technological differences may be decisive. And of course the luck of the dice and the terrain. There will likely be losses on both sides.

It may be a fight of 6 against 5 because of one side having a technological advantage in stacking or a leader combat trait or a general attached to the army.

If I had a penny for each time CTP/Millenia-style combat has been re-invented on these forums...

 

[Roland Johansen]

If I had a penny for each time CTP/Millenia-style combat has been re-invented on these forums...

It indeed seems that a bunch are unaware of the nice and elegant combat systems that have been developed over the decades, so then one needs to describe it in a few words.

 

[aieeegrunt]

If I had a penny for each time CTP/Millenia-style combat has been re-invented on these forums...

Millenia’s hilarious stop motion animated combat was a new tweest however.

 

[_hero_]

Honest question. Why do we even discuss this topic, as the dev decision in this regard was surely set in stone yesrs ago, and it's not something which can change during developent, barring some technical balance details? Almost all other stuff we discuss is something that can still change for release date or expansions, but not the most fundamental unit mechanics.

If devs were to be inspired by our discussions, that happened in like 2020 - 2022 period I think (unit system must be dealt with at the stage of basic map interactions)

Maybe an idea here will make it into Civ 8.

 

[Frederiksberg]

I voted for "stack of doom" even though it's sort of myth. Using a stack of doom is a poor strategy because you don't want to put any more resources into military units than needed (opportunity cost!). Even in a conquest game, you don't want to build a stack of doom, but build multiple mid-sized stacks for faster conquest. Applying your forces to the battlefield ASAP is of course of highest priority, why would you wait until you have some crazy oversized stack of doom?

 

[pokiehl]

I don’t really think “influence the devs” is a particularly noble goal. It's nearly impossible to find actual consensus on most ideas here, and as most of us are not game designers, most of our ideas probably aren't actually good.

I hope for the most part they take everything they read on social media with a giant grain of salt.

 

[Voidwalkin]

I'm surprised by the results. I've never actually seen the AI build a carpet of doom, I guess. It went from doomstack to carpet but never to carpet of doom.

It was an entirely different feeling on civ 4 deity. You did feel doomed. You'll probably roll up the carpet without difficulty.

To some extent it's always felt like your war builds your economy more than your economy builds your war in civ but that's never been more true than civ6. You can produce such massive snowball with such minimal investment regardless of whether or not there's a carpet of any size. Combat ai is just that woeful.