Civ3: (In)Complete
- Thread starter Longasc
- Start date
I understand all arguments brought forward why Civ3 is not fixed completely.
How often have I said this already?
But this is a TERRIBLE trend, a developement that causes games to be as follows:
They will be released with quite a lot of bugs or - in the worst case - something one could call a late BETA phase.
Promised features and stuff will be delivered over years in Expansions that cost extra.
Because work started on the successor, and because some bugs are too difficult to fix, no further patches are developed.
The successor Civ 4 e.g. will of course suffer the same fate.
Conquests was quite some time in a status that was really sad, before 1.15b. I agree, gamebreaking bugs were fixed.
Still, the way how patch support is handled makes me sad. I will not support this anymore and preorder or buy immediately Civ4.
It is not only Firaxis, the makers of Rome: Total War have a quit sad patching habit for Medieval: Total War and its Expansion, too (introduced new features, new bugs, fixed half of them, left some really annoying ones -> now they are focusing on Rome).
I care a lot for Civ3, and I am sad that it is treated like any 08/15 shooter who is forgotten after half a year anyway. Civ3 is out now for years, and after years of patching, still not done.
:suicide:
How often have I said this already?
But this is a TERRIBLE trend, a developement that causes games to be as follows:
They will be released with quite a lot of bugs or - in the worst case - something one could call a late BETA phase.
Promised features and stuff will be delivered over years in Expansions that cost extra.
Because work started on the successor, and because some bugs are too difficult to fix, no further patches are developed.
The successor Civ 4 e.g. will of course suffer the same fate.
Conquests was quite some time in a status that was really sad, before 1.15b. I agree, gamebreaking bugs were fixed.
Still, the way how patch support is handled makes me sad. I will not support this anymore and preorder or buy immediately Civ4.
It is not only Firaxis, the makers of Rome: Total War have a quit sad patching habit for Medieval: Total War and its Expansion, too (introduced new features, new bugs, fixed half of them, left some really annoying ones -> now they are focusing on Rome).
I care a lot for Civ3, and I am sad that it is treated like any 08/15 shooter who is forgotten after half a year anyway. Civ3 is out now for years, and after years of patching, still not done.
:suicide:
Mr. Hyperbole
understated cynic
I have another question. Why wouldn't Firaxis release the code to the public if they will no longer use that game engine anyway? Or am I mistaken in that they will continue to use the same engine?
Well, considering whoever owns the rights to Civ I just sold copies not too long ago (ported for either a cell phone or a PDA, I don't remember exactly), there is still value in the code. There may also be some "trade secrets" of coding in there, as far as how they do certain things, that they don't want revealed. That is, they may use some similar tactics for Civ IV and they don't want the competition (whether that be the open-source community or another company or whatever) to learn from their code.
Add in the fact that there's nothing really for them to GAIN by releasing the code and it's not hard to see why game code is held secret effectively forever.
Arathorn
Add in the fact that there's nothing really for them to GAIN by releasing the code and it's not hard to see why game code is held secret effectively forever.
Arathorn
Because somebody will use it to make a better civ3 and thus make them look more incompetant.
Mr. Hyperbole
understated cynic
What I would like to see is Firaxis release the codes to a few chosen volunteers(who could sign confidentiality agreements)who would then fix the bugs & post the patches on the site.
Anyone see the harm in this? Not being in the comp industry I very well could be overlooking something obvious...
Anyone see the harm in this? Not being in the comp industry I very well could be overlooking something obvious...
warpstorm
Yumbo? Yumbo!
Like Arathorn has said, there is value in the code base still. They published 4 games and 4 expansions as Firaxis using this code base as well as selling it to Breakaway for their Waterloo series. In addition, they used this code before they split off from Microprose on quite a few games. This code base may be old and crufty but it is the basis for many a good game.
Why should they give it away for free when they can sell it?
Why should they give it away for free when they can sell it?
Also they are potentially creating competition for themselves. A fully fixed Civ3/Conquests might actually be preferable over Civ4 if it is released with a large number of bugs. Even if they cooperated they would be getting a lot less money for a fixed old game rather than the new one where they can charge a higher price.
Ramalhão
Warlord
People at Firaxis should think better:
- When will Civ4 be released? It's said 2006. So, why don't they spend one month (maybe two) to fix all known bugs in C3C?
- Who will buy a game if we all know that Firaxis never fix all bugs in its own games?
- We can make a campaign "I won't buy Civ4 if C3C remains unfixed". If we spread this campaign in CFC, maybe they think better and hear us (I hope).
- When will Civ4 be released? It's said 2006. So, why don't they spend one month (maybe two) to fix all known bugs in C3C?
- Who will buy a game if we all know that Firaxis never fix all bugs in its own games?
- We can make a campaign "I won't buy Civ4 if C3C remains unfixed". If we spread this campaign in CFC, maybe they think better and hear us (I hope).
there is thread so titled at Apolyton and it is thriving. 
genghis_khev
Surviving Monarch Level
Here's a question:
How many threads like this are there now on this site?
It wouldn't look good if a prospective purchaser of civ3 complete came here to see what the fans are saying!
Mental note to self: check fan (not official) web sites for games I want to buy in the future!
How many threads like this are there now on this site?
It wouldn't look good if a prospective purchaser of civ3 complete came here to see what the fans are saying!
Mental note to self: check fan (not official) web sites for games I want to buy in the future!
warpstorm
Yumbo? Yumbo!
Ramalhão said:
1 - probably late 2005 - because to make that date I assume that they will be cutting it close as it is - losing a lead programmer for a few months might jeopardize it totally. Firaxis doesn't have control of its schedules, Atari does. In addition, they've spent more than that already and couldn't solve the problems.
2 - the 1.5 million people who bought Civ3 and aren't the 50000 members of CFC (many of whom aren't active)
3 - let's see, 50000/1500000 is a drop in the bucket. To boot, many of the people who signed up for the campaign will be weak-willed and buy Civ4 when it comes out as well as the members who wouldn't sign up for the campaign in the first place (count me in that group) and the members who are inactive. Honestly, if it were my company, I wouldn't be scared.
warpstorm
Yumbo? Yumbo!
genghis_khev said:
This is a good idea. Be aware that complainers post much more often than those who enjoy the game.
warpstorm, one small consideration, we are advertisers not just a fan base, fanatic or otherwise. Buyers, reviewers and anyone else who can read, do a Google search or listen to rumors know what we are saying. And to let us stew, complain and outright ***** for what will be for some two years prior to a game release, well it will cut sales, how many? Who knows, however look how money is routinely dumped into advertising. I wonder how many companies sit around and initiate purposely a 'negative' ad campaign for up to two years running before they launch a product? Gosh Atari needs to give its marketing strategy a check up. 
genghis_khev
Surviving Monarch Level
May be they are just punishing us! If we didn't complain so much may be they would supply the patch!
Face, nose, this is Mr Knife!
Face, nose, this is Mr Knife!
Lack of imagination, inability to take new risks or think outside the box, stupidity and small minded corporate money thinking. However, the spirit prevails, and dead weight will eventually be swept away. I have overcome too many obstacles in life to accept this. I simply do not, magick happens... and I am a patient attentive complainer when required.
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