Ive owned both games for the PC. Civ2 is one of my all time favorite games. I picked up a copy of Civ3 when it first came out, but the bugs more or less ruined the experience for me (the fighter interception bug was a killer, and my laptop had no internet connection for me to download a patch). So what do people think, both of the games in general and specifically the Mac versions? I know opinions differ about whether or not Civ3 is a step forward or a step backward, with the corruption model and the AIs success with primitive units being particular sore spots. Im still tempted to go with Civ3, partly in the hope that Conquests will make an appearance on the Mac in the near future. Anyway, I would be interested in a dialogue about the strengths and weaknesses of the Mac versions of each game, and any recommendations would be helpful.
Civ3 or Civ2 Gold for Mac?
- Thread starter Seanmac
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frunobulax
High Sheriff of Catford
Interesting topic this, Civ 3 vs. Civ2 Gold. ..
I've been a Civ2 player since... well, too long (c.1999??)... and I finally made the move over to Civ3 about 18-20 months ago (when I got a faster machine that would run OSX. Now that I have an even faster Mac - eMac 1GHz Panther - the game plays far smoother than on my old G3 500MHz laptop - a dual-boot OS9/X Jag. thing).
I do love both games (almost) equally, and I've done a lot of modding with my version on Civ3 (one of these days I'll zipit and put it online), but somehow I've never had the thrill I first got when playing Civ2 for the first few weeks/months, when I play Civ3 these days. Perhaps this is just me getting older and less easily pleased, but there's still something magical about loading up a good Civ2 scenario and settling down for a spot of historical empire building, or tackling the D-Day landings...
The strengths of Civ3 for me (apart from the Mac Forum users on CivFanatics!!) are the expanded and revised trade/diplomacy options - better than in Civ2 but still not as good as other games I could mention - as well as the overall good looks of the game (animated units etc). However, given the choice, I'd rather have my events files back!
There are perhaps 3 major reasons why - ultimately - Civ2 is a better overall gaming experience for me...
1. Events Files! It is a real shame that events files play no part in Civ3 - this was a MAJOR plus to Civ2 when customising and playing user-created historical scenarios. I have 50+ scenarios for Civ2 that I still play - especially 'Second Front', 'Great Napoleonic Battles', 'ZWK', 'Cross and Crescent', and to name but a few... and also any scenario by by kobayashi
2. Mac support and (lack of) development! Dare I say it, but support for us marginalised Mac players has been - to put it politely - minimal. If it wasn't for Brad Oliver I'd have probably sold my copy of Civ3 and devoted even more time to Europa Universalis II (which is currently my favourite Mac game, ever).
3. Editability/Replayability. This links in to point 1 above, but despite all the heroic efforts of Brad Oliver, the Civ2 editor reigns supreme (despite colour pallettes being a tricky issue at times), within the whole package of Civ2 - being able to place units on new maps, add events etc. The endless replayability of Civ2 - given the massive number of high-quality user-created screnarios - far outstrips Civ3 (on a Mac). In the past 2 months I've played three whole Civ2 scenarios (ZWK, RON and GNB) and played '0' Civ3 games! This is from someone who spent several months modding Civ3 last summer... my interest in it has waned pretty considerably - I spend more time coming on here to see if there's any news of C3C!
Don't get me wrong, I still love Civ3 when I'm in the mood/modd, but long term Civ2 Gold wins for me - replayability, events and scenarios!
Hope this fuels some constructive discussions. I hope I am proved wrong, in that some version of PTW or Civ3Conquests magically appears, but until then I'm off to carry on with EU2.
Fruno
P.S. One reason why -for me - EU2 has the edge over Civ3 - is the incorporation of religion as an active aspect of the gameplay, something Civ3 really lacks.
I've been a Civ2 player since... well, too long (c.1999??)... and I finally made the move over to Civ3 about 18-20 months ago (when I got a faster machine that would run OSX. Now that I have an even faster Mac - eMac 1GHz Panther - the game plays far smoother than on my old G3 500MHz laptop - a dual-boot OS9/X Jag. thing).
I do love both games (almost) equally, and I've done a lot of modding with my version on Civ3 (one of these days I'll zipit and put it online), but somehow I've never had the thrill I first got when playing Civ2 for the first few weeks/months, when I play Civ3 these days. Perhaps this is just me getting older and less easily pleased, but there's still something magical about loading up a good Civ2 scenario and settling down for a spot of historical empire building, or tackling the D-Day landings...
The strengths of Civ3 for me (apart from the Mac Forum users on CivFanatics!!) are the expanded and revised trade/diplomacy options - better than in Civ2 but still not as good as other games I could mention - as well as the overall good looks of the game (animated units etc). However, given the choice, I'd rather have my events files back!
There are perhaps 3 major reasons why - ultimately - Civ2 is a better overall gaming experience for me...
1. Events Files! It is a real shame that events files play no part in Civ3 - this was a MAJOR plus to Civ2 when customising and playing user-created historical scenarios. I have 50+ scenarios for Civ2 that I still play - especially 'Second Front', 'Great Napoleonic Battles', 'ZWK', 'Cross and Crescent', and to name but a few... and also any scenario by by kobayashi
2. Mac support and (lack of) development! Dare I say it, but support for us marginalised Mac players has been - to put it politely - minimal. If it wasn't for Brad Oliver I'd have probably sold my copy of Civ3 and devoted even more time to Europa Universalis II (which is currently my favourite Mac game, ever).
3. Editability/Replayability. This links in to point 1 above, but despite all the heroic efforts of Brad Oliver, the Civ2 editor reigns supreme (despite colour pallettes being a tricky issue at times), within the whole package of Civ2 - being able to place units on new maps, add events etc. The endless replayability of Civ2 - given the massive number of high-quality user-created screnarios - far outstrips Civ3 (on a Mac). In the past 2 months I've played three whole Civ2 scenarios (ZWK, RON and GNB) and played '0' Civ3 games! This is from someone who spent several months modding Civ3 last summer... my interest in it has waned pretty considerably - I spend more time coming on here to see if there's any news of C3C!
Don't get me wrong, I still love Civ3 when I'm in the mood/modd, but long term Civ2 Gold wins for me - replayability, events and scenarios!
Hope this fuels some constructive discussions. I hope I am proved wrong, in that some version of PTW or Civ3Conquests magically appears, but until then I'm off to carry on with EU2.
Fruno
P.S. One reason why -for me - EU2 has the edge over Civ3 - is the incorporation of religion as an active aspect of the gameplay, something Civ3 really lacks.
That was a very thoughtful response. Thank you. In the end I decided to give Civ3 another shot, as I thought it was worth trying the game bug free, as it was meant to be played. I'll keep my eyes out for a copy of Civ2 gold, and as soon as I see one in the $10 dollar range, I'll probably snag it as well. I don't do much modding myself, but I'm not above profiting from someone else's work and am absolutely looking for quality scenarios and maps to download. Thanks again.
Btw, I just picked up a copy of Hearts of Iron and am looking forward to trying it out. WWII is more my time period than EU2...
Btw, I just picked up a copy of Hearts of Iron and am looking forward to trying it out. WWII is more my time period than EU2...
frunobulax
High Sheriff of Catford
I must admit that I found Hearts of Iron just too complex. I mean it looks like a fantastic game, but I just can't seem to get to grips with the research side of things, and managing shipping convoys etc! I'll give it another go one of these days when I have a spare month.
EU2 I find more fascinating because of the level of historical detail and events, and I like the fact that many of these events are beyond your control, so it tests your strategic skills even further. I've found that Civ3 can get a little predictable, once you've played every civ at least once.
Anyway, I have a stack of converted Civ2 scenarios for Mac - me and Henrik once embarked on uploading them to this site, but now the link to this page appears to be dead (it's in my signature) so I presume Thunderfall or someone has deleted the page (TF??). We only ever managed to uploaded about 10-12 of the 50+ scenarios we were planning to upload.
I've done a lot of board wargaming in my day, including things like Third Reich and Advanced Squad Leader, so I feel like I will be able to get a handle on the game mechanics- my problem is simply that for most wargames I really don't like the confines of a small screen instead of having a full map out in front of me. Someday I'll pick up one of those lovely flat screens, but for the moment all my gaming is on my laptop, and it's a 12" one. Technically Civ should present the same problem, but I'm so conditioned to playing Civ games that it doesn't bother me.
Regarding scenarios, are there Mac-specific Civ3 scenarios, or will I be able to download anything that a PC player can play, thanks to v.1.29?
Regarding scenarios, are there Mac-specific Civ3 scenarios, or will I be able to download anything that a PC player can play, thanks to v.1.29?
How about Alpha Centauri?
IMHO, much better than Civ3. Better than Civ2 also.
I think the real world historic background of Civ is more compelling than the sci-fi setting of SMAC/X, but the game mechanics seem much better with SMAC/X even though the game is so much older.
IMHO, much better than Civ3. Better than Civ2 also.
I think the real world historic background of Civ is more compelling than the sci-fi setting of SMAC/X, but the game mechanics seem much better with SMAC/X even though the game is so much older.
Brad Oliver
Civ3/4 Mac programmer
Well, let's be fair here. How much support and development are you getting for Civ2 nowadays?
As an aside, and not that it's important since C3C isn't yet on the Mac, but the most recent incarnation of the editor in C3C does give you just about all the flexibility for scenarios that you had with Civ2, as I understand it.
BTW, there's still some movement on Mac SMAC, so I can say that you'll continue to get support for it for some time.
The most recent Carbon beta 3 build even gets you fully working netplay.
dojoboy
Tsalagi
Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri (SMAC). You'll see variations for the expansion pack (which is awesome), Sid Meier's Alien Crossfire (SMAX, SMACX, or SMAC/X). It is a very good game, graphics are outdated (obviously) but still worthy of taking up HD space on my eMac. SMAC fans clamor for a SMAC II, but I don't believe it sold as well as they hoped, guessing because of its sci-fi theme. Check out Aspyr Media for a copy. SMACX is selling for as little as $5 US. But, I don't know if they're still selling copies of SMAC, which is needed for the expansion to run.
Aspyr Media
Now, Civ3 or Civ2? Civ3 is the better game, by far.
frunobulax
High Sheriff of Catford
Originally posted by Brad Oliver
Well, let's be fair here. How much support and development are you getting for Civ2 nowadays?
It doesn't need any
! I even made two scenarios last year (one based on the life of Frank Zappa in fact!). Erm, not really much help not being on the mMac (surely the point?)... two key features (for any [MAC] scenario maker - unless I've been playing just too much HOI and EU2 to notice) an events editor and unit placement.
Originally posted by Brad Oliver
BTW, there's still some movement on Mac SMAC, so I can say that you'll continue to get support for it for some time.
Well, that's something, though I'm not one for netplay.
Originally posted by Brad Oliver
BTW, there's still some movement on Mac SMAC, so I can say that you'll continue to get support for it for some time.
Where is the SMAC Carbon patch posted? I looked here, Mac Game Files, and Aspyr without success. Thanks.
I was just looking for it a couple days ago:
http://www.brad-oliver.com:8080/~boliver/blog/archives/000299.html
Enjoy!
Danapoppa
http://www.brad-oliver.com:8080/~boliver/blog/archives/000299.html
Enjoy!
Danapoppa
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