Civ4 Map Finder Announced!

[Denniz]

When I use it, I have to wait until it loads a game, even if it's a game that doesn't match the rules. Is this correct?

The way to use Map Finder is:

1. Use the Rule Builder to create some rules for what kind of maps to save. name it Default.rul or change the in-game options to point to your rule.
2. Start a new game, custom game is recommended, with all the option,etc. the way you want them. Like you were going to play or regenerate by hand.
3. Press ALT-M to start Map Finder. It will automatically regenerate the map over and over, saving any maps that meet your rule's criteria.

Press ALT-X to stop it.

Use the Map Finder Report to view your saves.

 

[Denniz]

After more research, it looks like the settler can't spawn on top of a resource. So I'll modify my request to:
- Settler is standing on a plains hill
- There is a marble/plains/hill visible
- There is a stone/plains/hill visible

I didn't consider terrain/bonus combinations. Since it will have to be added to the Mod, we should probably consider what other terrain/bonus combination would be useful. That way we don't have to keep changing the mod. Anyone else have any ideas?

In terms of groups of terrain or bonuses, we can add them with out changing code. We might as well try to stay consistant.

 

[Big_Ben]

Some food resource combos would be nice. Grassland pig and grassland deer are the only ones that I think would be different that just plain pig or deer.

Grassland gems would be good. Especially if you could make grassland gems on a river.

 

[Big_Ben]

Ok, I am having a problem. Whenever I go to run the utility ingame it says the path is incorrect and then doesn't run. I think it may be because I boot off my E: drive instead of C: if that makes a difference. However when I installed it it was installed to the correct program files directory.

Another problem is that if you want to start from scratch and go to delete all of the lines and hit delete row 1 extra time the program shuts down. Should be an easy fix. Would also be nice if there was just a clear all button.

 

[Denniz]

Ok, I am having a problem. Whenever I go to run the utility ingame it says the path is incorrect and then doesn't run. I think it may be because I boot off my E: drive instead of C: if that makes a difference. However when I installed it it was installed to the correct program files directory.

Go into the in-game options, HOF3 tab, and make sure that the path there match where you installed. If you installed to E:\Program Files then that is what's going on. It looks by default to C:\Program Files.

Another problem is that if you want to start from scratch and go to delete all of the lines and hit delete row 1 extra time the program shuts down. Should be an easy fix. Would also be nice if there was just a clear all button.

Yeah, that's easy to fix. I suppose I could add a clear button, too. It's on my list.

 

[RemoWilliams]

No, that hasn't changed, you're still allowed to do that.

It's just that I don't feel a computer program should be giving the settle command instead of the human player. Map generating and utilities are all well and good, but HOF games should be played in their entirety by the human.

It's a very subtle line, but this is where I draw it.

Well, with respect, I think it reduces the utility of the mapfinder considerably, to the point where I'll have to regen by hand because the maps I want to find aren't findable with it.

I understand where you're coming from though. I shall only be so impertinent as to point out that if I'm going to have my computer crunching out maps all day long, I'll not accept a position where I would have to move my settler and thereby waste a turn anyway.

Of course, I can play devil's advocate, and point out that I could tweak the query to be less stringent, and only search for the things I won't compromise on, then investigate the maps that show up individually to see if they are what I want. But then Yaweh's advocate pops in and says loading a bunch of starts is nearly as tedious as just hitting regen. I think I have a split personality.

On the gripping hand (1 million points to whoever catches the reference), I appreciate your volunteer work in giving us the mods and the forum to post our achievements. Good work! Don't let my bellyaching detract from your fine efforts.

 

[Miraculix]

No, that hasn't changed, you're still allowed to do that.

It's just that I don't feel a computer program should be giving the settle command instead of the human player. Map generating and utilities are all well and good, but HOF games should be played in their entirety by the human.

It's a very subtle line, but this is where I draw it.

I believe this is the only sensible place to draw the line. Allowing the Map Finder to give a settle command could be a dangerous path to follow. If Map Finder can give a settle command, why not also a settler/warrior/scout move command? And what if these commands pops another settler/warrier/scout? Even a settle command without a move can pop another unit. In principle it is possible to pop an 'infinite' number of units in year 4000BC and still have the possibility to press the Regenerate Map button. Should the number of popped units in 4000BC also be a criterion for selecting maps? For example, when playing G-Minor I, I rejected all maps that didn't pop a settler in 4000BC. But I am prepared to do this manually also in the future, even with Map Finder.

 

[Denniz]

Of course, I can play devil's advocate, and point out that I could tweak the query to be less stringent, and only search for the things I won't compromise on, then investigate the maps that show up individually to see if they are what I want. But then Yaweh's advocate pops in and says loading a bunch of starts is nearly as tedious as just hitting regen. I think I have a split personality.

Have you looked at the Map Finder Report program? You can look at all pic of each save's starting position and the stats easily using it. The idea is that you the rules to find a number of promising starts and then the Report viewer to norrow the list to those you want to try.

Jerry Pournell(sp?), Mote in God's eye. I like my points in small denominations, please.

 

[RemoWilliams]

Have you looked at the Map Finder Report program? You can look at all pic of each save's starting position and the stats easily using it. The idea is that you the rules to find a number of promising starts and then the Report viewer to norrow the list to those you want to try.

Jerry Pournell(sp?), Mote in God's eye. I like my points in small denominations, please.

Bzzzt! It was Niven-Pournelle. Nice try though!

Well, what I'm saying is that if I'm looking for 2 food and a gold in the fat cross, I can find about a zillion maps with 2 of them, but not all 3, unless the fat cross is revealed.

It doesn't seem to be working for me. I'm attaching my rule and the start it found, which doesn't seem to match at all. I have 2 distance selected, and have set up the rule to find 2 food and 1 gold in the fat cross. It found a start that didn't have 2 food even.

I did select my rule from within the game.

 

[Denniz]

Bzzzt! It was Niven-Pournelle. Nice try though!

Well, what I'm saying is that if I'm looking for 2 food and a gold in the fat cross, I can find about a zillion maps with 2 of them, but not all 3, unless the fat cross is revealed.

It doesn't seem to be working for me. I'm attaching my rule and the start it found, which doesn't seem to match at all. I have 2 distance selected, and have set up the rule to find 2 food and 1 gold in the fat cross. It found a start that didn't have 2 food even.

I did select my rule from within the game.

There is a bug where the range is not being used. All visible tiles are considered. I will fix that next Mod release.

You know you don't have to settle in place. With 2 movement your settler can move a square and still settle in 4000BC. I will often move to a Plains Hill and settle the next turn.

 

[RemoWilliams]

There is a bug where the range is not being used. All visible tiles are considered. I will fix that next Mod release.

You know you don't have to settle in place. With 2 movement your settler can move a square and still settle in 4000BC. I will often move to a Plains Hill and settle the next turn.

Oh sure, get all technical on me. Okay, I'll shut up about it.

But, as long as you're fixing the range, do you think we could have a range per row?

 

[dutchfire]

Actually, why doesn't it count strategic resources on Ancient starts?

 

[Denniz]

But, as long as you're fixing the range, do you think we could have a range per row?

That would pretty much be a rewrite. So it will be pretty low on the priority list.

Actually, why doesn't it count strategic resources on Ancient starts?

Because none of them are visible until you discover the tech. Sorry, no spoilers allowed.

 

[dutchfire]

Well, You could play a game as if iron was available in your fat cross, and when you find out it isn't you regenerate. But it's a lot of extra work.

 

[Denniz]

Well, You could play a game as if iron was available in your fat cross, and when you find out it isn't you regenerate. But it's a lot of extra work.

That's true, but we're purists that way. No spoilers. Period.

 

[RemoWilliams]

Well, You could play a game as if iron was available in your fat cross, and when you find out it isn't you regenerate. But it's a lot of extra work.

Was this a serious suggestion or were we making fun of Remo? 'Cause Remo doesn't like that.

 

[godotnut]

OK, so I installed everything correctly (or so it seemed) and followed the rules as best I could. I wanted to test a simple example: I just wanted stone to start. So I created a single rule for stone and saved it as "JustStone." I changed the file name setting in the options screen to "JustStone" and started the program. I was watching it, and I clearly saw a start with stone next to my settler, but it didn't save the start.

I attached a screen shot of the rule generation screen below.

Any clues what's going on here?

 

[RemoWilliams]

OK, so I installed everything correctly (or so it seemed) and followed the rules as best I could. I wanted to test a simple example: I just wanted stone to start. So I created a single rule for stone and saved it as "JustStone." I changed the file name setting in the options screen to "JustStone" and started the program. I was watching it, and I clearly saw a start with stone next to my settler, but it didn't save the start.

I attached a screen shot of the rule generation screen below.

Any clues what's going on here?

Not positive about this, but I've seen it miss the first time I change the rule file. Exiting the program and trying again seemed to help.

 

[Denniz]

OK, so I installed everything correctly (or so it seemed) and followed the rules as best I could. I wanted to test a simple example: I just wanted stone to start. So I created a single rule for stone and saved it as "JustStone." I changed the file name setting in the options screen to "JustStone" and started the program. I was watching it, and I clearly saw a start with stone next to my settler, but it didn't save the start.

I attached a screen shot of the rule generation screen below.

Any clues what's going on here?

Not positive about this, but I've seen it miss the first time I change the rule file. Exiting the program and trying again seemed to help.

RemoWilliams may be right. I will see if I can isolate a cause, but it is probably best to stop Civ4 between attempts

 

[Big_Ben]

What about a copy and paste function? I tried making a pretty detailed rule list earlier and it was kind of bothersome to have 6-7 AND statements that all stayed the same but had to input them all again to just change 1 for the next OR statement.

Also, what is extra base food?