1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Civ4 Modding Suggestions

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Creation & Customization' started by WildWeazel, Oct 8, 2005.

  1. Dale

    Dale Deity

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2002
    Messages:
    7,031
    You don't need to program to mod. Sure some modders are programmers but good mods can be made with no programming knowledge at all.

    Besides, not like python is hard to learn. I picked it up in two weeks. :)

    Dale
     
  2. Spatzimaus

    Spatzimaus Mad Scientist

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2005
    Messages:
    3,063
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Basically, I want them to code a LOT of things into the editor that they don't use in the core game. For instance, take the issue of changing production from one item to another.

    In Civ3, you could change freely and transfer the production.
    In Civ4, you can change, but you have to start from scratch, and every turn that you don't switch back to the in-progress item causes you to lose a little of its production.
    In Alpha Centauri, the first 10 shields could be transferred, and beyond that you'd lose 50%. (The exception was wonder-wonder transfer, but I'd remove that loophole.)

    Now, it's great to say that the Civ4 way is better than the Civ3 way, or the SMAC way was best... I WANT THE OPTION. I want to be able to use a SMAC-like system for a mod.

    I did a bit of this in Civ3, although there you're limited by the 4-era hardcoding, so I was only able to stick in a half-era of "future" techs. I was actually working at compacting the first three eras into two, then using the remaining two for modern and future stuff. So, with Civ4's flexible tech tree, I've been designing an expanded version, waiting only for the various modders on this site to produce the building and unit graphics I'd need.

    Know what I've realized? You could just cut and paste a good part of the tree from Alpha Centauri. It's already got a nice mix of cultural, military, industrial, and environmental techs, with a few really wierd ones mixed in. Plus, if you wanted to transfer those projects over to Civ4... the wonder movies have already been made! Okay, the ones dealing with Planet don't make much sense for Earth, but the rest would work.
     
  3. WildWeazel

    WildWeazel -- Turns to Completion

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2003
    Messages:
    6,871
    Location:
    %CIV3%\Conquests\Scenarios\
    Aussie Lurker was talking about a civil war mod, which would require programming. But you're right, mods like the ones we have made for Civ3 won't require programming.
     
  4. Harrier

    Harrier Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2002
    Messages:
    2,414
    Location:
    UK
    I like this idea as you will get European looking cities on the map with a mixture of differnt ages.

    I would like to change the concept slightly. As you change eras the building cost and support cost of the improvement should increase a bit. To compensate for the extra cost you get an increase in the benifit of the building.

    i.e. A granary needs slightly less food to increase the population..
    A forge increases shields by a few extra shields.
    A bank gives extra gold (plus 55% commerce instead of 50%) etc.


    When you change eras (however that is defined) you then get the option of upgrading your older buildings (like units) to receive the increased benefit. Assuming of course you can afford too.

    This could be done in the city screen - position the cursor over a building and a pop-up shows that it can be upgraded, its benefit, its extra cost and support. If you choose to upgrade the city graphic changes.

    In somecases the benefit may not be worth the extra outlay. For example a city with just a forge and one mined tile. The few extra shields you get may not be worth the extra outlay. But a city with say 6 mined tiles it would be worth it.

    This idea would simulate the improved efficiency of civilizations over the eras and higher costs involved.

    For those who think this involves adding too much micro management - they can just keep using the older buidings. But it is no worse than upgrading units. You could also have a multiple or automatic upgrade option if it was wanted - though this would not be as efficient.
     
  5. Harrier

    Harrier Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2002
    Messages:
    2,414
    Location:
    UK
    They took away the dinasaur on the world map - so i do not think they will add dragons. :D (only joking - I know its a typo.)

    On resources: in DYP and R&R they became visible a few techs before they could be used. This gave you time to either road, colonise or build a city near them before they were needed.


    Two more ideas for modding.

    1. Unit Support.

    Assuming units need support as in Civ3, what happens whwn the money runs out?
    Are they disbanded as in Civ3?

    If the answer is yes I would like to see the following in a mod.

    When you can not afford the upkeep of a unit (for what ever reason) the unit is made immobile, instead of it being disbanded.

    You can no longer give it orders - it has mutinied or run out of supplies.

    You only regain control of that unit when you have the gold to pay its wages/supplies.

    To simulate its lack of readiness for combat the following should also happen.

    Each turn it is imobile it should loose 5% of its defense capability. The reverse of a defending unit.

    Also if it is attacked and it has first strike capability that should not apply.

    Maybe it should also lose a few damage points - to represent those soldiers who mutiny and leave the main body.



    2. Great Leaders.

    I think there should be a military great leader also.


    They could be used for:

    1. Has the potential to trigger a Golden Age (or GA). Requires two Great People for the first GA

    2. They can discover a Military-Related Technology, for example, Military Tradition.

    3. Increases the defence and attack abilities of units they are stacked with by 25%.

    4. Build military improvements - e.g. the castle.


    They could be generated :

    1. Randomly through battles.
    2. Points from military specialists. (Which would also need to be added).
    3. Points could be accumulated from military improvements.

    The military specialist would also improve the experiance levels of units built in that city. Like barracks.
     
  6. Modifiable

    Modifiable Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Messages:
    48
    I'm really surprised that with all of the great ideas here, no one has had the idea I had right from the start. Change all of the Techs right from the start, mod some different units, all of a sudden you've got a cIV based SMAC 2! You'd need to change the leaders and things, it would be a lot of work, but it seems like you could have a sequel to SMAC pretty realistically.
     
  7. Mannu

    Mannu Warlord

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2005
    Messages:
    230
    Instead of "when animals attack" maybe someone can mod that out and in its place enter code for land units similar to how units in ocean tiles work.

    If a unit is not within any nations borders, then there is a 1 in N chance each turn that the unit will be "lost in the wilderness".

    Designated explorer units could either ignore this or have a much greater chance of not being lost. The rate would be much less than the chance of units at sea being lost though, but still often enough that sending units outside of your borders early is risky. Maybe especially so for settlers or workers who can't defend themselves. This would make resource grabbing by placing cities or colonies more of a risky gambit.

    I prefer this to fighting bears... Apologies if this has been suggested already...
     
  8. Spatzimaus

    Spatzimaus Mad Scientist

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2005
    Messages:
    3,063
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Yes, but I just don't see that happening. The key problem is that SMAC had some mechanics that were substantially different from anything they've had in the Civ series. For instance:
    > Air units didn't have to end the turn in a city each turn (and in the late-game, ones that never needed to land)
    > Cities could be built on sea tiles
    > Fungus, with its impacts on movement, resources, spawning mindworms, etc.
    > Landmarks, with their various bonuses
    > Psychic combat!
    > Formers could raise/lower terrain
    > Having unit support be city-by-city, costing shields instead of money, but with re-basing allowed.
    > Units with less than one movement point were fractionally less effective, and winning a fight didn't move you into the opponent's square.
    > The modular construction system for units, which is drastically different than the promotions system Civ4 is based on.
    > All the strange late-game techs; teleportation, orbital insertions, satellites that added food/minerals/energy, that sort of stuff.

    My point is, I'd say that these put together are far more than anyone could place in a mod, and many absolutely require the developers to add new capabilities to the engine. It's easier, then, if you keep it on Earth, stick with something closer to the core Civ4 rules, and just grab whatever pieces seem appropriate for a "future" era. That's what I'm talking about; adding maybe 30-40 techs to the end of the tree, with whatever wonders aren't AC-specific.

    But, this means that what we should be doing is asking Firaxis to make the first Civ4 expansion be Civ 4: Alpha Centauri! Not only would it work as a stand-alone scenario, but you could play the Epic game, with the combined tech trees. And really, many of these modifications would be good for other scenarios. Fantasy settings want a teleportation option. Quite a few scenarios would benefit from naval cities. And so on.
     
  9. dsplaisted

    dsplaisted Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2005
    Messages:
    52
    I have hopes that it will be possible to implement most or all of the things you mention with the tools that they provide us, especially once they release the SDK. Now, it would require a lot of work, especially for something like the unit design workshop.

    I know that the maps are generated with python scripts, so I see no reason why we couldn't modify the map generation to include landmarks. My impression is that almost all of the game logic is moddable. The terrain in alpha centauri had different elevations which it would probably not be possible to display nicely in Civ IV, but that's a limitation of the graphic engine.

    Daniel
     
  10. WildWeazel

    WildWeazel -- Turns to Completion

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2003
    Messages:
    6,871
    Location:
    %CIV3%\Conquests\Scenarios\
    Nukes:
    Destroy wonders and railroads, but not roads
    Destroy all units in target tile, more population
    Revert global warming to nuclear winter (change to tundra instead of desert)
    MUCH higher chances of nuclear winter (1/10?)
    TMP small wonder
    Reduce ICBM range to ~1/2 of map
    Add tactical nuke a la Civ3
    Allow targeting own land/units
    Higher diplomatic penalty
    Allow NNPT violation with same diplo effects as using nukes
     
  11. covenant

    covenant Warlord

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2004
    Messages:
    162
    More and more and more UN options. This might be tough though cause the AI needs to know how to use them.

    Things like someone can propose to stop a war between countries. If the vote passes, all units are moved out of the opposing countries territory to the closest friendly territory. And then reparations are made.

    Everyone must pay money to the UN. The UN can then use that to send troops to enforce a its policies.

    You can ignore things (like the Non-proliferation treaty) at the cost of losing your seat on the UN and negative costs to your diplomatic standings. You can reapply at the next meeting that is five turns after you were ousted.

    Things like this will keep the end game much more exciting as you fight to survive in a global world.
     
  12. WildWeazel

    WildWeazel -- Turns to Completion

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2003
    Messages:
    6,871
    Location:
    %CIV3%\Conquests\Scenarios\
    Don't forget optional UN membership. ;)
    or is it optional already?
     
  13. MRM

    MRM Prince

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2005
    Messages:
    518
    Location:
    Hamburg, Germany
    I would say both - the chilling effect let the icecaps grow, OTOH regions near the equator - it would be weird if there is suddenly ice ( should be the last region that is effected by the growing icecaps ) but tropical regions could be punished with less furtile tiles or even growing deserts. Regions at ground zero should IMO allways turn to desert ( exept they are burried by growing icecaps )

    I agree with NNPT violation in generall. Higher diplomatic penalty is IMO not nessecary, after a few nukes you are enemy no 1 for the rest of the world. I just ask myself who to end a nukelear war ? If earth is almost destroyed I think most civs would join a peacedeal, just because they are tired of the nuclearwar after it raged for a while , even if they are extreme hostile against each other now. Just ask myself how this could work ...
     
  14. WildWeazel

    WildWeazel -- Turns to Completion

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2003
    Messages:
    6,871
    Location:
    %CIV3%\Conquests\Scenarios\
    I meant a shift towards tundra, not directly to tundra. Desert > plains > grassland > tundra; forest > base > tundra.
    Depending on how the polar regions work (it's hard to tell from the screenshots) it may be possible to have growing ice sheets that cover sea and land alike.
     
  15. WildWeazel

    WildWeazel -- Turns to Completion

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2003
    Messages:
    6,871
    Location:
    %CIV3%\Conquests\Scenarios\
    Yar!
    There should be some form of piracy. The privateer in Civ3 just didn't cut it. I'm not really sure how to implement it, but it should be something that can actually affect the game.
     
  16. hajmyis

    hajmyis Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2005
    Messages:
    68
    Location:
    colorado
    I would like to see the Civics system expanded.....how way more in each category like atleast ten, and be able to choice 2 or three in each category....8)
     
  17. WildWeazel

    WildWeazel -- Turns to Completion

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2003
    Messages:
    6,871
    Location:
    %CIV3%\Conquests\Scenarios\
    Choose 2 or 3 different options in the same civics catergory? How would that work?
     
  18. holy king

    holy king Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2003
    Messages:
    16,323
    Location:
    Vienna, Austria
    i say it again: i want civil wars!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    any programmer who can hear me out there????????????????
     
  19. WildWeazel

    WildWeazel -- Turns to Completion

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2003
    Messages:
    6,871
    Location:
    %CIV3%\Conquests\Scenarios\
    This one can. Unfortunately this one doesn't know C++ and only a little bit of C.
     
  20. holy king

    holy king Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2003
    Messages:
    16,323
    Location:
    Vienna, Austria
    GRRRRRRRRR:mad: :mad: :mad:
    if cant do it get out of my sight :mischief: :D :D ;)
     

Share This Page