Civ4 shows liberal bias?

[PekkaM]

We also have Al Gore insulted, slavery being mighty good system, religious wars etc.

Mr. thread starter, you sure have one sided view of things.

 

[Vladesch]

There is no evidence that global warming is caused by any human activities at all. Whatever climate variations we see are explained far more robustly as just being part of the natural cycle.

Yeah, im sure the melting of the antarctic ice sheets that have been in place for thousands of years are part of a natural cycle. Its obviously just coincidence that this is happening at the same time cabon dioxide levels are hitting peak levels due to burning of fossil fuels.

Do you even know what the greenhouse effect is, and what its caused by?

Perhaps if you actually knew what you were talking about you could have made the (quite valid) criticism that nuclear fallout doesnt contribute to global warming.

Sorry to the other readers for the flames, but such stupid remarks shouldnt get away unchecked.

 

[warpus]

I fail to see what most, if *anything*, of the points raised in the OP has to do with "liberals".

to americans, the word "liberal" means something entirely different than the word you would find if you had looked it up in the dictionary.

 

[Sgt.Keel]

Now that we're on this subject: Can anyone explain to me, where this absolutely weird concept stems from that conservatives in the US always use "liberal" as an insult in the form "liberal==communist==anti-economy". I mean, it's the exact opposite of the word "liberal"'s actual meaning, as used by the rest of the world. Anyone care to explain this to an Old European (tm)?

Yours
Markus

 

[Ex-Cop]

I agree with point 7. American patiotism is fascism.

 

[The Last Conformist]

I was gonna say "if so, so what", but then I read the OP and realized this thread belongs in H&J.

 

[Xenocrates]

Oh man I think this thread was started from the other side of the looking glass.

Nuclear power is clean and good right?

True, unless you consider the energy and pollution caused by mining, processing and storing the fissile material and the waste. And then the damage caused by the post-reactor waste over millions of years and the cost of dealing with it.

That changes the equation. Is the definition of a conservative in US: 'one who neglects to analyse the whole system before making a judgement'? The purpose of the nuclear industry was solely to make bombs. At least it is in the UK, I can't imagine that the Amerikans have a different reason. The civil 'benefits' are bunk.

Other posters have dealt with other points.


OP get a grip man.

PS. The OP may be joking of course.......

 

[Thalassicus]

I don't know exactly where the term "liberal" came to have its current meaning among many members of the US. Did anyone see the debate between Smitts and Alda on the West Wing a few weeks ago? Smitts was right: liberals ended slavery, pushed through the Civil Rights movement, and brought the country out of a depression. Why would being a liberal be a bad thing?

 

[ghen]

My personal views on being a 'liberal' when it comes to politics in the US.. Liberals are those who aren't afraid of changing the status quo if things aren't right. They're the first to denounce inequality. They also fight for the 'american dream' which is to start your own business and be able to compete with established conglomerates.

Some people tend to think of liberals as creating larger government to meet their goals but I find that laughable in the face of all the invasive laws Bush has signed.

Now lets hear the other side from a conservative

 

[Psyringe]

And here it is, the obligatory US "conservative vs. liberal" flame war. This flame war happens in every single internet forum I read, although it's mostly confined to the off topic section (where it belongs). And I really don't understand it.

To be precise: I *do* understand that people can have radically different political views. What I don't understand is this almost religious zeal, with which a growing number of people takes this debate to every single place they frequent, and condemn every single person or piece of media that happen to have a different opinion.

I'm not entirely sure, but I don't think that these discussions were so rampant, and so harsh, 10 or 20 years ago. This leads me to believe that there is a deep rupture running through the American population at the moment - which is exactly the opposite of what the current president promised to do after his first election, when, after winning in one of the most disputed ways ever, he claimed that he will be a president for all Americans. I remember this speech of him quite well (saw it on TV), because I had heavily favoured Al Gore, but after this speech of Bush I felt that he might be more responsible than I thought. Unfortunately, it turned out to be just propaganda.

My biggest concern is that this rupture, this division which his policies helped to create, is the one legacy that will outlive him, no matter who follows him. It doesn't seem as if the people coukd be brought back together anytime soon.

 

[salty]

Okay, I just got news that Firaxis just caved to the conservative lobby. The expansion pack will feature a new space ship victory. Anyone building a spaceship will not launch to Alpha Centauri, but will have the ability to once per turn, beam any one enemy city to Blargon 7. Hopefully this will ameliorate the 'liberal' bias.

 

[AU_Armageddon]

Heh, good thread. I agree and there's still many more examples. The selection of quotes shows the lefty bias of the game too. I like Lincoln's quote when you research Democracy for political relevency and a nice stab at Bush (and the right wing climate in the west inc Australia & GB) and of all the possible and appropriate choices, the cynical quotes given when you discover Economics and Corporation really betray their alignment.

I reckon Leonard Nemoy was probably their second choice for narration. The game woulda been much better suited with Michael Moore pushing their fundy wit.

The civilopedia is just as bad. Many entires have a subtle but still distinct left slant to em.

Political correctness in favour of reason is the hallmark of liberals and uglies up many rules which, though still contributing to a GREAT GAME, constrain it from being as good it truly could have been (there are numerous examples, but religion is of course the most obvious, any person of thinking capacity can see that though it works, it simply would be more interesting, more fun, more realistic, and make for an even better game if it wasn't dumbed down to appease the bored bleeding hearts amongst us).

What would make for a fun discussion (and amusing mod) is to imagine and reinvent the Civ4 we would have got if Rumsfeld, Cheney, Howard and Costello were the lead designers instead (not Bush cos I already played GI Joe versus the Smurfs back on my C64. I will give it this, at least Nukes were Nukes ).

 

[Thalassicus]

The irony of a side claiming to be in favor of smaller government is that neither really is. Libertarianism typically refers to the desire for a smaller government; populist refers to the desire for a larger government. Right or left-wing views just differ on what the focus of government should be. Left-wing platforms in the US propose the government to focus on public affairs (education, health care, foreign relations). Right-wing platforms propose the government to focus on private affairs (moral values, marriage, reproductive rights, religion).

Neither is supporting a bigger or smaller government in reality. If you downsize your opponent more than you improve the size of your own power base, it'll appear you're making government smaller, when in actuality you're just shifting things around.

I'm not sure if that was off-topic or not...but the thread is a little off topic anyways

 

[AU_Armageddon]

Incidentally, (for Australian readers) 'Liberal' in Australia is not the same as the meaning of the word posted above, or the American political use of the word. Our Liberal party is actually the right wing mob (they like to call themselves centre-right, but the new anti-privacy, anti-liberty and anti-union reforms all introduced in previous 4 weeks, along with racist rioting making it's first appearance as the government's stance filters through our society dispels any possible clinging to centre-right).

Labour are our Left option (although in our current reality they would more appropriately be labeled centre-right. They just look left next to the fascists just like an ugly chick can look okay when she's standing next to a fat chick ).

 

[Swiss Bezerker]

6. Political correctness taken to the point of ridiculousness with the presence of Jewish missionaries and other religious incongruities. Either go all the way or don't. If you want to give us equal religions, then don't call them by their real-world names.

your saying that them jews dont have missionary! They do, and so do the buddhists( check the civilopedia for asoka i think)
u may say that confusionists and toaists did not have missionaries, But how do you think it spread from one village to another. Any one going somewhere with the perpose of teaching a religon is a missionary

Also, if u gave cristians and islamics missionaries but none for other religons, it becomesa very big gameplay issue

 

[Rane Khan]

The irony of a side claiming to be in favor of smaller government is that neither really is. Liberitarianism typically refers to the desire for a smaller government; populist refers to the desire for a larger government. Right or left-wing views just differ on what the focus of government should be. Left-wing platforms in the US propose the government to focus on public affairs (education, health care, foreign relations). Right-wing platforms propose the government to focus on private affairs (moral values, marriage, reproductive rights, religion).

Neither is supporting a bigger or smaller government in reality. If you downsize your opponent more than you improve the size of your own power base, it'll appear you're making government smaller, when in actuality you're just shifting things around.

I'm not sure if that was off-topic or not...but the thread is a little off topic anyways

Amen, couldn't have said it better myself...

 

[Panda]

Yeah! And The French ain't pink anymore either!!!

 

[holy king]

at least now i know who that dan quayle is...
hilarious quotes ;-)

 

[Indiemonkey]

So basically for "Liberal" see "The way the rest of the world sees things" - i.e. America isn't amazing and all powerful, a "good" leaders who attempt to improve things for the greater portion of their population rather than just a rich few and fight ACTUAL injustice rather than just different ideologies abroad, and pollution isn't a fiction dreamed up by the (really obviously in the U.S. ) liberal media, and the U.N. can be a force for good (if certain states didn't attempt to veto and hold things up at every step if things don't go their way).

 

[Proper Gander]

nice thread, and i am happy that the OP has pretty generally been put right, thank god there are sensible left wingers here.

4. For even more laughs let's make the nuclear plant meltdowns cause global warming. There is no evidence that global warming is caused by any human activities at all. Whatever climate variations we see are explained far more robustly as just being part of the natural cycle. The false spectre of human-caused global warming is nothing more than an anti-capitalist political ploy.

THAT is a very dangerous attitude. it's better if one's concerned about it, and tries to do something about it. rather than discard it and have a pretty nasty irreversible surprise....

by the way, ever hear of the gulfstream? ironically we northern europeans could haev a very cold time ahead of us, due to global warming.

5. Why FDR and no Ronald Reagan? They both defeated horrible enemies, and are both dead, but FDR gave us the legacy of New-Deal socialism while Reagan tried to reverse that trend.

aaah yes, Reagan, good lad.

(sorry couldn't resist)

7. Fascism enabling the building of Mt. Rushmore. Moral relativism at its most disgusting - i.e. equating American patriotism with Fascism.

heh, that made me laugh when i saw that in the game...

I don't necessarily dissagree with your primary thesis, but I will say that I'm tired of conservatives victimizing themselves, as if everyone is out to get them. The media is liberal,the universities are liberal, the intellectuals want to destroy capitilism, the secularists want to destroy morality...blah blah blah. Get over it.

YEAH! we 'liberals' don't complain that the biggoted farmers are conservative!

i think history and recent events have shown that the 'liberals' (left wing) aren't all that bad. it's the conservatives (right wing) that have done some pretty nasty stuff. at least, to a greater extent.

islamic fundamentalist extremists are purely conservative, the third reich, stalin (yes yes, commie filth blah blah blah, he was most definitely right wing with his policies, infact most communits dictators are/were)