[GS] Civ6 Deity AI Vs. Civ5 Deity AI.

[Naokaukodem]

I managed to win once (didn't try it again since) on Deity in Civ5, without a single war whereas at the end everybody nuked everybody, I was the only one with no fallout on his territory. I diverted the attention of my neighbour when he was amassing troops near my borders, and bribed him to attack his other neighbour. I really did good, because even though they were same ideology, he conquered him totally.

So I'd say we can manipulate Civ5 AI more than Civ6's. (devs' choice, probably good)

On the other hand, I still didn't manage to win on Deity in Civ6. I take Seondeok (Korea), Normal map size with 2 less civs than default (so 6 instead of 8), disable barbarians (a real pain occasionnally) and goody huts (disapointing especiallly in Deity), try to spam settlers between my Seowons (science district) and various improvements, but after a while i'm still only third at science, with much late by 30-40 beakers from the second and around 80 from the first. The second is Gilgamesh (competed in science with him in a previous try that was uncertain due to another far civ near cultural victory so i gave up - didn't want to continue the save), and the first is... Scotland ? Can't remember anyway while Gilga and me have 6 GS ppt, the first one has around 37 GS ppt ! Isn't it insane ? And that's with the 100% adjacency bonus card for science districts !
So I'm not even sure i will compete later.

That's why i would say that Civ6 Deity AI is better than Civ5's, even if they have to start with 3 settlers instead of 2 to achieve this.

On a side note, I like to play Settler games in order to try to build ALL the wonders. I must say it's often disappointing, as the AI even in Settler can rush them. One day, an AI even tried to capture my capital full of wonders, I don't remember if they succeeded but that was on SETTLER ! Nothing alike could even happen in Civ5.

 

[enKage]

You cannot compare sth that not exists.
civ6 AI does not exist.

I needed 3 years to win deity civ4 (India)
I needed 3 months to win deity civ5 (Inca)
I needed 3 games to win deity civ6 (Japan)

 

[Naokaukodem]

Good for you !

It seems we are not in the same boat. I never beat Civ4 Deity. Took me 8 years (youtube watches included) to beat Civ5 Deity. (Korea ? probably) Maybe I'm not familiar enough with the meta, but i'm struggling to beat 6's Deity. I also think there's a lot more luck factor in 6.

 

[Vahnstad]

I have trouble winning on normal difficulty on civ 5, esp. if going wide. But if i go tall, i need a dedicated strategy. On civ 6 i have managed to defeat difficulty 7, and when everything will go well i will defeat deity. I'm currently playing deity games. I reroll a lot, but i'm improving, and i had such a huge margin on my immortal win, that i'll defeat deity someday.

I was better in vanilla civ 6 though. The game is more difficult now. I regret not defeating deity AI on vanilla. But deity is doable now unlike previous games.

And i really, really suck in civ 5. I play normal difficulty there and still have a challenging game, while only immortal and deity or peaceful king or level 6 offers that to me. Domination is easiest, or at least conquering 1, 2, 3 threatening civs, and their infrastructre leads you to an easy victory. Survive in the beginning, flourish in the end is my strategy, while going full agressive early on for barbs and other civs. Barbs however are more difficult in civ 6 and can delay a start. It's very luck based, and I reroll if i start on one of the Poles and see tundra.

Building wonders is not done, esp. early on (some exceptions aside like the ones the AI don't prioritize), just conquer them.

I never finished a civ 4 game. I defeated King once in civ 5. And immortal on civ 6.

And speaking off i'm now alphabetically playing each civ on 6 and after a few rolls i'm doing relatively well with Alexander on deity. I'm hoping this is going to be the game where i finally defeat deity.

 

[Naokaukodem]

Yeah it's true i beat Civ6 Vanilla Deity too... but if i had to guess it was with the infinite cash bug lol. We are both on the verge to beat GS Deity, but not still quite for me i'm afraid. Even if I know that the gap between the player and the AIs can seem unbearable, but it doesn't mean we can't win.

EDIT : it's normal you don't win or quit in Civ5 going wide, because your firepower is far more important than your Global Happiness can handle cities. Global Happiness in that game made me struggle long time, until I discovered it was perfectly fitting Deity difficulty / Firepower compared to AIs. And you have to take care not to grow too quickly compared to your production too. (it can happen in 5 to have massive growth in some cities but that has few production, especially puppeted ones)

 

[bengalryan9]

It's been awhile since I've played, but I remember thinking the AI was completely braindead in Civ 5 to the point where I downloaded a mod off of her to improve it's AI within days of downloading. Granted, I came to Civ5 way late in it's lifespan (the fact that mod was available is an indication of that) and I wasn't trying on Deity (I was probably on Monarch or something).

Civ 6's AI is not good - especially compared to that modded Civ5 AI which was pretty awesome - but it still seems lightyears ahead of the unmodded Civ5 AI.

Maybe it's just me, I don't know... like I said, it's been awhile.

 

[Naokaukodem]

Civ 6's AI is not good [...] but it still seems lightyears ahead of the unmodded Civ5 AI.

Yeah I agree with that. Civ5 Deity AI was frightening due to its production bonuses and thus its huge and strong armies, but Civ6' is more subtle. Last try, still with Korea, I was catching up with science when Gilgamesh declared a surprise war on me, he sent straight right a Cavalry, when I had only 3 Archers, a Horseman and a Swordman, and no wall whatsoever in any of my cities. I quitted. It felt like I was a City-State catching up in science by the miracle of my Unique Building, but couldn't build anything else really. I was near the pole and at least 2 of my 5-6 cities had low production. AI did what has to be done, GG.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

You can sometimes even with a single city (yes there are one city challenge victories in civ VI on deity) outdo most or maybe even all of the ai in terms of science and Culture.

Things to keep in mind:

• The ai throw huge sums of money to purchase things like diplo favor and resources so selling those make sense, also selling great works if you get a new writer, artist and so on so you can replace them
• City states are very important, they give diplomatic favor for selling, bonuses to buidlings and specific bonuses if you become their sovereign
• Chopping, especially with Magnus can give a huge boost to your economy, 3 trees always give enough production to get up a district, 2 I think with Magnus
• You don't need to settle spam in order to win, you can win with even one city but getting atleast 4 will make it possible to get all insperations and eurkas tied to cities, obviously this won't likely be a fast victory but it may be more realistic at times, like building a city in terrible land without possible chops or anything else won't help you in most cases.
• Production is more important than food but ignoring food completely is also not a good idea, good loactions have a mix between large flat areas for farms and hills/forest for production
• If you fear an early rush, get archers and maybe walls, but send a delegation and maybe if need like 100 gold to the ai to keep them happy and maybe allow getting a friendship is a better idea

I don't think you need luck to win civ 6 on deity if you don't handicap yourself in any way. The ai do get a headstart but it develop slowly afterwards while players can develop much more exponential and surpass the ai by far even in peaceful games. If you make it out the early game you should be able to row in the victory as early game is when the ai and also barbarians are at their peak relative to the players.

 

[Naokaukodem]

- I don't feel AI buys my resources a decent price... be them strategic or luxury... most of deals are for 3 GPT and some flat bucks. Better deals are 5 GPT. Exceptional deals are quite surprising.
- City-States usefulness is quite random, depending on which of them are in the game.
- Chopping is not that great, it gives mere production and not that much, while preventing you to build lumbermills for a LONG TIME. Not to mention those nice 2food/2prod tiles with forests or jungle on hills, it's better to wait a little and build lumbermills on them (especially forests, for jungles it takes too long) And by the time I get a governor, there's nothing left to chop where Magnus is and less yet when his promotion for Settlers is reached.
- 1 city for science victory and no conquest ? On Deity ? Hmm.
- Yeah I know but the map is so random that it's pretty rare to find several such locations. The map generator is a jerk.
- I don't fear for early rush since I play with two civs less than default. On the other hand, It lets plenty space for AIs to develop, I experienced it with my last game, Scotland was skyrocketting in science, even more than Korea (me) or Gilgamesh. Can't have the best of two worlds. If i play another game I guess I will turn back to default number of civs and either pray or focus a bit more on units early.

I simply feel you and me do not play the same game. I had the same feeling with Civ5 watching at Marbozir. I have happened to know about the legend of "youtuber luck". I must say i quite agree with that legend.

 

[Lily_Lancer]

It actually took me 3 games to win Civ5 Deity.

However in Civ6 I nearly never played on any difficulty other than deity. Deity on Civ6 is a beginner level which a beginner can safely start with on his very first game and still wins.

 

[bengalryan9]

Deity on Civ6 is a beginner level which a beginner can safely start with on his very first game and still wins.

Exaggerated as always.

 

[Naokaukodem]

However in Civ6 I nearly never played on any difficulty other than deity. Deity on Civ6 is a beginner level which a beginner can safely start with on his very first game and still wins.

Maybe on Vanilla (unpatched ?) but certainly not in GS.

 

[kaspergm]

Civ6 is the first game where I can actually win on Diety. Not every game, but then again, I'm not playing an optimal win-fastest strategy. So far, I've managed to win on Diety with Korea, Japan (I did not realize how strong they were, haven't played that civ for ages), Kongo (relic from goody hut on turn 2 certainly helped), and I'm currently playing an Aztec game where I'm well underway in crushing Brazil after taking out Arabia early, which will definitely make me snowball - it took me a number of failed starts with the Aztec before I got off to a decent start, however, I did not play that civ for ages, and all-out war is not my general game style.

 

[Vahnstad]

It actually took me 3 games to win Civ5 Deity.

However in Civ6 I nearly never played on any difficulty other than deity. Deity on Civ6 is a beginner level which a beginner can safely start with on his very first game and still wins.

That's absolutely not true.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

.

That's absolutely not true.

If you can win on the highest difficulty on past civ games, chances are you can quickly win on the highest difficulty on other civ games since much of it is similar, especially playing the diplomacy game. Civ 3 and 4 you had to deal with Tech trading to keep up and in 5 and 6 it is about getting as much gold as possible out of the ai.

Also people can have watched or read on how to play the game which can help alot with their own performance. Doing this can allow you to win more or less any 4x game on highest difficulty in your first try or come close to a win. Also it help alot if you are willing to do all Micro and Everything else to squeeze out every advantage you can get, but this could greatly slow down the game, like I have seen people take like 100 hours to finish a civ 4 game which is quite crazy.

Obvviously if you think the game is too easy, you can do stuff like giving the ai a 50 turn headstart, no trading, no diplomacy, no war of conquest and so on which will make the game far more difficult without making it unwinnable.

 

[Vahnstad]

.
If you can win on the highest difficulty on past civ games, chances are you can quickly win on the highest difficulty on other civ games since much of it is similar, especially playing the diplomacy game. Civ 3 and 4 you had to deal with Tech trading to keep up and in 5 and 6 it is about getting as much gold as possible out of the ai.

Also people can have watched or read on how to play the game which can help alot with their own performance. Doing this can allow you to win more or less any 4x game on highest difficulty in your first try or come close to a win. Also it help alot if you are willing to do all Micro and Everything else to squeeze out every advantage you can get, but this could greatly slow down the game, like I have seen people take like 100 hours to finish a civ 4 game which is quite crazy.

Obvviously if you think the game is too easy, you can do stuff like giving the ai a 50 turn headstart, no trading, no diplomacy, no war of conquest and so on which will make the game far more difficult without making it unwinnable.

Well you're right, but he's not. He exaggerates a lot.

 

[Hokie Fan]

I find the difference in Civ 6 between Deity and Immortal to be much less pronounced than in Civ 5.

In Civ 6, I don't find the difficulty difference between Immortal and Deity that significant. For both levels, your main threat to losing or getting delayed is having an aggressive neighbor/an early rush. On Deity, it is somewhat more likely you experience this, but generally, if you're good enough to win on Immortal for Civ 6, you're likely fine on Deity.

In Civ 5, by contrast, the difference between the two levels is much more important. Deity on Civ 5 is the only level where the AI gets that extra settler, which is critical because of the lack of growth when building settlers. On Civ 5, after consistently playing on Deity, I find it hard to play a relaxing game on Immortal because the AI isn't capable enough of posing an early challenge without that extra city.

As far as overall difficulty, I don't really think there's that much of a difference between Civ 5 and Civ 6. Both really just involve getting a foothold early and then winning late based on your superiority knowledge of the mechanics.

 

[Vahnstad]

I find the difference in Civ 6 between Deity and Immortal to be much less pronounced than in Civ 5.

In Civ 6, I don't find the difficulty difference between Immortal and Deity that significant. For both levels, your main threat to losing or getting delayed is having an aggressive neighbor/an early rush. On Deity, it is somewhat more likely you experience this, but generally, if you're good enough to win on Immortal for Civ 6, you're likely fine on Deity.

In Civ 5, by contrast, the difference between the two levels is much more important. Deity on Civ 5 is the only level where the AI gets that extra settler, which is critical because of the lack of growth when building settlers. On Civ 5, after consistently playing on Deity, I find it hard to play a relaxing game on Immortal because the AI isn't capable enough of posing an early challenge without that extra city.

As far as overall difficulty, I don't really think there's that much of a difference between Civ 5 and Civ 6. Both really just involve getting a foothold early and then winning late based on your superiority knowledge of the mechanics.

Well, than I can beat deity. I am currently playing deity and i'm doing very well. Could win my first deity game.

 

[Tiberiu]

.Obvviously if you think the game is too easy, you can do stuff like giving the ai a 50 turn headstart, no trading, no diplomacy, no war of conquest and so on which will make the game far more difficult without making it unwinnable.

I have actually done this as an experiment with Polynesia in Huge Terra map Civ 5 Deity. Went straight to the other continent with my settler. Settled on turn 49. Game was winnable, and this tells you everything that you need to know about the strenght of Civ 5 Diety AI.

 

[Naokaukodem]

and this tells you everything that you need to know about the strenght of Civ 5 Diety AI.

Well if you put 50 turns to settle your first city, it means that the map is so large that you basically won't encounter any competition during the whole game. (number of AI civs is more limited than in Civ5)