Civics balance thoughts (post-BtS)

Calculate it. I doubt it would. Heck, Bureaucracy > Free Speech for a lot of the game! (When many cottages aren't towns yet). The bonus Bureaucracy gives is huge, when your capital has the most developed cottages that is.

I remember seeing a thread with an in-depth discussion with calculations of bureaucracy some time ago, I cannot remember the name though.

Calculate what? Would what? :confused:

I don't undestand, I did not speak of Free speech at all in y previous posts, only about nationhood.

azzaman333 > not if you don't rely on cottages; once again, it's all about situations. But I'm sure that now I would also draft with cottages in the capital :lol:

madscientist > I must say I also like to be able to do both ;)
 
What synergy does Vass have with Pacifism? One gives you free units and xp the other increases unit support costs. Someone ran an experiment to see what happens if you stay under the free unit cap--do those units not count for Pacifism? The answer: they always count. It's not really 100% free, it's more like, it's free but then Pacifism tacks on +1 upkeep to EVERYTHING.

Sorry if this is in the wrong board...but these would be my thoughts on ideal civics balance, post-BtS...without adding any civics...(I'm thinking of posting on that, also...)

1) This really dosen't directly have to do with civics, but it affects them indirectly: fix Corporations. Namely, lower their upkeep to a reasonable, but impacting, level, make it so foreign corps have the current upkeep levels in your cities, but no upkeep for their founders PLUS they get the gold bonus for their founders granted by the corporate headquarters.

2) Currently, Government seems like the most balanced category to me...BUT....

Hereditary Rule needs some motivation to stay in other than diplomatic, after

the pyramids are built. I suggest lowered upkeep or +1 military exp. from

castles. Maybe even a return to Medium upkeep in combination, if that's OP.

Meanwhile, PS is undeniably weak, and solution is not lowering it's upkeep.

The civilopedia wrongly states that there is a espianoge bonus: this fits with

the flavor of the civic, and would be a nice buff. In Fact, I think Hereditary

rule should be: +1 :), +1 exp. from Castles, +1 or 2 :) from walls, -25 or 50%

WW (glory and honor for fighting for the king) while PS should have +1:) for

each unit in city, +50% Esp., +25% unit production.

3) Simply put: who's going to use anything but Free Speech or Vassalage

unless your empire is small and you're going for a Bueracratic Space Race?

Put Bueracracy back at medium, it wasn't overpowered, and put Free Speech

at high. Then, frankly, remove the free units from Vassalage: the exp. is

powerful enough, and the fact that it has synergy with Pacifism is silly. This

would enable Nationhood balance amidst the other Legals.

4) Come to think about it, I use the Labors equally, depending of victory tried for...if you have any suggestions for better balance here, speak up.

5) I think the above change to corps would make mercantilism and Free

Market viable civics again...Environmentalism too. Honestly, remove the food

bonus from SP or something...it needs to not be THE CIVIC. I understand this

is a Sid Meier game, but someone needs to tell him countries don't magically

become much more powerful by transferring ownership of property to the

State...despite what Marx would have you believe. (and even if it did, this is

a game, not a history simulator.)

6) My only suggestion as far as religion goes is to make it so Theocracy allows

the spread of non-state religions, but disallows temples and cathedrals of said

religions and cause +1:( per religion present. This allows for "religion

sabotage" to re-enter the game post-corps, but allows theocratic civs to pull

some benefit from non-state :religion:, e.g., the science and culture from

monastaries,and the ability to switch state religions/religion civics without

self-sabotage.

Comments? Criticism? Keep in mind these are just the musings of a Noble-level player who did little research for this post, and no number crunching whatsoever...but I pride myself on knowing SOMETHING about the game. Try not to flame if this was a bunch of n00bage.
 
What synergy does Vass have with Pacifism? One gives you free units and xp the other increases unit support costs. Someone ran an experiment to see what happens if you stay under the free unit cap--do those units not count for Pacifism? The answer: they always count. It's not really 100% free, it's more like, it's free but then Pacifism tacks on +1 upkeep to EVERYTHING.

Really? Then why the # of people running Vassalage/Pacifism?
 
OK, this lead me to something I have wondered. Pacifism costs 1gp for every military unit you have, correct. Vassalage adds more free units to the already free number. Say you get 20 units for free, and another 10 free with vassalage; your upkeep of 30 troops with organized religion is 0 gold. With pacificism you have to pay 30 gold for the 30 troops.

Now if you go 20 troops above the 30 free troop limit with OR you have to pay between 10-20 gold (not sure of the exact number) while with pacificism you have to pay 50 gp.

Am I inderstanding this correctly? The only use I ever found PAc for is siolated starts where I do not need many troops.
 
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