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Civics Discussion

Discussion in 'Civ4 Fallout: Tame The Waste (FTTW)' started by Lib.Spi't, Feb 11, 2015.

  1. Lib.Spi't

    Lib.Spi't Overlord of the Wasteland

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    Chosen One:
    This makes sense as the starter because you begin as 'the individual' to lead your people out of darkness. Having it from the start is good because it allows you to get a bit of a boost in the harsher environment compared to vanilla. The idea will be that once you get a few cities and they start to catch up to your capital, that is when the decision to change will become more pressing as you can start to get benefits to all cities not just one. I also want to add in buildings that will 'hurt' your other cities to boost your capital further, as well as some buildings that can relieve that strain if you put the effort into them. so if you have a great start position you could ride this all the way, but if some of your other settlements have some strong points the desire to change might become too great to maintain your imperious rule! Or... you might just need to move house!

    Strength:
    The idea behind the raw yield boost(though probably not commerce yield as that would be a bonus to the commerce types too) is that 1) People are naturally stronger in the strength society so thay can do more back breaking labour better. 2) They have a unique level of motivation to work longer hours, you that motivation to avoid being punched in the face.. It is also to give it a different 'personality' to the Military.

    Wealth:
    Having more gold and less hammers is not less productive, it is a different kind of productivity. With the Gold Rush ability it allows you to create a global pool of productivity, rather than localised productivity. It creates a more flexible industry, though perhaps at a cost of some effieciency. You can build a building anywhere at the same speed, whether a mega city or a tiny start house. It represeents the idea that in a Wealth society you can get anything you desire, so long as you can pay for it.

    Military
    The commerce buff is for a few reasons. 1) To give it a different 'personality' to Strength. 2)It is kind of reflecting the idea of a Military Industrial Complex. The interest to develop new weapons tech (Science), the Creation of a Military Intelligence, Secret Police (Espionage) and obviously having soldiers walking around everywhere with big guns will increase safety. The Unhappiness is then the reflection that this is not really for the benefit of society as a whole, only the military's needs.

    Democracy:
    My goal with this one is to make the idea of cooperation and freedom as a big motivating factor, but I also want it to cause a lot of minor dissatifaction with just about everything. So you will have to spend a lot of time pampering to your populace in order to keep them working at peak efficiency. So your population will be more productive, but much of that productivity has to be used to make them happy and healthy, rather than building factories and big guns for you to go and punch your neighbours and enemies!
     
  2. Lib.Spi't

    Lib.Spi't Overlord of the Wasteland

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    The other thing about motivation to change, is I want to link the various groups to each other, so certain combos get extra benefits and negatives, so with something like chosen one, you may change not for the benefits of another leadership type, but because that leadership works better with the choice you want in another group.
     
  3. Lib.Spi't

    Lib.Spi't Overlord of the Wasteland

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    So I have this idea for buildings under Chosen One.

    You would build a building in your Capital, like Central Food Management. This would produce a benefit from a resource called something like 'Chosen Oneness' You would get this resource by building other buildings in your other cities, that would have a negative effect on that city in exchange for producing the resource.

    Representing the idea of taking from the locals to bring to the Capital as an offering or some such.

    So do you think these buildings should be like:

    A) Corporations that compete for the same thing, so that you can only build one 'feeder' in each city. So you have to choose say a food one or an espionage one.

    B) Buildings that all use the same resource to gain the boost, so they all use 'Chosen Oneness'. So you would get more benefit for less negative impact.

    C) Buildings that each use their own kind of resource to gain a benefit meaning you have to build multiple kinds of buildings in your other cities to produce each kind of resource like 'Chosen Oneness Food', 'Chosen Oneness Hammer', etc.

    D) Work like a wonder that gives a free building to each city, so that for example you build a Grain Reserve in the capital and it gives every city a 'Grain Taxation' Building that gives the negative effects and resources. So basically a building that takes longer to set up in the Capital but instantly gains/gives the impact across all the cities regardless of size. So faster to make but you have no control over what cities it will effect.

    Thoughts and Comments?
     
  4. clanky4

    clanky4 Emperor

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    Seems kind of like a complicated way to achieve a simple goal. I think that a civic can set all cities to have plus or minus commerce and other outputs. That combined with the civic being able to set a plus or minus commerce and other outputs for the capital; would mean that you can set a malice for all cities but positive value to offset the malice for the capital.
     
  5. Lib.Spi't

    Lib.Spi't Overlord of the Wasteland

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    I already have that, this is about creating more player interaction and interesting things and choices for the civic.

    This way you actually get to craft your imperial regime and be involved in slowly dominating the lesser mortals that are your subjects!

    It allows for your ideological choices to change your world over a much longer period of time, rather than the 'instant shift' of vanilla. In Civ turns are measured in years and decades, so it makes sense. In FTTW turns are measured in weeks, so change would really occur over several hundred turns. In my (slightly fudgey) timeline, we go from 2150 (11 years before F1 Starts, which is actually a little late (In some cases the better part of 100 years too late) for the founding of some factions according to some of the timelines I have read) all the way to around the 2280s which is when NV starts. That means a game should actually last about 7100 turns (7124 to the start of F4 I think). With the first era 2150-2161 lasting about 570 turns.

    The idea with all this civic stuff is to allow you to craft a more in depth and personal society, with more demographic and individual effects, forging your own particular vision of a wasteland paradise. Watching how your choices and decisions play out in the long run. I also want to try and implement enough content so that you don't have the time to do everything, so you really have to choose what to focus on and see if it all works out ok. (Whether I will ever achieve that is debatable!)

    At the moment a civic trait level takes 30 turns to come into effect which is about 7 and a half months. I am debating about increasing that (if I can work out how, I think I can, I just haven't really looked yet!) possibly to 52 turns or beyond, making it a year or more.

    Then we can also have some player actions feed points into those civic traits, so they can make the lvl up come about faster.
     
  6. Lib.Spi't

    Lib.Spi't Overlord of the Wasteland

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    I also liked your idea about the Chosen One being a sort of Spiritual ideology, with the ability to set up your own church of the Chosen One. With the Super Mutants this would be the Cathedral so everyone could have something a bit different with a different flavour.
     
  7. Lib.Spi't

    Lib.Spi't Overlord of the Wasteland

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    Ok Chosen One now has five new buildings:

    Palace of the Chosen One
    Throne of the Chosen One (lvl 1)
    Statue of the Chosen One (lvl 1)
    Cathedral of the Chosen One (lvl 2)
    Church of the Chosen One (lvl 2)

    I am still trying to think of stats for the Palace, but the others are basically a Capital and City system. You build the Capital Version (Throne and Cath) which gives you a resource needed to build the city version (statue and Church). These 2 then give -5 and -10 yields to their city, but give you a resource that the Cap version uses to add +5 and +10 yields to the Capital.

    On a side note, I am also thinking of creating a Caravan style system using this same mechanic.

    So now with Chosen One you can become the deity of your own cult! (when you get the lvl 2 Trait and research Mass Religion)

    I am also thinking of adding 3 units so thoughts on their stats/uniqueness are welcome.

    At the moment I am thinking this:

    Palace Guard: (From Palace) Strong Melee City Defender tied to inside borders
    Chosen Warriors: (From Throne) Probably Strong Melee again..
    The Faithful: (From Cathedral or possibly Church) Medium/Weak Melee Unit that is very cheap, allowing you to spam a Faithful Horde to crush your enemies under a tide of bodies!
     
  8. clanky4

    clanky4 Emperor

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    Can't you make a building require the presence of another building so you don't have to deal with the mess of adding additional resources. Because they require using, eww, DXTBmp.

    Mmm, you could make the faithful have really low strength but a buff for attacking in certain terrain.
     
  9. Lib.Spi't

    Lib.Spi't Overlord of the Wasteland

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    Using a building doesn't have the same mechanical effect.

    With the resource system, you have to have your city connected to your capital to be able to build the building in the city, so it represents the need to solidify your hold from the Capital.

    Buildings can only effect other buildings locally.

    Yeah I am not worrying about adding new icons at the moment. The dreaded font file can torture me another day! (although at some point I will have to download the font file editor again, that tool makes it so much easier!)

    For the faithful I was actually thinking about a unique set of promotions, that can turn them into suicide squads.
     
  10. Lib.Spi't

    Lib.Spi't Overlord of the Wasteland

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    Clanky, would you be interested in trying your hand at some unit art for these guys?

    I am thinking they will all be Melee Units, to better show their love for the Chosen One through daring do! (Eventually when the first round of civics is done I might make upgrade variants for them.. dunno.. anyway)

    If you are interested, here were my thoughts about them.

    Palace Guard: I was thinking maybe look at a spear and shield combo(maybe a greek/spartan hoplite big round shield), maybe find a unit with a fancy looking shield that could be put on a more apocalyptic body, so that they look like somthing out of a classical palace guard scene, but with an apocalyptic twist. Maybe even a cloak if it were doable..

    Chosen Warriors: Same look as the Palace Guard, but maybe instead of a spear they could have an axe or a sword to make them look more aggressive than defensive..

    Chosen Faithful: Maybe something with a mask, or a desert style face wrap, symbolising their surrender of identity as extensions of their god emperor.

    Anyway, let me know if it is a challenge that would interest you or not.
     
  11. Lib.Spi't

    Lib.Spi't Overlord of the Wasteland

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    Ok....

    I think the first version of Chosen One is complete!

    Except for fixing any graphics needs.
     
  12. Lib.Spi't

    Lib.Spi't Overlord of the Wasteland

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    Ugh I hate it when unit art doesn't have the animations included...

    Steam civ has all of the art packed so I need to get an unpacker to get the necessary animations to make the stand in art I found work... Ugh!

    UGH!!!! :gripe:

    Ok... added three placeholder arts for the CO Units!

    Used a Spartan model with gold armour and a cape and a round shield for the Guard and Warrior and a grenadier ancient spy model for the Faithful.
     
  13. clanky4

    clanky4 Emperor

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    Link to video.

    The steam version doesn't even come with the Uncompilled DLL files. It took me a really long time to figure out, and find the proper forum post explaining, that that was the reason my DLL wasn't compiling.

    You don't need actual access to a units kfm, or even the unit nif itself, if it is in the base game though. Just reference it in the art define as usual.
     
  14. Lib.Spi't

    Lib.Spi't Overlord of the Wasteland

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    yeah but you have to know the reference to reference it :)

    I've copied them across now that I have found them.
     

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