Civics: need modification?

[Vietcong]

OK, I have been looking over all the bonuses and penalties, and have decided to make the following modifications. What do people think, will this be more balanced?

Dictatorship
tech: writing
cost: low

Bonuses
+20 percent military production
+10 percent free military unit upkeep population percentage 
+10 percent hammers
-20 percent war weariness
specialists +3 gold
-10 percent city number cost
Workshops +1 Hammer
Farms +1 Food

Penalties
-2 happiness in largest cities
+10 percent city distance cost
-2 health in every city
-20 percent worker speed
specialists -1 research

Oligarchy
Tech: Priesthood
Cost: Medium

Bonusues 
+10 percent military unit production
+5 percent free military unit upkeep population percentage
draft 1 units per turn
-10 percent war weariness
+1 trade route
+10 percent food in every city
specialists +1 gold
specialists +2 culture
plantations +1 commerce
villages +1 hammer

Penalties
+10 City Number Cost
-10 percent Gold Commerce in every city
-1 Health in every City
-10 percent Worker speed

Monarchy
Tech: Monarchy
Cost: low

Bonuses
+10 percent great people points
+10 percent free military unit upkeep population percentage
draft 1 unit
+1 happiness in largest cities
-10 percent war weariness
+1 trade route
+10 percent commerce in every city
specialists +3 culture
Pastures +1 food
Winery +1 commerce


Penalties
+10 percent City Number Cost
+1 Gold per Military Unit
+10 percent City Distance Cost

Republic
Tech: Constitution
Cost: Medium

Bonuses
+10 percent great people points
-10 percent city number cost
+1 health in every city
+20 percent worker speed
+10 percent military production
+2 happiness in largest cities
+2 trade routes
+10 percent hammers in every city
specialists +3 gold
can gold rush
quarries +1 hammer
towns +1 commerce

Penalties
+10 percent city distance cost
+1 gold per military unit

Police State
Tech: Fascism
Costs: High

Bonuses
-10 percent city distance cost
+30 percent military production
+20 percent free military unit upkeep population percentage
draft 2 units per turn
-2 percent war weariness
+5 percent food in every city
+10 percent hammers in every city
specialists +3 research
mines +1 hammer
plantation +1 food

Penalties
+10 percent city number cost
-3 health in every city
-10 percent worker speed
-1 happiness in largest cities
-1 trade route
-10 percent commerce in every city
specialists -2 culture

Parlimentary Democracy
Tech: Democracy
Cost: High

Bonuses
+20 percent great people points
-10 percent city distance cost
+2 health in every city
+20 worker speed
+10 percent cottages to towns growth rate
+2 trade routes
+10 percent food in every city
specialists +3 research
can gold rush
farms +1 commerce
towns +1 food

Penalties
+10 percent city number cost
-10 percent free military unit upkeep population percentage
+1 gold per military unit
+10 percent war weariness

I should point out that the major factors that would impact on the decision to go monarchy, oligarchy or dictatorship will be war/peace status; Number of cities vs. distance between the capital and provinces, the importance of science over culture/gold and the size of your treasury-as oligarchy as more expensive to maintain than either dictatorship or monarchy.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

y whold being under a police state result in ppl being less healthy.. forget balanceing, and make it realistic.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Its not making them literally 'less healthy'. Its just that a combination of fear, disappearances and people trying to flee the regime would have the effect of reducing the nations full growth capacity. Of course, if the nation has access to abundant food, then this won't matter so much.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[ToV]

You seem to have a done a reasonable job. However, there are a fer things I want to question. First, I do not think we need than many new civics. For example: In reality, what is the difference between a dictatorship and despotism? Not much. There is some, but not enough to justify having each their own civic.

I did like korn469 example, although that needs work as well.

Finally, on the question of Merchantism, I believe thay Fraxis was inspired by the one in Japan several hundred years ago, where the total of all foreign trade allowed was i Dutch ship per year. That was it. Also, in European contries, they had something simillar. They did not trade with their rivals, but instead set up colonies so they could get what they need themselves.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

On further reflection, I have actually decided to retain the 'No Foreign Trade' penalty for Mercantilism, but give a reduction in distance maintainance costs for cities-which I think belongs here FAR more than with the State-Property civic (I mean, COME ONE, the Soviet Union wasn't the only communist country, yet they use their 'empire-building' tendancies as the basis of Communist Economics!!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[ToV]

On further reflection, I have actually decided to retain the 'No Foreign Trade' penalty for Mercantilism, but give a reduction in distance maintainance costs for cities-which I think belongs here FAR more than with the State-Property civic (I mean, COME ONE, the Soviet Union wasn't the only communist country, yet they use their 'empire-building' tendancies as the basis of Communist Economics!!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

That does sound a bit more realistic, seeing as civs Mercantilism would be encouraged to have lots of colonies in real life. I do want to point out though that, unless I am mistaken, Mercantilism still allows trading of resources, techs, ext. If I am wrong about this, please let me know.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

It does, ToV, the foreign trade routes effected are merely those that automatically form between connected cities. Given that my economics civics all give yield bonuses for trade routes, then it means that the only things which a Mercantilist civ can trade with other civs are raw resources and techs.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Hi again guys. Well, slowly but surely I move forward in my quest to totally overhaul the civics system. I should point out that-at this point-I have discovered a problem with # of cities maintainance. Namely there seems only two settings-either you pay maintainance or you don't. I plan to look more deeply into this. In the meantime, though, here is the most recent update to the mod-with economics changes included. Please enjoy, and feel free to post your views on it here for my consideration .

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[TheJopa]

I found that out too. Whatever you put, it says "No maintenance cost from number of cities". Probably bug, because that line is interger value and not binar.

 

[JBG]

How do you allow civics to modify culture rates?

I've got a number of questions like that - do you need to edit in python or something?

 

[RED DIAMOND]

If you are talking about the % up/down buttons that it tied to the drama tech? I think. You could change the tie in. It might be easier to describe exactly what you want to do/change because there are many ways to skin that cat in this game.

 

[JBG]

I basically want to add (as part of the 'colonisation of the moon' mod btw) some government civics. Among these, Facism and Communism both lower the net culture output of cities (by 10% and 15% respectively), and in another variety of civics, the Social Engineering civic lowers net culture output while the Free Speech civic doubles the culture output of cities.

This is to try and represent the relative oppression of fascist states against creative artists and their attempts to impose imitation popular works (like the Nazi propaganda fairy tales). The culture bonus under free speech is the diametric opposite: it represents the creative freedom enjoyed by the populace and the resulting diversity of new creative works.

Just a simple modifier to change the net culture output of cities in much the same manner as the commerce/production/food variable.

The option to tie culture to trade routes would be good too but it might be asking too much.

Essentially I want to know how easy it is to add variables to an XML file in a way the game will understand.

 

[RED DIAMOND]

I basically want to add (as part of the 'colonisation of the moon' mod btw) some government civics. Among these, Facism and Communism both lower the net culture output of cities (by 10% and 15% respectively), and in another variety of civics, the Social Engineering civic lowers net culture output while the Free Speech civic doubles the culture output of cities.

This is to try and represent the relative oppression of fascist states against creative artists and their attempts to impose imitation popular works (like the Nazi propaganda fairy tales). The culture bonus under free speech is the diametric opposite: it represents the creative freedom enjoyed by the populace and the resulting diversity of new creative works.

Just a simple modifier to change the net culture output of cities in much the same manner as the commerce/production/food variable.

The option to tie culture to trade routes would be good too but it might be asking too much.

Essentially I want to know how easy it is to add variables to an XML file in a way the game will understand.

VERY EASY! this is the block I use in one of my civics that increases gold, science and culture by 5% in all cities.
<CommerceModifiers>
<iCommerce>5</iCommerce>
<iCommerce>5</iCommerce>
<iCommerce>5</iCommerce>
</CommerceModifiers>

To get the opposite you just make it neg -5

 

[JBG]

So which one deals with culture (I know these things go in order)? And does this need any additional programming?

Thanks for your swift response, btw.

 

[Holistic]

Doesn't "culture" in-game to some extent model propaganda?

 

[JBG]

@Holistic: Yes. In a word!

@Red Diamond: Which of the three variables controls culture? And does it need any additional programming?

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

@JBG. The order of the commerce settings is Gold, then Science, then Culture. So it is the bottom one you have to modify in the XML file-and NO you don't need to make any other programming changes, just alter the setting in CivicsInfo.xml and you're all done . Note, however, that even if you are only changing the one setting, you have to always include ALL THREE commerce settings (or you get a parsing error!)-just leave the other two at zero. Hope this helps.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[RED DIAMOND]

@JBG. The order of the commerce settings is Gold, then Science, then Culture. So it is the bottom one you have to modify in the XML file-and NO you don't need to make any other programming changes, just alter the setting in CivicsInfo.xml and you're all done . Note, however, that even if you are only changing the one setting, you have to always include ALL THREE commerce settings (or you get a parsing error!)-just leave the other two at zero. Hope this helps.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

Thx, was out most of the day and playing civ. Aussie is 100% correct as usual. JBG can't wait for the moon mod

 

[JBG]

Thanks guys.

We ought to have an alpha version soon.

 

[ToV]

Aussie_Lurker, could you please specify what changes you made in this newest mod? I would appreciate it.

But anyway, I had an idea of a knew economic civic: mixed economy. This is an economy that is regulated by the government, but at the same time tries to promote free markets. The US has something like this, and quite a few European nations have more socialistic versions. It would have medium upkeep (Think America's giant debt), and would combine some elements of the Free Market and State Property Civic. Example:

+ 1 trade route
1 free specialist
Some other bonus or penalty

Also, I have some changes to the State Propety and Free Market.

State Property would have 1 free specilist (instead of no maintenance) and a small to medium production penalty (because workers have no incentive to work hard)

Free Markets would give +2 trade roughts and a health penalty (because pure capatilists don't give a (explitive deleted) about the environment)

I hope you can incorperate this into a mod. I will try to come up with one more for the other catagories, as well, but do not count on anything comming soon.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Well, the one I hope to post tonight contains the addition of a new civic category-namely organisation. Now your city culture, production and maintainance will be in part dictated by whether or not you are a nationalist, a federalist, a devolutionist, an imperialist or Hegemonic style of ruler. The only problem is that I am getting an XML error when I load the mod, even though it works fine .
Next on the agenda are Rights and Legal civics.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.