Civics: need modification?

[Aussie_Lurker]

Hiya guys,

Well I have the latest update to my civics mod. I have added the Organisation civic category and totally altered the Legal civics. Please note, when you load the mod you will get an error message, but you will still be able to play the game (in fact, if anyone can tell me the source of the error, please tell me ).
Anyway, as always, please try it out and tell me what you think of it. Its still pretty rough, but I hope to clean it up prior to adding the Python elements to my mod.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[ToV]

I think I can see the problem. (Or not. I'm not an expert.) When I try to open up the XML from my computer, it gives an error measage:

"Cannot view XML input using XSL style sheet."

I have no idea what this means.

Edit: Now that I think about it, this seems to be more of a symtom then the problem.

In the mean time, could you please post exactly what changes you made so I can comment on them. I want to see what you came up with.

 

[Tahuti]

Xsl has to do with an Microsoft Excel database, yet I dont see the relation between XSL databases and XML.

 

[RED DIAMOND]

Hiya guys,

Well I have the latest update to my civics mod. I have added the Organisation civic category and totally altered the Legal civics. Please note, when you load the mod you will get an error message, but you will still be able to play the game (in fact, if anyone can tell me the source of the error, please tell me ).
Anyway, as always, please try it out and tell me what you think of it. Its still pretty rough, but I hope to clean it up prior to adding the Python elements to my mod.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

I really appreciate the fact that you are working on civics as it has given me many ideas to make my games better.

I also appreciate the sharing of the expanded civics screen. This will allow me to expand my civcs from the current 45 to 66. This gives me much more room to provide more social engineering options. Based on my tests so far with my 45 civics, that AI really responds to choices given based on their personality. GREAT STUFF.

BTW, I'll be checking out your civics for more ideas

 

[RED DIAMOND]

One other thing Aussie. There is no readme file, it is needed to outline what you have changed IMHO. In addition, you need to explain what the .py are for and what they change. It looks like the inquisitor and some culture alteration stuff is in there along with building file etc... This is why I think you need a readme file. The only thing I am using from your mod now is the Civics screen.py file. Why? Because I am not sure what else is going on in your mod, bro

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Sorry about that RED. Most of the reason why I haven't done a readme yet is because the whole thing is in a state of flux (I mean, technically this is barely an alpha version of my mod ). Once I have finished the XML component of the Civics mod, I do plan to write out an extensive readme of the changes made. It is odd that there are any cultural alterations in my mod. I did use the Python Scripts from Mylons Mod, but deleted all the the stuff which was secondary to my mod. That said, when it I have finished modifying the Civics, I will be relying heavily on stuff by TheLopez, Mylon and Snaitf.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[ToV]

I tried to load your mod. However, I saw no change. Could you please list exaxtly what changes you made on this web site so I can coment on them. I want to hear your ideas.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

OK, most recent changes to my mod (31/01/06) are as follows:

New Civic Option: Organization. Denotes the way in which the government is structured. The choices are-
(a) Village: Default, no net difference.
(b) City State: Available with Polytheism. Each city pretty much runs its own affairs. Reduced City maintainance costs, draft 1 unit per turn, but reduced culture per city (as the cities don't see themselves as part of a contiguous nation-state).
(c) Hegemonic: Available with Code of Laws?? Quasi-federal system, where some cities (like the Capital) are more equal than others. Bonus to yields and commerce in the Capital, but penalties in non-capital cities.
(d) Imperial: Available with Monarchy. Your nation subjugates all the lands around, usually dominated from the Capital. Bonus to Distance maintanance costs and culture, but reduced happiness in largest cities (which chafe under the imperial yoke).
(e) Nation-State: Available with Nationalism. All cities within your borders both recognise their national identity and are proud of it. Bonus culture in all cities and reduced war weariness (IIRC). Penalty to city maintainance.
(f) Federal: Like the nation-state, but more regionalised in nature. Can't recall what it does off the top of my head.
(g) Devolved: Federal plus. Each region within your nation has almost total autonomy, which is obviously a bonus for larger nations. Benefits are, I think, happiness and reduced distance maintainance, but with a penalty to war weariness (nobody likes being forced to fight by the central government).

The other changes were in the legal civics, which now consist of:
(a) Tribal Law-default
(b) Martial Law-improved war weariness and bonus happiness from military units
(c) Ecclesiastical Law-laws drafting along religious lines, good for keeping people in line in cities with the state religion, but bad for science and multi-religion cities
(d) Beureacracy-laws are designed to make it easier to keep track of the minutiae of day-to-day life. Improved city yields, but causes unhappiness due to delays in getting what you want, when you want it
(e) Constitutional Law-laws aimed at strictly defining the rights and responsibilities of the people and their rulers. Culture and drafting bonus
(f) Jurisprudence-a legal system with established precedents and usually based on trial by jury. Bonus happiness from courtrooms
(g) International Law-laws designed to be harmonised with those of neighbouring nations-usually taking the best of all worlds. Seeks to protect the legal rights of all citizens within your borders, regardless of their nationality.

Anyway, thats pretty rough, but I hope that is what you had in mind.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[Armandeus]

I should point out that-at this point-I have discovered a problem with # of cities maintainance. Namely there seems only two settings-either you pay maintainance or you don't.

Look in GameInfo.xml. You will see iNumCitiesMaintenancePercent.

The default value depends on the world size.

Notice that the highest it is set is at 45. If you set it to 50 in your civic, have a look, and then to 100, you will see "no maintenance cost for number of cities" both times and come to the conclusion that you did.

Try setting it to 5 or 10 and see what happens. I haven't tried it myself, but maybe then you will get the result you want.

 

[Kidinnu]

Xsl has to do with an Microsoft Excel database, yet I dont see the relation between XSL databases and XML.

Umm, no.

(1) Excel is .XLS
(2) Excel has nothing to do with databases
(3) XSL is Extensible Stylesheet Language, which tells a browser how to display an XML file.

So when you try to open it, and Internet Explorer intercepts it, IE complains that it doesn't know how to draw it.

Much more useful is to just open it in wordpad or notepad, which doesn't require the XSL and allows you to use it.

 

[RED DIAMOND]

Here is my latest version of civics. Thx to Aussie and all you guys here The idea being multiple choices for designing your civ. Oh boy the AI's are having a blast. They all seem VERY indivdual now

 

[Optimizer]

Oh my, so many options!

I will try the zero-sum challenge, and keep to 5*5 civics, while keeping maximum diversity.

 

[ToV]

RED DIAMOND, I like some of your ideas, but that is too many options. Try to narrow it down. For startetrs, remember that the economic icvic is NOT how the economy runs. Is is how the government AFFECTS the economy. So Barter does not fit. Also, a religious state and a theocracy are the same thing, so there is no reason to have both. (There are other examples, but I will not get into details) Finally, socilized economy sounds too much like communism. Try renaming it mixed economy or regulated economy. If you can narrow it down a bit, your list should be fine.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Ahhh, but ToV, even I have Barter as an economic option. I feel it is perfectly justified because the government may in fact desire and/or legislate for a barter economy-especially before the age of hard currency. In my system, though, barter influences what yields trade generates (e.g. barter delivers less hard cash and more goods, wheras cash economy has a greater cash and non-food goods component.)

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[RED DIAMOND]

Oh no guys don't get me wrong, this is no "public" mod per se. No way in the world would I even remotely attempt to please this crowd

This is just showing my personal mod of how many civics can be added. In addition, I did this primarily for play vs a large number 8plus of AI's. They really like the larger number of civics choices. I might add my AI's have 3 traits and some other little things that make them more individual.

The basic concept holds true. The diverse AI personalities make some very individual and diverse civics choices throught the game. It really adds depth that would really have to be seen to totally appreciate how well it all works, but trust me it works It turns out to be a perfect amount to allow "several" choices to socially design your civ.

 

[Brancaleone]

Aussie Lurker, i love your mod.

Im learning XML, messing with the files and stuff. Ill make my own Civic mod, based on this thread and many history books lying in front of me right now . Ill try to give only 'bonuses', nothing 'negative' for each civic (except a few, like trade penalties for communism or WW for free speech), since im using 9 "castes" of civic (like Economy, Government, etc.. sorry for my english), with 5 to 9 options under each "caste", and no more than 2 bonuses for each civic. It will take a month, probably, since im kinda of busy in the next two weeks.

As ToV said, i will try to stop nonsense choices like Religious State (government) + Teocracy (religion). Once i get home, ill post the list of civics here.

I remember the civic castes are: Head of State, Government, Economy, Society, Religion, Ideology, Legal, Military and Gender Role (yea, alot i took from this thread ). I tried to use your idea of "Organization" civics, but there would be too much repeated civics (Feudalism with Serfdoom with Manorial for example...), so i removed the organization civics. Yep, theres still alot, but each one will have small bonuses (there wont be a game-changing civic like that one with +100% clture) and very few civics will have negative aspects. Additionally, im trying to name all civics with small names (like, 'Militar' instead of 'Military Tradition', so the civic table dont screw up).

Wish me luck And dont stop updating yours!

 

[ToV]

Aussie_Lurker , I rather like your use of the oganization catigory. It just makes sense. I do not see any problem with it, although I might change the names a bit. Examples:
Beureacracy-laws sounds better as Beureacracy
Your discription of Constitutional Law sounds like Nationhood (or whatever its called)
Jurisprudence is a bit of a mouth full.

And two final questions:
1) What tech requirements and upkeep do you think your new civics should have?
2) Where will you fit in free speech?

 

[gianluca790]

[ (Of course this means free speech in a _political_ context. A democracy might still censor sex, violence and certain commercial messages.)[/QUOTE]

That is what the current controversies over free speech are about - the need to protect public decency balanced against the need to talk about certain issues, such as sexual freedom and how to protect against diseases.

 

[ToV]

I have a list of some choises, based on the ideas of Armandeus and Aussie Lurker, as well as my own.

New Civic Ideas

Government:
Deposition
Low Upkeep

Hereditary Rule
Monarchy
Medium Upkeep
+1 happiness per military unit in city

Representation
Constitution
Low Upkeep
+3 science per specialist
+3 happiness in 5 largest cities

Universal Suffrage
Democracy
Medium Upkeep
+1 hammers and commerce from towns
May spend gold to finish production

Police State
Fascism
High Upkeep
+25% military unit production
-50% war wariness

Organization:
Village
Low Upkeep

City State
Polytheism
(?) Upkeep.
-25% city maintainance costs,
draft 1 unit per turn,
- (?)% culture per city

Imperial
Monarchy
(?) Upkeep
- (?)% distance maintanance costs
+ (?)% culture
- 2 happiness in largest 5 cities

Federal
(?)
(?)Upkeep

Devolved
(?)
(?) upkeep
+ 2 happiness
- 50% distance maintainance
+ 25% war weariness

Legal:
Barbarianism
Low Upkeep
- 1 happiness

Vassalage
Feudalism
High Upkeep
New units given +2 experience
Lower unit support costs


Nationhood
Nationalism
Low Upkeep
Can draft 3 unit per turn
+ 2 happiness from barracks

Bureaucracy
Civil Service
Medium Upkeep
+50% hammers in capital
+50% commerce in capital
+15% increase in city maintenance

Freedom of Speech
Liberalism
Low Upkeep
+100% culture
+ 50% Great People birth rate
+ 25% war wariness

Labor
Tribalism
Low Upkeep

Slavery
Bronze Working
Low Upkeep
Can sacrifice population to rush production
+1 hammer for quarries
+2 commerce for plantations

Serfdom
Feudalism
Low Upkeep
Works build improvements 50% faster

Caste System
Code of Law
Medium Upkeep
Unlimited artists, scientists, and merchants in cities

Emancipation
Democracy
No Upkeep
Doubles growth of Cottages, Hamlets, and Villages
Gives Civs Without Emancipation unhappiness

Economy
Decentralization
Low Upkeep

Mercantilism
Banking
Medium Upkeep
No foreign trade routes
No distance maintenance

Free Market
Economics
Low Upkeep
+2 trade route per city
Factories –2 health

State Property
Communism
Low Upkeep
+1 food from watermills, workshops
+1 free specialists per city
- 10% production

Environmentalism
Ecology
Medium Upkeep
+5 health in all cities
Recycling Plant increases production +10%
+1 happiness per extra health

Religion
Paganism
Low Upkeep

Organized Religion
Monotheism
High Upkeep
Can build missionaries without a monastery
Cities with State Religion construct buildings +25% faster

Theocracy
Theology
Medium Upkeep
Halts the spread of non-state religions
+2 exp in cities with state religion
+10% military production in cities with state religion
-10% science

Pacifism
Philosophy
Low Upkeep
Doubles Great People birth rate in your cities with state religion
+1 gold per military unit
+ 100% war wariness

Freedom of Religion
Liberalism
Low Upkeep
No state religion
+1 happiness for every non-state religion in a city
+10% science
+10% culture

Credit goes to Armandeus and Aussie Lurker for their many ideas.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Well, you guys might be interested to know that I am almost finished the XML component of my Civics mod. I did all of the religious civics last night, but it is still giving me trouble! Perhaps someone out there can help. I have some civics which, when in effect, are supposed to cause unhappiness on the basis of how many religions are in the city. Instead it is saying on the civics screen that it gives a +120468956 (or some such) per religion. I should point out, though, that the unhappiness for multiple religions has worked fine in other civic categories, just not in the Religious Civics.
Also, does anyone know how to reduce the font of the writing in the civics screen? I have tried altering almost the entire CvCivics.py file, but without effect on the writing.
Anyway, if people could give me advice on these matters, I will appreciate it-and hopefully I should have the 'finished' product for you by sometime tomorrow .

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.