Dubmetender
Dub's the way of the life
ToV said:
Civics: need modification?
- Thread starter Colonel Kraken
- Start date
The USSR aslo ran a police state. The ideologies of state propery and police state are mutually exclusive.
I would have to disagree. The woman working work not unhappy, many actually prided themselves with what thier work. They saw it as a means helping their loved ones.
Also, the corporation does not neccisarily "Buy their workers happiness". If anything, they pay their workers as little as possible. The corporation sees such things as "living wages" and "benifits" as needless expenses, which must be done away with. And for the upkeep, just add more negative stuff, like extra unhealthyness (polution).
Dubmetender
Dub's the way of the life
thanks Tov, i didn't think about polution for syndicate, good, good...
i think the different apreciation of syndicate or corporation between you and me, is cultural... i'm french, and in France we have a "syndicate culture".
We have a lot of public agent who go in the street each time someone want to change something, is the reason why i made the war weariness for syndicate...
i'm sorry for my basic english, and hope you understand what i mean...
i think the different apreciation of syndicate or corporation between you and me, is cultural... i'm french, and in France we have a "syndicate culture".
We have a lot of public agent who go in the street each time someone want to change something, is the reason why i made the war weariness for syndicate...
i'm sorry for my basic english, and hope you understand what i mean...
Holistic
wrapped in plastic
ToV, I was probably (yet again) quite unclear; already a penalty of two trade routes is quite severe, but not impossible to compensate. The extra hammer yield from trade was a suggestion for further compensation for the penalty. Without the distance maintenance, planned economy looks quite... unimpressing. Here's an alternative;
Planned
Medium upkeep: Central planning requires a lot of... planning work correctly
+1 Free Specialist: Investments can be directed to specific ends
+1 Food from watermills, workshops: As above - bonus food makes it easier to support working watermills and workshops, and makes this an indirect hammer-bonus
+34% Hammers trade yield: As above - think of this as production in other cities "synchronizing" with the receiving city.
-50% Commerce trade yield: Supply and demand are hard to balance properly, also see below
-2 Trade Routes: Individual initiatives are not encouraged
Another option for a "procon" would be for the cottage-line of improvements yield one less food and one bonus hammer -- an indirect commerce-penalty, of sorts.
Regarding the Meet the Corporation-article, I've read it before, ToV (at least it seemed somewhat familiar -- might've been a Swedish translation I read). The only "problem" I have with calling the civic Corporatism is the Fascist implication. Oligopoly might be a slightly less "charged" word (but then again, quite misleading).
It feels sort of... dishonest to only "critique" others' civics settings, so here are couple of ideas I have for my "own" system. The categories would be (approximately); Government, Organization, Labor, Economy, Authority and Military. The basic system would be something like:
The reason why there's no religion-category is that I'd want it to be replaced by having civics choices give special bonuses or penalties depending on whether a State Religion is selected or not. This might be doable in python, though. I'd probably sooner split the Economy-category into "Market Regulation" and "Legal Tender" than have a separate Religion-category. Authority is in the Religion-slot for the extra-expensive upkeeps.
Oh, this might be somewhat useful information for civics-modders; extra civics categories have the same upkeep costs as the Government-civics. That is, if a government civic with "low" upkeep costs 6 gpt, a religion civic with "low" upkeep costs 12 gpt, the custom category civic with "low" upkeep will cost 6 gpt. This might be determined by another XML-file than CivicOptionInfos, though.
The system "might" be too simplistic though, and could/should probably be "fleshed out" to at least two different "versions" each. The "Charismatic"-civic could make for an interesting civic, if it somehow could be modded to only last for a specific number of turns before the government collapses into the earlier (or simply another) form. Perhaps it could even only be activated by Great People, in which case it needn't be a civic of its own, but simply an "amplification" of the current Authority-civic or one tied to the type of Great Person.
I'd also like to replace the "Emancipation"-unhappiness with a "Liberty"-rating for each civic. Net negative liberty changes in civics would cause a temporary unhappiness when revolting and/or increase revolution length. Positive changes would do the opposite, so that switching, for example, from Barbarism, Slavery and Theocracy to Free Speech, Emancipation and Free Religion might have no Anarchy. The amount of unhappiness from having less "liberty" than other civs would depend on mostly on what the actual difference in liberty is, so that running a Slavery-like civic (with a very low liberty-cost) in the "BC":s would not cause unhappiness from lack of liberty.
The government and organization-categories would have to in some way model how (or if) power is delegated. I'm not quite sure how to do that. Is it upkeep costs or distance maintenance that should be affected? Something altogether different? Both? Nothing?
Planned
Medium upkeep: Central planning requires a lot of... planning work correctly
+1 Free Specialist: Investments can be directed to specific ends
+1 Food from watermills, workshops: As above - bonus food makes it easier to support working watermills and workshops, and makes this an indirect hammer-bonus
+34% Hammers trade yield: As above - think of this as production in other cities "synchronizing" with the receiving city.
-50% Commerce trade yield: Supply and demand are hard to balance properly, also see below
-2 Trade Routes: Individual initiatives are not encouraged
Another option for a "procon" would be for the cottage-line of improvements yield one less food and one bonus hammer -- an indirect commerce-penalty, of sorts.
Regarding the Meet the Corporation-article, I've read it before, ToV (at least it seemed somewhat familiar -- might've been a Swedish translation I read). The only "problem" I have with calling the civic Corporatism is the Fascist implication. Oligopoly might be a slightly less "charged" word (but then again, quite misleading).
It feels sort of... dishonest to only "critique" others' civics settings, so here are couple of ideas I have for my "own" system. The categories would be (approximately); Government, Organization, Labor, Economy, Authority and Military. The basic system would be something like:
- Government
Autocracy
Oligarchy
Democracy
- Organization
Unitary State
Federation
Confederation
- Economy
Command
Mixed
Free Market
- Labor
Unfree
Free
- Authority
Tradition
Charismatic
Legal-Rational
- Military
Mercenary
Conscripted
Professional
The reason why there's no religion-category is that I'd want it to be replaced by having civics choices give special bonuses or penalties depending on whether a State Religion is selected or not. This might be doable in python, though. I'd probably sooner split the Economy-category into "Market Regulation" and "Legal Tender" than have a separate Religion-category. Authority is in the Religion-slot for the extra-expensive upkeeps.
Oh, this might be somewhat useful information for civics-modders; extra civics categories have the same upkeep costs as the Government-civics. That is, if a government civic with "low" upkeep costs 6 gpt, a religion civic with "low" upkeep costs 12 gpt, the custom category civic with "low" upkeep will cost 6 gpt. This might be determined by another XML-file than CivicOptionInfos, though.
The system "might" be too simplistic though, and could/should probably be "fleshed out" to at least two different "versions" each. The "Charismatic"-civic could make for an interesting civic, if it somehow could be modded to only last for a specific number of turns before the government collapses into the earlier (or simply another) form. Perhaps it could even only be activated by Great People, in which case it needn't be a civic of its own, but simply an "amplification" of the current Authority-civic or one tied to the type of Great Person.
I'd also like to replace the "Emancipation"-unhappiness with a "Liberty"-rating for each civic. Net negative liberty changes in civics would cause a temporary unhappiness when revolting and/or increase revolution length. Positive changes would do the opposite, so that switching, for example, from Barbarism, Slavery and Theocracy to Free Speech, Emancipation and Free Religion might have no Anarchy. The amount of unhappiness from having less "liberty" than other civs would depend on mostly on what the actual difference in liberty is, so that running a Slavery-like civic (with a very low liberty-cost) in the "BC":s would not cause unhappiness from lack of liberty.
The government and organization-categories would have to in some way model how (or if) power is delegated. I'm not quite sure how to do that. Is it upkeep costs or distance maintenance that should be affected? Something altogether different? Both? Nothing?
ToV, I was probably (yet again) quite unclear; already a penalty of two trade routes is quite severe, but not impossible to compensate. The extra hammer yield from trade was a suggestion for further compensation for the penalty. Without the distance maintenance, planned economy looks quite... unimpressing. Here's an alternative;
Wow. Thank's for the imput.
You're bringing possitive feedback, and that's a good thing.
That is a very interesting and prommising idea. Tell us if you make any progress, I would like to hear it.
Holistic
wrapped in plastic
Well, it's just an idea at the moment and will probably remain so for a longish while -- for my part, at any rate; I still haven't even tried to understand (let alone use) python (which is probably what a "Liberties"-system would require).
One thing that does not make sense is Caste System allowing unlimited specialists of certain kinds. Isn't a caste system a society where only a limited few have the opportunity to qualified professions?
I have removed the caste system, and split the Emancipation into two new civics, called Labor Market and Social Security.
Together these labor civics would approximately represent the Marxian modes of production - collectivism, slavery, feudalism, capitalism and socialism.
I have removed the caste system, and split the Emancipation into two new civics, called Labor Market and Social Security.
Together these labor civics would approximately represent the Marxian modes of production - collectivism, slavery, feudalism, capitalism and socialism.
But who decides which castes perform what tasks? The people who implemented the caste system, i.e. the player.Optimizer said:
Anyway, these are some new civics I've thought up:
Government: Oligarchy (could use a better name, all the other government civics have more descriptive names like "Hereditary Rule" instead of "Monarchy")
Medium Upkeep
Requires Code of Laws
+50% food and +50% commerce in capital
Legal: Thought Control
High Upkeep
Requires Genetics (I'm not thrilled about this tech, it's not very attainable. I just can't think what else might be used)
+2 experience
+1 happy per military unit
-50% war weariness
Labor: Cybernetic
Medium Upkeep
Requires Robotics (see Thought Control, although I feel that Cybernetic should be made more powerful rather than be avaliable earlier)
No unhealthiness due to population
I wanted to include Eudaimonia to round out the Alpha Centauri future societies, but I couldn't find a good place for it either on the tech tree or the civics menu. For economics I added a varient of ToV's Corporatism.
Religion: Atheist State
Medium Upkeep
Requires Scientific Method
No state religion
No non-state religion spread
+1 unhappiness per non-state religion in a city
+100% science
What do you think?
Dryhad, your civics sound very Sci-Fi, and an interesting alternative from what has already been discusses.
For Oligarchy, why the +50% capital food yeilds? Could you explain whet you mean by Oligarchy? That way, we can not only understand why you put that there, but could see if we could come up with a better name, if any exist.
For Oligarchy, why the +50% capital food yeilds? Could you explain whet you mean by Oligarchy? That way, we can not only understand why you put that there, but could see if we could come up with a better name, if any exist.
An Oligarchy is a government ruled by a small council. From Greek meaning "chief by a few". I was mostly inspired by Bureaucracy, as the concepts are similar, but I wanted to make it different so I changed the production increase to a food increase.ToV said:
Social security does not necessarily need to be a government program. In many European countries, a great deal of social security consists of agreements between labour (excuse me for my inconsequent blending of British and American spelling) organizations and enterprise organizations.ToV said:
As a game term, Social security would represent much more than a government program, but also workers' right to education, safety, health and organization.
The original setup of labor civics lacks in realism, because it assumes that the only important historical developments in workers' rights were the abolition of slavery, serfdom and castes. I would say that the rights, liberties and opportunities gained by the working class of the western world from the 1870s to present day were far greater, and should be represented as one of five levels.
OK, I will consider that name.
When it comes to infinite numbers of specialists, I think it should not be connected to caste systems at all.
One idea is allowing infinite merchants with Mercantilism, since the government in such states allows any number of merchants to remain in business, though not profitable. Infinite scientists and artists would be allowed by Free Speech.
When it comes to infinite numbers of specialists, I think it should not be connected to caste systems at all.
One idea is allowing infinite merchants with Mercantilism, since the government in such states allows any number of merchants to remain in business, though not profitable. Infinite scientists and artists would be allowed by Free Speech.
Remember specialists are government commissioned, so I'm not seeing the Free Speech angle.Optimizer said:
Mercantilism is an interesting idea though. How about swapping the effects of Mercantilism and Caste System? Although that either leaves the annoying foreign trade ban or gives a major balance headache.
Speaking of major balance headaches, I played a game with my new civics. Oligarchy works out well, which is kind of disapointing because I don't like the flavour very much. However, Atheist State might be too good. Every single AI adopted it, even Saladin! I'm thinking maybe I should remove the "no religion spread" part to make it both simpler and to increase the drawback (not only do religions cause unhappiness, but they also spread!).
Holistic
wrapped in plastic
The labor and economic civics are fairly interchangeable (or rather, should be), and Optimizer, I think what you're after with your Social Security/Workers' Rights-civic would be more suitable as an economic civic, since you're approaching it from the "government-angle". For a labor civic, "Trade Unionism", "Organized" or "Unionized" might make more sense as a name (but would not reflect the diversity of union politics between different countries). As for "Labor Market", I'd call the civic "Industrialized", but that's just to have at least one civic name-check the Industrial Revolution.
As for Caste System, the rationale behind calling the civic that gives unlimited merchants/scientists/artists "Caste System" might have been that, while castes restrict the availability of qualified occupations, these restrictions are up to the player to decide on (and hence, unlimited). For "realism", the assigning of specialists should not be quite unlimited but, for instance, only be available once every 10 turns, or have unhappiness similar to pop-rush-unhappiness from reassigning specialists. Such an unhappiness could even by compensated by making priest-specialists also unlimited (which of course would throw any resemblance to balance out the window). Given that caste system in its broadest sense covers very many different "historical" societies, it is not entirely unreasonable to keep it (and I'd rather lose Serfdom). Why not just add a sixth civic to the labor category?
As for Caste System, the rationale behind calling the civic that gives unlimited merchants/scientists/artists "Caste System" might have been that, while castes restrict the availability of qualified occupations, these restrictions are up to the player to decide on (and hence, unlimited). For "realism", the assigning of specialists should not be quite unlimited but, for instance, only be available once every 10 turns, or have unhappiness similar to pop-rush-unhappiness from reassigning specialists. Such an unhappiness could even by compensated by making priest-specialists also unlimited (which of course would throw any resemblance to balance out the window). Given that caste system in its broadest sense covers very many different "historical" societies, it is not entirely unreasonable to keep it (and I'd rather lose Serfdom). Why not just add a sixth civic to the labor category?
Here is a list of my newest ideas. I really need some ideas for some parts.
New Civic Ideas
Government:
Despotism
Low Upkeep
-1 happiness in largest cites
+25% distance maintenance (“Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.”
<Anarchy Length 2>(Who want’s to do back to despotism?)
Oligarchy
Currency
Low Upkeep
-25% City distance maintenance
+25% City number maintenance
Hereditary Rule
Monarchy
High Upkeep
+1 happiness per military unit in city
+25% commerce in capital
Representation
Constitution
Low Upkeep
+3 science per specialist
+3 happiness in 6 largest cities
Police State
Fascism
High Upkeep
+50% military unit production
+2 experience to new units
+2 happiness per military unit in city (Secret police keeps order)
-50% war wariness
<Anarchy Length 2>
Universal Suffrage
Democracy
Medium Upkeep
+1 hammers and commerce from towns
May spend gold to finish production
(Some sort of penalty)
Organization:
Village
Low Upkeep
City State
Polytheism
Low Upkeep
Can draft 1 unit per turn
-25% city maintenance costs (Cities take care of themselves)
-25% culture per city (To slow border growth, and so cities are more isolated)
Imperial
Monarchy
Low Upkeep
+25% production in capital
+2 happiness in capital
-1 happiness in largest 6 cities
Vassalage
Feudalism
High Upkeep
+2 experience to new units
Free units <+6 base, +20% pop>
Federal
Civil Service
Medium Upkeep
+2 happiness in largest cities
-25% city maintenance costs
Nationhood
Nationalism
Low Upkeep
Can draft 3 unit per turn
+2 happiness from barracks
+1 culture from specialists
-1 happiness per 25% foreign nationality (xenophobia, anyone?)
Legal:
Barbarianism
Low Upkeep
-1 happiness in largest 6 cities (“Under barbarism, the strong take what they want from the weak”
<Anarchy Length 2> (Who would volunteer to go back to this civic?)
Decree
Writing (Too many civics were opened by Monarchy)
Low Upkeep
+25% culture
+25% commerce in capital
Bureaucracy
Civil Service
High Upkeep (Bureaucracy becomes corrupt and inefficient over time)
+60% hammers in capital
+60% commerce in capital
Jurisprudence
(Education or Constitution)
Medium Upkeep
+25% culture
+10% science
+1 happiness from courthouses and jails
Freedom of Speech
Liberalism
Low Upkeep
+100% culture
+ 50% Great People birth rate (The government does not suppress ideas)
+ 50% war wariness (There would not have been protests during the Vietnam War if the public had not seen all of those nasty war images)
(I would like this civic to give even more war wariness after Mass Media is researched. Is this possible?)
Labor:
Tribalism
Low Upkeep
Slavery
Bronze Working
Low Upkeep
Can sacrifice population to rush production <2 unhappiness per pop rush>
+1 hammer for quarries (Where slaves commonly worked)
+1 commerce for plantations (Where slaves commonly worked)
<Anarchy Length 2>
Serfdom
Feudalism
Low Upkeep
Works build improvements 50% faster
+1 commerce from farms (feudal lords squeeze out every penny from their serfs)
-50% growth of Cottages, Hamlets, and Villages (urbanization isn't encouraged)
-1 happiness from farms (serfs do not like being overworked)
Caste System
Code of Law
Medium Upkeep
Unlimited artists, scientists, and merchants in cities
Emancipation
Democracy
No Upkeep
Doubles growth of Cottages, Hamlets, and Villages
Gives Civs without Emancipation unhappiness <400>
Economy
Decentralization
Low Upkeep
Mercantilism
Banking
High Upkeep
No foreign trade routes
-50% distance maintenance (Many European colonial empires ran mercantilism, so this seemed a better place for the bonus)
+25% commerce from markets, grocers
+1 commerce per specialist
Lassie-Faire
Corporation
Low Upkeep
+2 trade routes
+25% production from factories (Factories are worked overtime to increase production- and profit)
-2 health (Industrialists do not care about the environment)
-10% commerce (The corporation takes more for themselves)
Regulated Market
Industrialism
Medium Upkeep
+1 trade route per city
+10% production from factories
+ 1 commerce, production, and science per specialist (Some government investments)
+3 Health
State Property
Communism
Low Upkeep
+1 Free Specialist (Investments can be directed to specific ends)
+1 Food from watermills, workshops
-25% Commerce trade yield (Individual initiatives are not encouraged)
-(1 or 2) Trade Routes (Individual initiatives are not encouraged)
Environmentalism
Ecology
High Upkeep
+6 health in all cities
+25% production from recycling plant (Nation recycles as much as possible)
+1 happiness per extra health (Citizens pride themselves in keeping the environment clean. In game terms, there is now a logical reason for all of the extra health)
+1 food from farms, windmills (Hydroponics offer larger yields)
Religion
Paganism
Low Upkeep
Organized Religion
Monotheism
High Upkeep
Can build missionaries without a monastery
Cities with State Religion construct buildings +25% faster
+1 extra happiness in cites with state religion
Theocracy
Theology
Medium Upkeep
Halts the spread of non-state religions
+2 exp in cities with state religion
+10% military production (Easier to recruit a Holy Army)
-1 happiness per non-state religion (Self-explanatory)
<Anarchy Length 2>
Pacifism
Philosophy
No Upkeep
+100% Great People points in cities with state religion
+1 gold per military unit
+100% war wariness (Self-explanatory)
Less free military units <-5 base, -25% pop>(Increased military costs have more effect)
Freedom of Religion
Liberalism
Low Upkeep
No state religion
+1 happiness for every non-state religion in a city
+25% science
-10% culture (The “Morally lax” society described in the Civilopedia)
Credit to Armandeus, Aussie Lurker, Holistic, korn469, JBG, Dubmetender, and TheJopa
for their ideas.
New Civic Ideas
Government:
Despotism
Low Upkeep
-1 happiness in largest cites
+25% distance maintenance (“Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.”
<Anarchy Length 2>(Who want’s to do back to despotism?)
Oligarchy
Currency
Low Upkeep
-25% City distance maintenance
+25% City number maintenance
Hereditary Rule
Monarchy
High Upkeep
+1 happiness per military unit in city
+25% commerce in capital
Representation
Constitution
Low Upkeep
+3 science per specialist
+3 happiness in 6 largest cities
Police State
Fascism
High Upkeep
+50% military unit production
+2 experience to new units
+2 happiness per military unit in city (Secret police keeps order)
-50% war wariness
<Anarchy Length 2>
Universal Suffrage
Democracy
Medium Upkeep
+1 hammers and commerce from towns
May spend gold to finish production
(Some sort of penalty)
Organization:
Village
Low Upkeep
City State
Polytheism
Low Upkeep
Can draft 1 unit per turn
-25% city maintenance costs (Cities take care of themselves)
-25% culture per city (To slow border growth, and so cities are more isolated)
Imperial
Monarchy
Low Upkeep
+25% production in capital
+2 happiness in capital
-1 happiness in largest 6 cities
Vassalage
Feudalism
High Upkeep
+2 experience to new units
Free units <+6 base, +20% pop>
Federal
Civil Service
Medium Upkeep
+2 happiness in largest cities
-25% city maintenance costs
Nationhood
Nationalism
Low Upkeep
Can draft 3 unit per turn
+2 happiness from barracks
+1 culture from specialists
-1 happiness per 25% foreign nationality (xenophobia, anyone?)
Legal:
Barbarianism
Low Upkeep
-1 happiness in largest 6 cities (“Under barbarism, the strong take what they want from the weak”
<Anarchy Length 2> (Who would volunteer to go back to this civic?)
Decree
Writing (Too many civics were opened by Monarchy)
Low Upkeep
+25% culture
+25% commerce in capital
Bureaucracy
Civil Service
High Upkeep (Bureaucracy becomes corrupt and inefficient over time)
+60% hammers in capital
+60% commerce in capital
Jurisprudence
(Education or Constitution)
Medium Upkeep
+25% culture
+10% science
+1 happiness from courthouses and jails
Freedom of Speech
Liberalism
Low Upkeep
+100% culture
+ 50% Great People birth rate (The government does not suppress ideas)
+ 50% war wariness (There would not have been protests during the Vietnam War if the public had not seen all of those nasty war images)
(I would like this civic to give even more war wariness after Mass Media is researched. Is this possible?)
Labor:
Tribalism
Low Upkeep
Slavery
Bronze Working
Low Upkeep
Can sacrifice population to rush production <2 unhappiness per pop rush>
+1 hammer for quarries (Where slaves commonly worked)
+1 commerce for plantations (Where slaves commonly worked)
<Anarchy Length 2>
Serfdom
Feudalism
Low Upkeep
Works build improvements 50% faster
+1 commerce from farms (feudal lords squeeze out every penny from their serfs)
-50% growth of Cottages, Hamlets, and Villages (urbanization isn't encouraged)
-1 happiness from farms (serfs do not like being overworked)
Caste System
Code of Law
Medium Upkeep
Unlimited artists, scientists, and merchants in cities
Emancipation
Democracy
No Upkeep
Doubles growth of Cottages, Hamlets, and Villages
Gives Civs without Emancipation unhappiness <400>
Economy
Decentralization
Low Upkeep
Mercantilism
Banking
High Upkeep
No foreign trade routes
-50% distance maintenance (Many European colonial empires ran mercantilism, so this seemed a better place for the bonus)
+25% commerce from markets, grocers
+1 commerce per specialist
Lassie-Faire
Corporation
Low Upkeep
+2 trade routes
+25% production from factories (Factories are worked overtime to increase production- and profit)
-2 health (Industrialists do not care about the environment)
-10% commerce (The corporation takes more for themselves)
Regulated Market
Industrialism
Medium Upkeep
+1 trade route per city
+10% production from factories
+ 1 commerce, production, and science per specialist (Some government investments)
+3 Health
State Property
Communism
Low Upkeep
+1 Free Specialist (Investments can be directed to specific ends)
+1 Food from watermills, workshops
-25% Commerce trade yield (Individual initiatives are not encouraged)
-(1 or 2) Trade Routes (Individual initiatives are not encouraged)
Environmentalism
Ecology
High Upkeep
+6 health in all cities
+25% production from recycling plant (Nation recycles as much as possible)
+1 happiness per extra health (Citizens pride themselves in keeping the environment clean. In game terms, there is now a logical reason for all of the extra health)
+1 food from farms, windmills (Hydroponics offer larger yields)
Religion
Paganism
Low Upkeep
Organized Religion
Monotheism
High Upkeep
Can build missionaries without a monastery
Cities with State Religion construct buildings +25% faster
+1 extra happiness in cites with state religion
Theocracy
Theology
Medium Upkeep
Halts the spread of non-state religions
+2 exp in cities with state religion
+10% military production (Easier to recruit a Holy Army)
-1 happiness per non-state religion (Self-explanatory)
<Anarchy Length 2>
Pacifism
Philosophy
No Upkeep
+100% Great People points in cities with state religion
+1 gold per military unit
+100% war wariness (Self-explanatory)
Less free military units <-5 base, -25% pop>(Increased military costs have more effect)
Freedom of Religion
Liberalism
Low Upkeep
No state religion
+1 happiness for every non-state religion in a city
+25% science
-10% culture (The “Morally lax” society described in the Civilopedia)
Credit to Armandeus, Aussie Lurker, Holistic, korn469, JBG, Dubmetender, and TheJopa
for their ideas.
Holistic
wrapped in plastic
Some comments. For clarity, when I've suggested changes they're in the quotes.
To me, the main benefit of oligarchy as opposed to despotism would be that it is in some respects more efficient than autocratic governments (since power is delegated) but also less efficient (since oligarchs tend to compete with one another). -50% Distance Maintenance, Low Upkeep might be too bland, though.
I'd change the prerequisite of Oligarchy to Priesthood. Given that there is no one central figure of authority whom the military "defends", the military happiness doesn't make much sense. Also, while oligarchies "typically" result from accumulation of economic power, this doesn't really benefit the state (which the +50% commerce sort of represents). The commerce bonus to the capital makes more sense under Hereditary Rule (though it would probably be a good idea to tone it down to +25% (or perhaps even +10%)).
To me, the main benefit of oligarchy as opposed to despotism would be that it is in some respects more efficient than autocratic governments (since power is delegated) but also less efficient (since oligarchs tend to compete with one another). -50% Distance Maintenance, Low Upkeep might be too bland, though.
High upkeep instead of medium for penalty?
I'd increase the culture-bonus to +50% (to make it better than Decree in this respect). Though, instead of +10% science I'd suggest placing the "other" bonus commerce from towns here (so that towns can be +7 commerce) -- Constitutional law makes it easier to foresee the outcomes of legal decisions and therefore encourages trade (modelled by commerce in this case)?
No upkeep just seems a little bit too good. Unfortunately, state religions can't be "disabled" by XML alone (only enabled), but state religion and freedom of speech don't seem like a very good "match".
Way too penalizing to not have any bonus food from farms before Biology (makes it virtually impossible to support mines or specialists without Flood Plains). The improvement yield changes suggested might be... unbalancing.
Nahh, nothing else is really needed.
How about bonus health instead of free specialists? (Not as much as from environmentalism, though).
No, this is just wrong, who comes up with this drivel?
The reason I choose Monothesm is because I moved Organized Religion to Priesthood, and I wanted to give Monotheism something. I agree with the rest of the changes you made, exceep I personally would tone down the benifits of Oligarchy a bit.
The rest of your suggestions seem fine to me.
I do not mean to be rude, but that was your idea for State Property. (See post #244)
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