civics

[suzi17]

Which civics are the best? I usually update as the game proceeds, ending in free speech, free market, free religion, and I can't remember the others right now. Under what conditions would it be best to not take the most democratic of the options? I keep telling myself that it's not necessarily the conditions that I would want to live under that I'm striving for here..... Is it good to not change to these levels in order to win by a certain method?

I am playing on noble level and am doing much better since I have started diversifying my cities. My latest struggle is a 2-fronted war that I couldn't avoid. I am reloading and trying to do better and am wondering if a change in civics would help, but I'm not sure which is best under what conditions.

Advice?

 

[eric_]

>I keep telling myself that it's not necessarily the conditions that I would want to live under that I'm striving for here.....

Haha! When I first got back into civ I found myself actually feeling bad for other civs when I started crushing them. I also found myself caring about my "citizens." Now I'm taking ques from my President and I'm ruthlessly chasing down my own whims by whatever means necessary

One example that comes immediately to mind of when you want a stricter government: if you have a LARGE civ (e.g. if you're going for a domination or conquest victory), you're gonna want to consider state property as your economy and police state as your government.

[Edit]These are also good wartime civics as they cut back on war weariness, which helps keep production up[/Edit].

 

[eric_]

Actually, for your sitch, if your empire is small, maybe do Police State, Nationhood, and Theocracy, then tailor the other ones to compensate for the loss in revenue from the high cost of a police state.

 

[SlipperyJim]

Police State isn't really necessary unless war weariness is getting out of hand. Sure, the small bonus to unit production is nice, but it isn't worth the high civic cost or the "opportunity cost" of not using a more productive gov't civic. Late in the game, UniSuff is the only government for me. Need a Theatre to pop the borders in your newly-captured city? Buy it! Need to get those new units off to the front lines a little faster? Feed the military-industrial complex with some government cash!

AFAICT, the real wartime civics are Vassalage and Theocracy. When combined, those two civics give all of your newly-constructed units +4 xp. If you're building in a city with a Barracks (which should be the case), now you have 8xp. That's two promotions on a unit that still hasn't seen battle yet! In the later game, if you're good/lucky enough to score the Pentagon, that's 10xp (and three promotions!) in every new unit.

State Property is good for a big, widespread empire. Otherwise, consider either Free Market or Mercantilism. Free Market is nice if your foreign relations are good enough to get decent trade routes with other civs. OTOH, if there aren't any decent and/or willing trade partners, then run Mercantilism for the free "virtual" specialist.

However ... be sure that the anarchy is worth the benefits of switching civics. If you have a big empire, switching two or more civics can easily stick you with 5 turns of anarchy! That's a long time to be non-productive. For that reason, I don't like a lot of civics changes in the late game (when I have that big empire) unless I'm playing a Spiritual leader.

 

[Innawerkz]

I personally have no 'best' civics to use. I find each different game I am running a new combination based on the circumstances & the leader I was given. I play with random leader.

Essentially - picking your civics is very situational:

• Offensive War?

Police State, Vassalage, Emancipation & Theocracy
The others are fairly obvious, but Emancipation is a tricky warmonger tactic because if your opponent(s) is not running it as well, they will suffer dramatic unhappiness which will help cripple their production. Even Police State I hesitate to pull off, but if I was facing 2 or 3 enemies or I was hell-bent on eliminating a large rival - you bet I would switch. Producing 25% more highly-experienced troops may be what it takes to weather the initial storm and establish a significant attack... hopefully!

• Reactive Defense?

Hereditary Rule, Nationhood, Emancipation & Theocracy
HR since you will have a large surplus of units in your cities to combat happiness as well as encroaching enemies, Nationhoood to quickly solidify any weak points in your defense and the other two are largely optional but could help.

• (Re)establishing infrastructure?

Universal Suffrage, Serfdom & Organized Religion
Great for post-war reconstruction efforts if it was drawn out. Most wars leave you with a fair amount of cash on hand from capturing and pillaging, so you can afford to run a deficit to finance the OR civic and/or pay for the completion of essential buildings with US. Serfdom is self-explanatory.

• Isolated Start?

Representation, Caste System, Mercantilism & Pacifism
Free specialists that generate 3 beakers each, Caste System to max out your Great Person Cities capabilities and Pacifism to get those people out ASAP to bolster your lonely civilization. Science or Merchants are my main focus since your trading will be at a minimum for quite some time. This helps to at least try and keep up with the trading AIs.
-----------------------
This is just a small list. There are so many combinations - as I'm sure other posters will point out. Even my suggestions should be carefully considered to ensure they fit the need at that moment.

One Turn Anarchy may not seem like much, but done repeatedly will add up to either a sagging economy, poorly defended cities, or a slip in Tech position.

All the best!

 

[Barney's Soul]

I always use war civics, cause frankly I'm always at war, and even worse I'm never the one to start it

 

[narmox]

Here's another advantage of state property, which I haven't fully explored yet and rarely see discussed:

workshops give +1 food. Either that means they don't take away food anymore, or they actually give a +1 bonus instead of -1. Either way, I imagine you can develop a pretty productive grasslands/plains cities with that...

 

[MrCynical]

Under State Property workshops have no effect on the food output of the tile, as the +1 from the civic counterbalances the normal -1 of the workshop. Watermills also give +1 food under State Property, and since they don;t have an associated penalty they can be a decent alternative to farms along a river.

 

[Nuke_Exchange]

Don't forget that 'none' cost.

 

[Drake007]

Don't forget that 'none' cost.

yeah, also if you have a really big empire the difference between none and low can actually be much bigger than between low and med, med and high, etc.

 

[46Bubba]

I personally have no 'best' civics to use. I find each different game I am running a new combination based on the circumstances & the leader I was given. I play with random leader.

Essentially - picking your civics is very situational

I gotta echo Innawerkz' post and add that you have to begin each game with a victory condition in mind. Combine that goal with the specific traits of your Civ and the situation that you find yourself (i.e. trapped around aggressive civs) and then you are ready to decide the appropirate civics for your game.
I'm only now beginning to appreciate the significance of selecting the right civics. I think most beginners (myself included) always switched to the most recently acquired civic. Like city management, religion, and tech research, you have to closely monitor the civics you've selected throughout the game to ensure they are supporting your game objectives.