Civil Disorder

[GaryNemo]

Unhappiness in Republic

To plan for Republic, we must be aware of the few cities that will suffer a substantail support cost. And unhappiness is another issue that requires modest planning.

Each city is entitled to one 'War Unit' without unhappiness. Units in other cities are not a problem, nor are Diplomats and Caravans, but units in the field, as well as Triremes, are. It is best to plan only one such unit per city, although Shakespeare is an exception.

We are already planning so in 500AD. For example, each Trireme is supported by a different city. Civvium supports a Trireme and is building a Crusader, but the Crusader will be immediately rehomed in TFalls. Why TFalls? Because it is not already supporting a war unit.

Since each city can easily support one unit, we need more cities. A city such as F4, soon built on the Forest 3NW of REGIA CIVITAS, is a fine example. Once RC or Civvium builds another unit, the unit will stroll up the road to F4 and home there. F4 will operate with no guard, no Temple, build a Caravan and then perhaps a Harbor. Ditto for V2 and V3 near Uppsala Barracks.

Several cities already support war units: MD, Ebor, Civvium, LN (Warrior in Khorsbad?), GG sailor, FA Legion near Udal, LC, Udal, Uppsala, Penguin Flats.

These cities could take on such support: REGIA CIVITAS, Elysium, Castle Jayne (Archer in Udal?), Monks Towne (Archer in LC?), TFalls (Crusader #1!), Beast Flats (new Trireme?), Khorsabad.

These cities could take on such support, but seem to weak to me at this time: Octavia's Point. Bedfont Lakes is unguarded so a poor choice.

Other cities: Roskilde, Neuma supports a Legion in MD and a Warrior in Ebor. Mord, Dellham and Reneaux seem choked with support. If I've missed or messed a city, please let us know.

Rout, Civ1 and Jayne are discussing a Mobile Guard Policy in "Northern Chryshe 500AD". These Crusader Guards could be stationed in a city, which might also be supporting a war unit. If the need arises, hire Elvis and Charge! The Dip can be outside somewhere. For example, an extra Dip patrolling the Hills between Fort Anarchy and Monks Towne would be an inexpensive solution.

A Crusader and infantry assault on India will be interesting.

There are several interesting discussions in Civ2 Strategy & Tips. Here is a recent thread where people are discussing a similar issue: Monarchy or Republic? You need to make up your own mind, the relative weight you give to all of the pro's and con's. Some posters mention HG and Mike's. Now we've got them. The techniques that make Republic work are not fully discussed there, but we'll take them one at a time here.

Topic 3, Trade Routes and Markets, to follow. Would someone else like to review it? Hint: Right now, we need to be finding ways to deliver demanded caravans from our core, RC & Elysium, to or from   these key cities: Civvium, Thunderfalls, Marl Downs, and Reneaux. Perhaps others, such as Mord, Neuma, Castle Jayne, and Dellham. Cities that do not plan many more settlers.

 

[Rout]

I never use a Republic government as I find the restrictions on units and happiness inconvenient.
I usually manage to create a massive far-spread civ under monarchy, suffering a bit from corruption, then build Statue of Lib and switch to communism. That way you can support a massive army and you do not need to spend on luxuries. If your civ is big enough and you have lots of improvements built you can still easily be way ahead in science due to sheer volume, zero corruption and library bonuses.
I do not know if this is an appropriate strategy for this game however, as our civ comprises lots of fillers, and not many improvements. Also I have only ever used it up to emperor level (the one before deity right?) and I only ever play on a large map.

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

Communism does not have zero corruption. It has fixed corruption. Tha same amount for each city, no matter the distance from the capital.

Granted, Republic is more difficult, but the rewards much outweight the effort needed.

We also may need temples still. Mich's only makes 3 people content, not much better than a temple itself. Once we get Theology, it will make four content and aftyer communism, back down to three.

Very roughly speaking......
Since we are facing most of our cities having angry people (black clothes) Mich's will only be able to handle 2 of them at best. A temple will handle a third, then HG will make one happy, that should offset a fourth. You can add in the three guards we can have for each city, but that will be lost when we get into a republic, so we can't count on them (that's actually where most people mess up when trying to switch to a republic). So, if we want our cities to be able to get to around size 6-8 we may still need temples (even with the luxuries). Having the temples built now will make the transition to Republic all that much easier.

 

[GaryNemo]

We have 24 cities and 11 Temples. That means nearly half of our cities are poised to grow successfully, plenty. With Republic Celebration we can increase our productivity overnight. With the increased productivity can can begin building Marketplaces.

We are building 1 Temple in a city that would be excellent producing Settlers. The Settlers will irrigate, which will be necessary in some cases to continue growth.

 

[Rout]

Originally posted by Duke of Marlbrough
Communism does not have zero corruption. It has fixed corruption. The same amount for each city, no matter the distance from the capital.

How come in the city resources screen there is always zero under the corruption item? And why does it say in the civilopedia that there is zero corruption? Perhaps it is different on the playstation.

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

Originally posted by Rout
How come in the city resources screen there is always zero under the corruption item? And why does it say in the civilopedia that there is zero corruption? Perhaps it is different on the playstation.

Very well could be different then. On the PC Communism has a flat amount of corruption.

As far as temples, I'm not saying we should build them right away, but I also don't think they should be forgotten about. We are still a ways from Republic, so there is still time to get them built.

Celebrating under a new Republic, with no Marketplaces already done....? What luxury rate were we planning on using? Temples just make celebrating all that much easier. We want our luxuries being used to make content people happy, not have them be wasted on making unhappy people content, right?

 

[GaryNemo]

We own 11 of 24 Temples already. Cities such an LN and GG will never build a Temple. I could plan that half of our cities would grow during a celebration period, and the others would stay small and build settlers. A Luxury rate of 40%, then perhaps 50% for a few turns will add 10 serfs per turn - dramatic growth. Then cut back to 20% or 30% for normal operations. We would then be netting more Science, Tax, and Production than we are now.

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

Yep. Once we get to Republic we should be making more money and science than we are right now, even with 20% luxuries.

Generally, only those cities that have temples will get any real sustained growth from celebrating though. All I am saying is that we shouldn't forget about temples. Not all cities will have them, that's fine, but the ones that should have them should have them (not a mis-type ). We should have as many cities celebrating as possible, for as long as possible. If a city won't be to size 3 by the time we are celebrating, it shouldn't really need a temple.

Granted, at this time, there may be other things we should be building instead, but the more temples we have, the more growth we will have, the more growth, the more we can make, the more we can make, the more we grow, the more we can make, the more we grow..... Why not do what we can to get the process started sooner?

Also, why wouldn't we want to celebrate up the fillers? We don't need to pump them up where they need an aqueduct, but if there is land available for them to use, why not use it? That's the whole point of them, right?

 

[GaryNemo]

Yep. But cities such as GG or BFL need irrigation and.or harbor to grow, and I'd rather the 'Fillers' build Settlers and Caravans. LN could grow, but we are using that food to build Settlers, Cities.

All this talk about Fillers, and we have only 3! And every one agrees they are productive, polite, they don't argue. The build either Caravan or Settler, stopping only occasionally to save a Big City.

Anyway, if we're actually going to go ahead with this Republic Concept, and the price is an extra Temple in Monks Towne and perhaps other cities, I'll pay it. They could be profitable.

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

Cool. If we are going to celebrate in a Republic, we may as well get the most benefit from it and grow any cities we can.

 

[funxus]

Originally posted by Duke of Marlbrough

Celebrating under a new Republic, with no Marketplaces already done....? What luxury rate were we planning on using? Temples just make celebrating all that much easier. We want our luxuries being used to make content people happy, not have them be wasted on making unhappy people content, right?

martial law units are added first - we can skip them in republic
luxuries are added second - nothing else has been added before this one in republic
temples and happy wonders comes next (HG counts as two luxuries after all luxuries has been applied) -These will be applied to all those who were not made happy with luxuries

Luxuries are added first and is applied to a citizen until it's happy. This means if all citizens are red, half will be happy (rounded down) and the rest unhappy. The unhappies are then taken care of with improvements and wonders.

The maximum amount of luxuries that can be used is (size of city)*2, i e two luxuries per citizen. 2 lux will make red content, and two more will make him happy. 2 lux will make black guy happy.
If all citizens are red (originally), we have an infinite amount of luxuries, the size is odd and no HG or CfC the city wont celebrate.
We have many cities and HG so we wont have this problem.

Unfortunately we will have to waste luxuries to make unhappy people content, before they are used to make them happy, because they are added first and then the improvements can do their work
We should also make sure we don't overluxure the people, because the luxuries will at some point be wasted and could instead be used for science and money.

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

Very nice analysis.

Yes, that's my point.... Luxuries are spent on making one person happy, then it moves on to the next. A city only celebrates when it has the same number or more happy people over content people, with no unhappies. So, while the luxuries are doing the work to make the people happy and content, the temples and Mike's will be working on making getting rid of the unhappies so the city can celebrate.

 

[GaryNemo]

3. Trade Routes and Markets.

Trade Routes are better than serfs on roads. They cost 50 shields and some traveling, nothing thereafter, and create trade arrows every turn. And when created, we profit. The Profit is a complex function of Demanded Goods, Max Trade arrows in both cities (temporarily), Road, Island, Enemy and so on.

When we delivered the Wine caravan to Viborg in 660AD, we earned 360 gold. Very nice, it takes us 11 turns to gain that much gold. It is enough to constantly IPRB to quicken Caravan production. But there is more. We were also paid 360 Science Beakers. That is 2.5 turns of beakers from Elysium et al. Hence, we have already discovered University and begun to research Invention. When we deliver the Silk into India, the same thing will happen. Gems and Gold are a better profit, and Silver Spice and Wine are as profitable as Silk.

Because the payoff is proportional to trade arrows, it will be nearly doubled by Republic, but not directly affected by the existance of a Marketplace. With this money, we can purchase enemy cities. But recall Republic has double trouble: each unit requires both shield support and unhappiness support. For that reason, every None unit we purchase, Settler, Barb Legion, Catapult, Warrior, anything is tremendously valuable. These units can be used to patrol, guard mountains, and may be too valuable for ordinary combat.

Marketplaces multiply the effect of trade luxuries as well as gold. For Republic, we must begin to plan to build them. We are building our first one, in Elysium. It will pay for itself, currently a paltry 2 or 3 gold per turn. Here is the good part. The Marketplace will help us to pump Elysium up from 4 serfs to 8, in a mere century. That will somewhat double the Trade arrows, Science and Production.

Next Topic: 4, Wonders: Mike's is all we need. Would someone else like to review it?

 

[Rout]

Trade routes run out though, they expire. Its dreadful when this happens and upsets your lux rate.
Also, science is only generated by caravans upon arrival, wheras roads+improvements generate each turn.

 

[MonkE]

by Rout
Trade routes run out though, they expire.

I am unfamiliar with such a thing. I have never seen a trade route expire.

 

[naervod]

In my many years of playing Civ 2, I have never seen a trade route expire by themselves.

 

[funxus]

I agree with Rout, I think they do sometimes I don't know why and when?

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

I've never seen it happen...?

I know they can go away if replaced by a better trade route or if replaced by a food route, but otherwise they should stay the entire game.

 

[GaryNemo]

Topic 4. Wonders: Mike's is all we need.

Well, we have Mike's and we are in Republic. That about sums it up, eh? Bach was not necessary, because in Republic we are allowed one War Unit (Military or Caravel) per city. We will use Bach to get into Democracy - then far away cities like Banana Bay, Routskilde and Uppsala can really shine.

There is no longer any Martial Law. All of our Guards are now merely defenders. Certain Warriors could be disbanded - let's carefully plan this to use the 5 shields in lieu of $11 IPRB. We could also discover Feudalism, costing us the option of IPRB=10, but promoting our weak warriors into substantial Pikemen, and eventually Riflemen.

5. Oedo year for the Revolution.

Certain game years are optimal for a revolution, until we get Statue of Liberty. These occur every four turns. A Chart of game turns and years is available in the Civ2 Gotm section. Iirc, download one of the results excel spreadsheets, and the chart is one of the last tabs.

Anyway, we did it. The oedo year was 940, so we revolted in 920AD. NUF suffered only one turn of lost Science, generally the minimum. As a historical note, MonkE's ancient plan to get us into Monarchy also used the oedo year. In that case, he timed our discovery of Monarchy, so there were no lost turns in anarchy.

 

[funxus]

Comment on topic 4:
Not only is the wonder Bach good for happiness, but also the tech that allows it. Theology will make cathedrals more effective, +1, and since we have mike's that will effect our whole civilization. I think the total will be 4 "unhappies to content", until communism.