Civilization 5 and Steam(works)

[12agnar0k]

now only question if here was a part you meant serious in this post

Yes it is true, all parts of my posts praising Steam or arguing in thier defence, or talking about Game Mechanics, or Gobal Politics, all this stuff I go on about is me trying to funny and humerous. The serious stuff, is no joke, Steam will take over the world, take my word on this, and when the War of the corporations is over and the only remaining Corporations own everything, everyone and all our souls is the two Corporations that made a coalition Government which shall be known by all as Steam&Taco-Bell. Bow before your new masters. We are all but slaves now. This is serious, all this other talk of Game Mechanics, suggestions for Civiliation 5 or arguements about Steam subscription is all hogwash and dark humor. But now we must be serious, the war of the corporations is coming. We shall all meet our makers soon.... in the field of battle, the first conflict to break out will be Microsoft Vs Mc'Donalds as they fight over whether or not Big'Mac's are more famous than Windows.

 

[Tatran]

Slightly off topic (maybe old news), but still a future horror scenario.

It seems Blizzard will start using real names of players (Real ID) at their Starcraft II forum. Other Blizzard fora will follow.
And all because of the flame wars over there.

 

[LaRate]

One thing that bugs me about Steam is the pricing of games in the Steam Shop. One would suspect from the vendor's savings on data media, packaging and logistics that games via Steam should be at least a tad cheaper than their boxed counterparts.

Unfortunately the opposite is the case - shop retail prices begin to fall only few weeks after the release while Steam versions sometimes still hold the original price tag even when a game already has a sequel.

I usually postpone game purchases until the game reaches the 20€ mark (30€ if I really think it a great game) - which usually doesn't take much longer than six months. The last game I pirated was about 10 years ago. However, I almost never pay the full release prices, since I regard them as way too high. Most of my purchases are 10€-games (approx. one year after release with most games).

If Steam should wipe out the classical distribution channel in the light of DRM on the one hand, and should remain unrivaled as digital distributor, I fear even more monopolist pricing. I think having to pay 40-50€ for a year-old game would make piracy seem like a fair response. And well, once I'm illegaly at it - it doesn't really matter any more if that game I pirate is an older one or just released...

 

[The_Coyote]

@ LaRate

If you look at this thread, the main argument for the high price will be something like: "The Publisher set the price" - so steam is innocent. I still don´t believe this.

But there are certainly measures to ensure that the prices for games sold on online distributors can´t get too low (have the same level like the retail versions). Simply if not, the big retailers wouldn´t sell the game anymore.

 

[Senethro]

But there are certainly measures

These measures will be the work of the publisher, therefore the publisher controls the price.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Yeah there are a lot of people who will pirate the game no matter what. And there are people who will pirate it but wouldn't buy it. But there's also the middle ground of people who would be willing to buy it, but if they happen to be able to easily and quickly obtain a pirated copy, hey it's hard to beat the price tag of $0. DRM aims to convert some of the later group into sales.

I've seen some pretty convinving articles discussing how DRM actually doesn't slow piracy at all. Rather, it gives the illusion that the publisher is doing something to stop piracy. Investors see it, decide their money will be protected, and write the check. So in the end, the DRM isn't meant to prevent lost sales due to piracy; but instead it's to gain confidence from potential stockholders. Which is the same thing in the end, I suppose.

To the topic of how "this is the way things are going to be, and nobody can stop it, get used to it," I'm surprised nobody has brought up bankrupt Circuit City and their Failed DivX scheme, yet. That was the way things were going to be and nobody was going to stop that either:
http://hometheater.about.com/library/weekly/aa062199.htm

 

[The_Coyote]

These measures will be the work of the publisher, therefore the publisher controls the price.

i would say: These measures will be the work of the publisher, therefore the publisher influences the price.

 

[LaRate]

In a perfect world, games would incorporate copy protection that is both not crackable on the one hand and is completely unobstrusive to the legimite customer on the other.

Alas, the complete opposite is reality.

Before the last BTS patch, I had a cracked exe running Civ4. I bought the game and the extensions, kept the CDs but I simply decided that I wouldn't bear having a worse product than anybody who pirated the game. However, it was no less illegal (according to german law) - which I think is really sad.

 

[frekk]

The problem with all this is I don't see a way for there to be DRM or other authentication program and not have the legal purchaser suffer for it. Therefore I think DRM free or a choice of using a box code and have a drive check for copies of the game purchased in stores is the only way to go where the consumer is truly satisfied, without the silliness of 3rd party software like Steam.

I don't actually mind Steam for those who want Steam, live and let live I say.

I just wish Steam fans would extend me the same courtesy and support, or at least not stand in the way of, a non-Steam version. Just as I wouldn't obstructive of their wish to have a Steam version if ciV wasn't. They're a very discourteous and unreasonable community, zealously attacking people for trying to communicate their desires to the industry.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

I agree. I just don't understand the combative and condescending attitude towards people who just don't happen to like the same things they like.

 

[ZimbuTheMonkey]

I am definitely buying it. I actually like Steam even with its drawbacks.

Though the problem I have is with the 0-day DLC, which is making me feel dirty about the purchase which is not something you want your customers to feel like.

 

[DivljaJagoda]

I will buy the game but comments about steam have made me a bit worried about it.

 

[arstal]

@ LaRate

If you look at this thread, the main argument for the high price will be something like: "The Publisher set the price" - so steam is innocent. I still don´t believe this.

But there are certainly measures to ensure that the prices for games sold on online distributors can´t get too low (have the same level like the retail versions). Simply if not, the big retailers wouldn´t sell the game anymore.

It comes down to who has the most market power. The publishers have more market power then Steam. If Valve decided to stop playing ball, you'd see Impulse exclusives and Gamersgate exclusives, with no version on Steam instead.

 

[Shakes]

I would argue that few people pirate a game they would normally buy, and instead that most simply go without if they can't get it free.

I would argue that you don't know many people who pirate games (or at least don't know many who do so openly) if you think this. Pirate or not pirate isn't some black and white thing. Although I'm not aware of any such study on PC game piracy, music piracy surveys have found that people who download music also buy more music than average.

If people are even thinking about paying for it they're probably not going to pirate it. If the price is too high, they can wait til the price falls.

This I can partly agree on, piracy isn't really THAT price sensitive. People say games are too expensive to justify piracy, but it's just because that sounds better than saying you pirate because you can.

 

[Shakes]

I've seen some pretty convinving articles discussing how DRM actually doesn't slow piracy at all. Rather, it gives the illusion that the publisher is doing something to stop piracy. Investors see it, decide their money will be protected, and write the check. So in the end, the DRM isn't meant to prevent lost sales due to piracy; but instead it's to gain confidence from potential stockholders. Which is the same thing in the end, I suppose.

I find those articles pretty hard to believe, as with any study that relies on people self reporting activity that they might wish to hide, the amount of noise in the data is pretty high.

I also think it depends what type of DRM you use, simple CD check style DRM has the issue that once people crack a version of it all titles using it go down. But like I said, releasing for the console instead of the PC seems to be working out pretty well for people. Online activation also, the reason Blizzard can keep selling Diablo & Starcraft for decent prices even though they're ancient is because battle.net access requires you purchase the game.

Even the PC's biggest mega-hit franchise, the Sims, requires a valid CD key to access the community features.

 

[Macadami]

Here's the deal with steam drm.....many gamers, much like myself, have atleast 1 steam game installed(i have probably 6) Counterstrike, tf2, half life, portal, etc etc. Quite a few really good steam only games already out there.

Now because those games require steam to play, require an online connection for multiplayer, and are linked directly to my account, there is no way in hell i would attempt to pirate a steam game and risk losing the ability to play the games I already own.

Sure people who -only- pirate games, have no desire to play multiplayer, and have zero other steam games may can get around the DRM, but that's not most people.

Have i pirated games? Sure. All of them being non steam games, and all but a couple I went on to purchase. I even 'tried' out civ4 before i bought it and all it's expansions for $40 on steam. The move to 0-day dlc and frequent patches make the life of a pirate hell. Yeah there will be cracked patches, and different game.exe's but all of them require a certain pirated copy, with a certain crack, and will have limitations even then. Couple that with losing all of your current steam games and spending $50 far outweighs the hassles and risks.

Moderator Action: Don't advocate piracy here, we have zero tolerance for it.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Acronym2]

Trust me, it can be done VERY easily. The like above gives a rough idea just how easy it it. The best know pirate site in 2008 was also in the top 100 sites WORLDWIDE for internet traffic, that is BIG money.

Oh, I don't doubt there is money in it but I have yet to see such a pirated software download sale site that wasn't distributing viruses hidden in the sofware. Having alot of traffic is sometimes a meaningless indicator and I would wonder what type of organization posts a "top 100" that includes sites with illegal downloads.

Once again, I do feel the industry overstates its loss to piracy and Steam is more of a marketing strategy than a DRM strategy.

Here's the deal with steam drm.....many gamers, much like myself, have atleast 1 steam game installed(i have probably 6) Counterstrike, tf2, half life, portal, etc etc. Quite a few really good steam only games already out there.

Now because those games require steam to play, require an online connection for multiplayer, and are linked directly to my account, there is no way in hell i would attempt to pirate a steam game and risk losing the ability to play the games I already own.

Sure people who -only- pirate games, have no desire to play multiplayer, and have zero other steam games may can get around the DRM, but that's not most people.

Have i pirated games? Sure. All of them being non steam games, and all but a couple I went on to purchase. I even 'tried' out civ4 before i bought it and all it's expansions for $40 on steam. The move to 0-day dlc and frequent patches make the life of a pirate hell. Yeah there will be cracked patches, and different game.exe's but all of them require a certain pirated copy, with a certain crack, and will have limitations even then. Couple that with losing all of your current steam games and spending $50 far outweighs the hassles and risks.

Moderator Action: Don't advocate piracy here, we have zero tolerance for it.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

This is all somewhat misleading as Steam is not supposed to scan your PC for games, but rather the game periodically revalidates itself through Steam when an internet connection is present. (Or perhaps even tries when one is not present as some have stated.) If what you say is true, then Steam will have to scan your system looking for telltale signs of invalid exclusive Steam-Powered titles and be able identify and distiguish from non-Steam stand-alone titles.

One of the questions I've been proposing that nobody seems to know much about is just what type of permissions does Steam have and what level of access to the system.

 

[lemmy101]

Are all those who are deciding to punish Firaxis / Take Two for taking measures to get more sales from Civ 5 going to reconsider after the announcement that they've had to lay off 20 development staff?

I sure hope so.

This is a taste of what's to come... and if you'd take no Firaxis over a Firaxis that wants you to install Steam then that's a really sad sad thing.

 

[Commander Bello]

Are all those who are deciding to punish Firaxis / Take Two for taking measures to get more sales from Civ 5 going to reconsider after the announcement that they've had to lay off 20 development staff?

I sure hope so.

This is a taste of what's to come... and if you'd take no Firaxis over a Firaxis that wants you to install Steam then that's a really sad sad thing.

Then it's a sad sad thing. *shrugs shoulders*

I have to admit that I prefer any company trying to make me give up my rights as consumer and customer to plainly drown than to have to accept such an action.

 

[lemmy101]

Then it's a sad sad thing. *shrugs shoulders*

I have to admit that I prefer any company trying to make me give up my rights as consumer and customer to plainly drown than to have to accept such an action.

WOW talk about melodrama. BTW: Civcouldntgiveaf**ktics.com is unregistered really seems like a more appropriate site for you. ;D

Ironic that you people who defend the PC as some bastion of freedom are also destroying the PC market by getting angry about any attempts to legitimise it as a marketable platform, and are therefore driving yourselves toward one day only having consoles for gaming, where you would have none of this freedom at all.