Civilization 5 and Steam(works)

[Acronym2]

Yeah, I hear what you guys are saying. That's one thing that causes me to hesitate over Steam. Things like turning off a firewall/virus scanner or reconfiguring DEP or UAC are rediculous and possibly dangerous solutions to run/install any program. Not to mention having to jury-rig a solution. Yet again, I pose the question as to the security of Steam. What permissions does it have over your system? Nobody seems to have or be interested in obtaining any such information. Sometimes I get the impression like this is a "taboo" sunbject and that Steam may possibly represent quite a large vulnerability for millions of people.

 

[Rebel44]

Yeah, I hear what you guys are saying. That's one thing that causes me to hesitate over Steam. Things like turning off a firewall/virus scanner or reconfiguring DEP or UAC are rediculous and possibly dangerous solutions to run/install any program. Not to mention having to jury-rig a solution. Yet again, I pose the question as to the security of Steam. What permissions does it have over your system? Nobody seems to have or be interested in obtaining any such information. Sometimes I get the impression like this is a "taboo" sunbject and that Steam may possibly represent quite a large vulnerability for millions of people.

I have no idea how the hell did you get idea that you have to change those things.....

As someone who have Steam for over 3 years I never had to :
disable firewall because of Steam
disablke AV software because of Steam
change DEP or UAC settings because of Steam.

Only thing that I needed to do was to allow exception for Steam into firewall rules (just like for many other programs).

btw.: people who spread such BS should STFU!!!

Moderator Action: Warned - flaming.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[arstal]

Ok I'm sorry that dose not make any sense, If 2K is this profit hungry soulless corporation, if Civ 5 dose not preform well (i.e. no/little profits) then your not going to get a Steamless Civ 6 your just not going to get another Civ period and since 2K now owns the Civ trademark (someone correct me if I am wrong here) forming a new company if not going to do anything.

It would take more then one bomb to kill Civ.

Look how many chances the Total War series got.

also, the Firaxis talent could make a great Civ-style game without it being called Civ. I'm sure the talent would "respawn" somewhere.

 

[azzaman333]

<snip>
As someone who have Steam for over 3 years I never had to :
disable firewall because of Steam
disablke AV software because of Steam
change DEP or UAC settings because of Steam.

Only thing that I needed to do was to allow exception for Steam into firewall rules (just like for many other programs).

<snip>

Replace 3 years with 4 and a half years and your post describes my experience with steam.

 

[ThERat]

Rebel44, calm down before you tell me to STFU

I just had those issues with steam as it wouldn't be able to connect anymore (after having had steam on my computer for 2+ years. It simply didn't want to start. Searching for solutions (no the steam help is not of any use), there are several suggestions including disabling the firewall for a reinstall etc. etc.

So, before you scream around, be gald that YOU didn't have any issues with steam. However, there are people who do have issue and those issues made me quite worried about the problems that people with less computer literacy might face.

 

[PieceOfMind]

I have no idea how the hell did you get idea that you have to change those things.....

As someone who have Steam for over 3 years I never had to :
disable firewall because of Steam
disablke AV software because of Steam
change DEP or UAC settings because of Steam.

Only thing that I needed to do was to allow exception for Steam into firewall rules (just like for many other programs).

btw.: people who spread such BS should STFU!!!

Moderator Action: Warned - flaming.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

From my recent experience with Steam, I have found some games don't work properly unless the firewall is disabled. I'm using Kerio's free firewall FYI. (EDIT... Actually, it's Sunbelt Software nowadays)

It's possible that with some more searching I might find a way to get these games to work with the firewall still running, but at the very least it's clear that some games require non-standard ways accessing the internet that not all firewalls will allow. To be clear, I have my firewall set to ask me permission whenever an ingoing or outgoing connection is attempted. 99% of the time I give the permission, and yes Steam and any game that uses Steam I have so far given permission to.

It's possible it's a router problem or something else, of course, but the fact is I have seen some games work with my firewall disabled where they did not work when it was enabled.

So something that might be reasonable for me to ask you is what firewall do you use?

 

[tom2050]

I have no idea how the hell did you get idea that you have to change those things.....

IIRC, 2K Elizabeth or 2K Greg pointed out that you may need to disable firewall if there was a specific problem installing Steam. I can't remember which 2K it was and don't recall what the problem may have been, but it was a thread discussing Steam in this Civ 5 forum.

It may have even been from the Valve website saying this, now that I think about it.

 

[ori]

It is from the Valve description of how to get the steam client to work if it fails, one of the things they tell you is that you may need to disable the firewall/antimalware program (while stating they value the safety of your computer ) - its a standard troubleshooting advice for programs with online connectivity, though it is a really, really bad advice for a program like that. Some anti-malware programs will interfere with programs like the Steam client, but advising customers to disable it while being online is bad advice (tm).

 

[Rebel44]

From my recent experience with Steam, I have found some games don't work properly unless the firewall is disabled. I'm using Kerio's free firewall FYI. (EDIT... Actually, it's Sunbelt Software nowadays)

It's possible that with some more searching I might find a way to get these games to work with the firewall still running, but at the very least it's clear that some games require non-standard ways accessing the internet that not all firewalls will allow. To be clear, I have my firewall set to ask me permission whenever an ingoing or outgoing connection is attempted. 99% of the time I give the permission, and yes Steam and any game that uses Steam I have so far given permission to.

It's possible it's a router problem or something else, of course, but the fact is I have seen some games work with my firewall disabled where they did not work when it was enabled.

So something that might be reasonable for me to ask you is what firewall do you use?

I agree that individual games might need some system settings changed, but thats not problem with Steam - thats problem with game itself.

It is from the Valve description of how to get the steam client to work if it fails, one of the things they tell you is that you may need to disable the firewall/antimalware program (while stating they value the safety of your computer ) - its a standard troubleshooting advice for programs with online connectivity, though it is a really, really bad advice for a program like that. Some anti-malware programs will interfere with programs like the Steam client, but advising customers to disable it while being online is bad advice (tm).

Yes, but thats only for troubleshooting, if/when you find out that you AV is preventing your games from running, long term solution is to either change its setting or use different AV.

 

[PieceOfMind]

You have a point.

 

[ori]

Yes, but thats only for troubleshooting, if/when you find out that you AV is preventing your games from running, long term solution is to either change its setting or use different AV.

The problem is this

Important:

We encourage protecting your PC from viruses, spyware and other forms of malicious software. However, it is not necessary to run anti-virus and other security applications while you are engaged in playing a game on Steam.

Anti-virus applications often interfere with Steam and can cause a range of problems from connection issues to games not launching correctly. Please disable your anti-virus software before launching Steam if you are experiencing issues while using Steam.

As I said, its standard troubleshooting advice, but the way they advise people with problems on this page (and it has some more to say about specific programs) is bad advice. This is phrased in a way to ensure that a user with little knowledge about their computer is tempted to keep the antivir software off while being online with the Steam client. This is mostly some tech support person being stupid - but its still the official advice for people experiencing problems with antivirus software.

Note: they are telling people to change some settings, but failing that they do not advise changing the AV (which by the way can be quite costly or in some cases not a possiblity) they tell them to either disable or even uninstall it. To reiterate, its just bad advice.

Now: it is quite likely a non-issue for most people, but there are apparently quite a few commercially available anti-virus packages out there that do or at least have in the past interfere(d) with the Steam client's execution. Advising users to go without AV while being online is a sign of a tech support not actually caring about the consequences of such action (though frankly, its not terribly bad compared to other FAQ type advice by other gaming companies - they tend to just post advice written for specific support tickets without terribly much editorial review).

Edit: as for the firewall thing, I don't actually agree that the steam client is off the hook there either, mostly because of this page:

The following applications have been known to cause severe issues with Steam and playing games:

Anti-Virus Applications

* Avast!
* AVG Anti-virus *
* Kaspersky Anti-virus
* McAfee Anti-virus
* Nod32 Anti-virus *
* Norton/Symantec Anti-virus
* VIGuard Anti-virus

Anti-Spyware Applications

* CA Pest Patrol
* Spycatcher Express
* Webroot Spy Sweeper *

Firewall/Security Applications

* Comodo
* CYBERsitter
* ESET Smart Security
* Netlimiter
* McAfee Personal Firewall
* Nvidia Network Access Manager/Firewall
* Peer Guardian
* Tiny Personal Firewall
* Verizon Internet Security Suite
* Zone Alarm



* We recommend that these applications are fully uninstalled from your system if disabling them does not resolve the issue

that is quite a bunch of firewall and other safety related programs that by their own advice might need to be removed from the computer or at least disabled - again, its likely just a compilation of individual problems, but telling users to remove/disable their firewall and/or antivirus software for a program that is mostly used online is not good advice - especially since those users unwary enough to follow this advice are likely those that have not kept their OS updated either, so they are the ones most likely to be adversely affected by this advice.

 

[tom2050]

I don't understand how Valve came to the conclusion that it is not required to run AV software and it is not required to run any security applications while playing Steam games. That is the most ridiculous statement I've ever heard and is 100% incorrect.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

See, this was my original gripe with the Steam, here. It's one more layer of possible issues that never needed to be there to begin with.

 

[Senethro]

I don't understand how Valve came to the conclusion that it is not required to run AV software and it is not required to run any security applications while playing Steam games. That is the most ridiculous statement I've ever heard and is 100% incorrect.

They're not saying this, you're just making the worst possible interpretation. As only a few posts up, the implication is that as a long term solution you would change software if the problem was that big a deal to you, not that you would go without.

 

[ori]

Actually they are saying that

However, it is not necessary to run anti-virus and other security applications while you are engaged in playing a game on Steam.

of course the solution is what you state - but that is not what they state. And this one sentence is baffling - its bad bad bad bad bad bad advice no matter how you slice it - telling a customer that they can go online without any protection is malpractice by their tech support.

 

[Senethro]

But you don't have to be online to run Steam and technicially it isn't necessary. Need it also be repeated that this is a tech support article and not general advice?

 

[tom2050]

But you don't have to be online to run Steam and technicially it isn't necessary. Need it also be repeated that this is a tech support article and not general advice?

Why are you defending a tech support statement telling consumers that if Steam doesn't work to turn all security measures off from your computer? It's horrible advice.

There's no possible way they can ensure/or should imply that something won't happen while you are running with no protection while playing steam games.

It's an irresponsible statement to say the least. What they should do is ensure their program works with AV and security programs.

 

[Commander Bello]

That one is a goody too :

We strongly recommend that you disable all of your Anti-Virus software before launching Steam to ensure that the games have access to your system's resources. Once you are done playing games, you can re-enable the software to ensure that your system is protected.

(Emphasis Steam supportwiki)

Gives you a really good feeling when you "browse the web and keep in touch with the community while playing your favorite game".

 

[ori]

But you don't have to be online to run Steam and technicially it isn't necessary. Need it also be repeated that this is a tech support article and not general advice?

This statement is general advice - they state clearly you need no AV when playing the game. They do not state offline mode, and frankly since Steam is by default online and requires online for lots of its capability they strongly imply that you can be online without AV, nay they state it. Its just horrible, horrible advice even for a Tech Support statement, putting it online with the heading "Important" and stating it as fact that you do not need AV is making it general advice - even if put under the troubleshooting header.
There is not way to defend such a statement - there is no possible circumstance in which it is acceptable advice to a specific user and its phrased as a general comment - you do not need AV while using steam to play a game - you cannot get more general and more damaging to your customers either.
As I said - I am not terribly surprised since the quality of lots of gaming Tech Support FAQs is horrible and mostly just a compilation of email support stuff with no editorial oversight - but this is no excuse for a company distributing a product that requires online connectivity at times and strongly nudges the customer towards mostly online connection to state that no AV is needed while using this program - this is never ever acceptable advice. Not once.

 

[tom2050]

That's another question... I'm pretty sure you can get a virus while using Steam's browser... unless Steam is a fully integrated Anti-Virus program itself? I'm pretty sure the answer is no.

This makes having an AV and security protections even more important than ever while playing Steam games and browsing the web in the Steam browser. BTW, what browser does Steam use? Is it secure?