Civilization 5

[Healz]

A good idea as long as it is used to create and introduce things that expand Civ V like the need for coding for transport helicopters, transport planes and attack helicopters. Warsaw Pact vs NATO would be a cool WWIII scenario. Especially if it takes place in about 2020 which is when Russia looks like it might get back on its feet again properly...

Alternatively you could do a relevant WWIII scenario which pits the Chinese against UN and NATO forces. At the moment this looks to be the most realistic scenario for a Third World Conflict. China is building up its forces for something. Is NATO and the UN ready to withstand the Chinese Dragon? A good beginning question for a scenario. Perhaps it could have a few different starting options like starting already at War or in the period leading up to the conflict. A good scenario idea. A good chance also to introduce new units to Civ like Mobile AA that really is mobile. SAM Battery defences for a city should be reintroduced with troops being drawn according to an equation from the defenders of that city. But it should only work with Infantry units or higher... Also there should be added the ability to build radar defences around the perimeter of your territory to aid in aircraft defence. Also when you are peace, but with no Open Borders agreement with that nation, a dialogue box should come up if there is a recon flight offering: 1. Do Nothing; 2. Shoot Down Recon Flight. 3. Escort Recon Flight From Territory.

1. Enemy gets intelligence they were flying for. 2. Chance that Recon Craft will be sucessfully shot down with chance of diplomatic penalty. 3. Chance recon flight gets intercepted and successfully escorted from your territory, may incur diplomatic penalty.

All of these options would add some nail-biting tension to a WWIII scenario of before the War Begins, as to what the enemy is going to do. You will be needing that intelligence at the risk of starting the very war you are trying to prevent...

Also Special Forces should be involved as a unit that can slip in and attempt to do special missions behind enemy lines at great risk such as attempting to destroy nuclear launch facilities and interfere with enemy methods of communication and transport ala Tom Clancy and WWII Commandos and SOE Operatives.

This could be the cool scenario that could really sell Civ V if done well with the right coding and the right ideas. WWIII World In Ashes. I can see the opening Video: WWI we fought back the Germans. WWII We fought back the Germans again. WWIII this time we fight a new prepared enemy- The Red Dragon...

 

[exhile]

A good idea as long as it is used to create and introduce things that expand Civ V like the need for coding for transport helicopters, transport planes and attack helicopters. Warsaw Pact vs NATO would be a cool WWIII scenario. Especially if it takes place in about 2020 which is when Russia looks like it might get back on its feet again properly...

Alternatively you could do a relevant WWIII scenario which pits the Chinese against UN and NATO forces. At the moment this looks to be the most realistic scenario for a Third World Conflict. China is building up its forces for something. Is NATO and the UN ready to withstand the Chinese Dragon? A good beginning question for a scenario. Perhaps it could have a few different starting options like starting already at War or in the period leading up to the conflict. A good scenario idea. A good chance also to introduce new units to Civ like Mobile AA that really is mobile. SAM Battery defences for a city should be reintroduced with troops being drawn according to an equation from the defenders of that city. But it should only work with Infantry units or higher... Also there should be added the ability to build radar defences around the perimeter of your territory to aid in aircraft defence. Also when you are peace, but with no Open Borders agreement with that nation, a dialogue box should come up if there is a recon flight offering: 1. Do Nothing; 2. Shoot Down Recon Flight. 3. Escort Recon Flight From Territory.

1. Enemy gets intelligence they were flying for. 2. Chance that Recon Craft will be sucessfully shot down with chance of diplomatic penalty. 3. Chance recon flight gets intercepted and successfully escorted from your territory, may incur diplomatic penalty.

All of these options would add some nail-biting tension to a WWIII scenario of before the War Begins, as to what the enemy is going to do. You will be needing that intelligence at the risk of starting the very war you are trying to prevent...

Also Special Forces should be involved as a unit that can slip in and attempt to do special missions behind enemy lines at great risk such as attempting to destroy nuclear launch facilities and interfere with enemy methods of communication and transport ala Tom Clancy and WWII Commandos and SOE Operatives.

This could be the cool scenario that could really sell Civ V if done well with the right coding and the right ideas. WWIII World In Ashes. I can see the opening Video: WWI we fought back the Germans. WWII We fought back the Germans again. WWIII this time we fight a new prepared enemy- The Red Dragon...

There is no WWIII scenario because it never happened and will never happen. It's like a future scenario would be North America vs. South America. Raul Castro & Hugo Chavez will fight the American Imperialism. Even Russia paid a port visit to Cuba last month. The first in who knows how many decades.

China will be competing with Japan for dominance in East Asia. I don't know where you brought the UN & NATO from.

 

[jsweeney]

You can't say it'll never happen because no one knew the second one would after the first, and also civ is about the what if factor in life, and alot of future scenarios are out there, final frontier and broken star for one. People dont like being historical in Civ, theres just not as much fun in the historical aspect then the creative aspect.

 

[SpArKpLuG]

There is no WWIII scenario because it never happened and will never happen. It's like a future scenario would be North America vs. South America. Raul Castro & Hugo Chavez will fight the American Imperialism. Even Russia paid a port visit to Cuba last month. The first in who knows how many decades.

China will be competing with Japan for dominance in East Asia. I don't know where you brought the UN & NATO from.

Why does it have to be realistic if it's in a game?

 

[Slickshooter]

One of the most annoying features of CIV4 to me actually is the tech tree. I doubt ancient leaders had a hindsight view of all technologies that could exist or could be researched. The technologies shown on the tree were diffused into different geographic areas by cultural/commercial exchanges or through warfare. So, I'd like to see the tech tree completely disappear in Civ5 and have an unknown tech path that is decided by how you the player interact with other civilizations, use trade routes, spies, etc... Different CIVs could have different technologies and even "barbarians" can have their own technologies, maybe iron working.

Also I think the cultural aspect of the game should only apply to say barbarians who are influenced by a regions culture and eventually convert to it such as the ancient Assyrians who brought Ancient Mesopotamia to great heights or the Gauls that were eventually Romanized. It would make the game much more dynamic and realistic and enjoyable in one.

Furthermore, diplomats should be brought back, I mean it's very unrealistic for the player to just meet with another Civ leader by just clicking his/her name. Even the greatest diplomatic negotiations weren't done face to face instantly, such as the case between Saladin and Lionheart. Wars didn't just end by instantly negotiating, a diplomat had to be sent from hundreds of miles away just to negotiate peace and even if peace was decided it was unknown to a Civ's army until they received a message from their capital. Diplomats can travel faster or may be immune from military attacks or may even negotiate to bribe an army, but I do not believe they would impact the game in a negative way.

It could be a completely different game with no set in stone path way of winning the game, but I think the game would require more dynamics strategy in this way.

 

[JGuill65]

Your idea of "a diplomat had to be sent from hundreds of miles away" reminded me of something I do not like in any Civ game. A modern battleship could navigate around the earth in less than two years. At least I think that is true. I was in the Army, not the Navy. I think all ships should have greater movement, all transports should have a higher capacity, and some ships other than transports should carry a few military units. Marines, the peculiar bunch that they are, should be able to be launched from a battleship or destroyer, even if it is only one Marine unit. Explorers should be able to act as diplomats and should have some defensive ability or an escape maneuver. I like the Army units in Civ 3. The promotions in Civ 4 are difficult to obtain and do not have enough impact on future battles.

 

[Healz]

Actually that would probably be quite accurate that in an Asian Conflict where China switches to being aggressive that NATO and the UN may be drawn into the conflict as bodies that are trying to halt the Asians. Don't forget that the US is very committed to Taiwan and Japan in that area of the world. Therefore it is highly likely that the US would be drawn quite quickly into any Asian sabre rattling in that part of the world. Probably more a NATO role, but it is still quite real at the moment that a war could be brought to Asia by China and that the US and NATO countries could be involved. Don't forget that the US has been providing Military Hardware to Taiwan and Japan just recently in the form of Humvees, fighters and other equipment... Japan and Taiwan have bases for US warships in that part of the world. Therefore it is a likely scenario that any conflict in Asia could quickly escalate. After all we have the historical precedent of WWI starting in the Balkans, WWII starting over Poland. I predict that WWIII if it is the Chinese involved will start over the actions of either Taiwan or Japan... Japan at the moment isn't really on very happy terms with China over certain issues...

 

[exhile]

Why does it have to be realistic if it's in a game?

Well most of the units, wonders & technologies are from the past.

 

[SpArKpLuG]

Well most of the units, wonders & technologies are from the past.

Very true, but yesterday I played a game in which Gandi declared war on me. In Civ, anything is possible...

 

[exhile]

Actually that would probably be quite accurate that in an Asian Conflict where China switches to being aggressive that NATO and the UN may be drawn into the conflict as bodies that are trying to halt the Asians. Don't forget that the US is very committed to Taiwan and Japan in that area of the world. Therefore it is highly likely that the US would be drawn quite quickly into any Asian sabre rattling in that part of the world. Probably more a NATO role, but it is still quite real at the moment that a war could be brought to Asia by China and that the US and NATO countries could be involved. Don't forget that the US has been providing Military Hardware to Taiwan and Japan just recently in the form of Humvees, fighters and other equipment... Japan and Taiwan have bases for US warships in that part of the world. Therefore it is a likely scenario that any conflict in Asia could quickly escalate. After all we have the historical precedent of WWI starting in the Balkans, WWII starting over Poland. I predict that WWIII if it is the Chinese involved will start over the actions of either Taiwan or Japan... Japan at the moment isn't really on very happy terms with China over certain issues...

China is a permanent member of the security council. They can veto any resolution. As of recent, Taiwan & China just established direct flights. Taiwan has accepted a pair of pandas from China for display at the Taipei zoo. China has passed Germany & China in terms of PPP GDP and is set to take over Japan in nominal GDP in 2 years.

NATO was established to counter the Warsaw Pact & the Soviet Union. NATO is currently set against Russia. How the hell is China involved? Why would NATO be involved with China? Their borders are like thousands of miles a part.

Are you Japanese? Because if you aren't, I wouldn't talk.

 

[SpArKpLuG]

NATO was established to counter the Warsaw Pact & the Soviet Union. NATO is currently set against Russia. How the hell is China involved? Why would NATO be involved with China? Their borders are like thousands of miles a part.

All I'm saying is it would be a good WWIII scenerio if the Soviet Union didn't fall apart and COMECON started to attack western Europe and China attacked India or something.

 

[SpArKpLuG]

Happy New Year

 

[Tholish]

I would like to suggest that Civilization 5 should be based on a similar structure to Civilization IV, as in the C++ SDK, Python scripting, and XML. The reason is that so many people have taken the time to learn this structure and system and if it is retained more and better mods will come out sooner. The engine and core exe could change, the specific game design could be so much grander, but build on the best of the old system.

 

[SpArKpLuG]

I would like to suggest that Civilization 5 should be based on a similar structure to Civilization IV, as in the C++ SDK, Python scripting, and XML. The reason is that so many people have taken the time to learn this structure and system and if it is retained more and better mods will come out sooner. The engine and core exe could change, the specific game design could be so much grander, but build on the best of the old system.

Good idea, and I would also like to point out that introducing a new graphic and XML system would be a bit confusing seeing as some players (me) are still adjusting to the new system.

 

[Healz]

I am not Japanese but I read the newspapers and look at things. China is definately up to something. It relies on complacent people like Exile that aren't watching to accomplish things. This was the situation that happened before WWII, after WWII with the Russians and is happening now that China is trying to grow larger.

In a situation like a Chinese attack on Asia do you really think China's ability to veto things as a permanent member would mean anything? I doubt it because even recent permanent members may be kicked off the board for aggressive actions. China being a member of NATO is only fairly recent- it was after 1991 that China joined NATO and even then China still hasn't abandoned its regional claims to Taiwan...

It is interesting to note that throughout the Cold War Russia was not as afraid of NATO and the West as it was of the Chinese across the border. The only question in my mind is what China is waiting for to happen... I just don't exactly trust China not to be looking for ways to take advantage of the currency weakness in the US and Europe to attempt to accomplish the goal of unifying China with itself. China is looking like Communism is starting to collapse and so it will be attempting to provide something it can use to distract attention away from the cracks as we have seen before...

 

[SpArKpLuG]

The only question in my mind is what China is waiting for to happen... I just don't exactly trust China not to be looking for ways to take advantage of the currency weakness in the US and Europe to attempt to accomplish the goal of unifying China with itself. China is looking like Communism is starting to collapse and so it will be attempting to provide something it can use to distract attention away from the cracks as we have seen before...

That souns like an entrance to a WWIII scenerio

 

[exhile]

I am not Japanese but I read the newspapers and look at things. China is definately up to something. It relies on complacent people like Exile that aren't watching to accomplish things. This was the situation that happened before WWII, after WWII with the Russians and is happening now that China is trying to grow larger.

Can you elaborate on "this situation" and expand your definition of what "grow larger" means? China is modernizing it's cities such as the finished construction of the Shanghai World Financial Center and building the largest airport in the world, that being Beijing International. The opening ceremony of the 2008 Summer Olympics was magnificent. These examples are what I'd call "grow larger" and "up to something".

In a situation like a Chinese attack on Asia do you really think China's ability to veto things as a permanent member would mean anything? I doubt it because even recent permanent members may be kicked off the board for aggressive actions. China being a member of NATO is only fairly recent- it was after 1991 that China joined NATO and even then China still hasn't abandoned its regional claims to Taiwan...

The regional claim on Taiwan is the continuation of the civil war. China hasn't attacked any country for the past 25 years. Unlike the US who has attacked western Asia twice, with that being Iraq.

It is interesting to note that throughout the Cold War Russia was not as afraid of NATO and the West as it was of the Chinese across the border. The only question in my mind is what China is waiting for to happen... I just don't exactly trust China not to be looking for ways to take advantage of the currency weakness in the US and Europe to attempt to accomplish the goal of unifying China with itself. China is looking like Communism is starting to collapse and so it will be attempting to provide something it can use to distract attention away from the cracks as we have seen before...

China is waiting to "grow larger" by taking advantage of the currency weakness. Socialism is starting as communism collapses. It's happening as we speak and the world will pay attention for there is no distration than the accomplished goals of China.

 

[Healz]

Exhile you sound just like Chinese Propaganda. Wake up and smell the roses!!! Look at Tibet! If Tibet is not an example of China's goals I don't what is!!! Tibet is an example of China's policies: Cultural and Ethnic Genocide! China is destroying the monks slowly because it sees them as a threat. Why is that? Because Communism is one of those things that once you look behind it you see a hollow fascade that pays even worse lip service to the people than most other systems in the world. China has crushed those suggesting changes for the better to its system which would give people more of a voice in the system. Tinnamen Square, Anyone? No wonder they deny that ever happened because it would betray the truth even to their own people if they admitted it happened. Therefore deny it and hope enough of your citizens are gullible enough to believe your protestations of innocence.

Communism/Socialism is Government for the People by those that Know Best. It is a dictatorship by another name. China is one of those countries that still disappears people for non-violent protests against its policies. It is still happening recently. Just look up Amnesty Internationals list and you will find that a lot of those listed for China are really guilty of no crime except disagreeing with a dictatorship. I still don't think that China can be trusted...

The US in what you cite was doing jobs that needed to be done. These actions had been fully and fairly debated and set out on the table in an open and accountable house of Government. If those conflicts had been left we would have the same problems that led to WWI and WWII.

The fact that China hasn't claimed to openly attack any country for the past 25 years isn't a sign that they aren't still planning something. What I am meaning is that a lot of the Chinese slogans you read talk about expanding China's borders and China will grow larger. No Exile, you are not listening. The Olympic Games was a cover, a ruse. There is a historical precedent for this: look up the Munich Olympic Games of 1936 and you will understand the parallels. You look peaceful while planning the dagger for the West. China still hates the West even it pretends not to. Those that see China as peaceful are dreaming. China is like a sleeping wolf: peaceful at the moment while asleep but beware its bite...

You make a very bad mistake because all of this smells very much like Peace in Our Time and Appeasement. China in the past has shown signs of regional sabre rattling and it is doing it again, Exile. You can't say that China will be entirely peaceful towards its neighbours when it is doing its sabre rattling. China is a menace that will need to be stopped by actions rather than your swallowing of propaganda.

 

[SpArKpLuG]

Um, exhile, healz, this is a great discussion, but I'm not sure this is the place to be having it.

 

[Ghosts]

One of the most annoying features of CIV4 to me actually is the tech tree. I doubt ancient leaders had a hindsight view of all technologies that could exist or could be researched. The technologies shown on the tree were diffused into different geographic areas by cultural/commercial exchanges or through warfare. So, I'd like to see the tech tree completely disappear in Civ5 and have an unknown tech path that is decided by how you the player interact with other civilizations, use trade routes, spies, etc... Different CIVs could have different technologies and even "barbarians" can have their own technologies, maybe iron working.

Also I think the cultural aspect of the game should only apply to say barbarians who are influenced by a regions culture and eventually convert to it such as the ancient Assyrians who brought Ancient Mesopotamia to great heights or the Gauls that were eventually Romanized. It would make the game much more dynamic and realistic and enjoyable in one.

Furthermore, diplomats should be brought back, I mean it's very unrealistic for the player to just meet with another Civ leader by just clicking his/her name. Even the greatest diplomatic negotiations weren't done face to face instantly, such as the case between Saladin and Lionheart. Wars didn't just end by instantly negotiating, a diplomat had to be sent from hundreds of miles away just to negotiate peace and even if peace was decided it was unknown to a Civ's army until they received a message from their capital. Diplomats can travel faster or may be immune from military attacks or may even negotiate to bribe an army, but I do not believe they would impact the game in a negative way.

It could be a completely different game with no set in stone path way of winning the game, but I think the game would require more dynamics strategy in this way.

A nice chunk of that is already used in Medieval 2 total war and Rome total war.