Civilization 5

Well, had one anyway. And oddly enough it was about the new version of Civilization. In the new version, the battles were played out in ground level 3D style. Very cinimatic. Of course, the graphics were semi realistic animation, as it is now. The AI was almost human like, in that they didn't make stupid demands or refuse to trade something like Aesthetics with Philosophy, rather than making you give them Writing for it. Yes, I have a bone to pick about that, LOL.

Also, Declaring war on a neighbor after they make an offensive demand won't make war weariness as bad.

In addition, there could be some more intangibles added to the game. I like the fact that a marriage between two countries can either bring them together or turn into war, depending on the circumstances. Very realistic. There needs to be more of that in the new game.

I don't like the fact that when you make a peace treaty you are stuck to it for 20 turns. 10 turns is better. And what is it with a 10 turn treaty when you make a demand? That shouldn't be happening at all.

Regards.
 
Probably the best thing to add to this is more technologies and that there should actually be windows to view your cities from ground level like AoE 3 so you can see what is going on in this city.
 
Well, had one anyway. And oddly enough it was about the new version of Civilization. In the new version, the battles were played out in ground level 3D style. Very cinimatic. Of course, the graphics were semi realistic animation, as it is now. The AI was almost human like, in that they didn't make stupid demands or refuse to trade something like Aesthetics with Philosophy, rather than making you give them Writing for it. Yes, I have a bone to pick about that, LOL.

Sounds like a nightmare tbh.
 
I'd like to see unique great works. I mean they'd be like world wonders, would have a movie too, but they'd rather give cultural, great person and such bonuses. Of course only a great artist could create any of these.

There should be more barbarians (especially pirates on the seas!). There should be also not only individual units, but barbarian states as well (I mean historical states which were 'barbarians' throughout their whole history, like vikings). I don't know, maybe these states could be merged with the original civilization design, but they'd be far more aggressive and less concentrating on developing and such.

Vassal states should not always be friendly, and they should be able to start a revolution war against us.
Also, capitulating should not create simple vassal states but something more strict - e.g. we should be able to control whom they can trade with and so on. People love power. I do love power.

Now what about "auctions"? You can make an offer to multiple leaders at the same time, and they'd be constantly going lower and lower with their price to get the deal (of course only to a limit). This should be realistic, though, but would bring some more life in trading.

New civilizations should be: Hungary, Poland, Italy, Venezia (?), Denmark, Finland, Norwegia, Scotland, Ireland, Canada, Austria, Phoenicia (?), Iroquis, Apache, Sioux (yes, break up the native american stuff). There could be fully independent cities too.
Leader traits should be modified to a scaled thing. They'd still have the traits stuff, but they would have all traits and each of them would have a scale of three (or four or five?). That'd create some more diverse leaders.

A new great person: Great Admiral. Should behave like a Great General but on water. He should be also turned into a flagship which would be the most modern ship in the current era but have many extra bonuses (should be upgradeable to newer ship classes too, but with more cost).
Great Doctors? They could make clinics which have plus healthiness in the city and the cities close to it, and maybe some other bonus too. If joining a colony, they'd give + health and science.
Great Workers? I don't know whether we could find enough names for the game of this type, but if yes, they could create some factory with a huge production bonus. If joining a colony, they'd give + production and maybe + gold.
Great Prophets should be able to turn more cities in the vicinity to a chosen religion (wiping out every other religion, and consuming the unit). They could also add that religion to the cities.

Cities should be abandonable, but reinhabitable with some cost which increases with time. Like when England leaves a badly placed city, the German comes in and reoccupy it, paying 100 gold for the repairing of the not maintained city. These cities should disappear after some decades.

Tiles should have some diagonal features to hide some of the blocky nature of the terrain.
More types of tiles, depending on altitude: lowland, plains, low/high hills, low/high mountains. Cannon-eating marshes would be welcomed too.
Rivers should be not between the tiles but tiles themselves. This would (of course) require much bigger maps (so let there be a possibility to return to the old "between-tiles-is-a-river" version) but would make bridge building more fun. You could choose the type of the bridge and have workers work on it.
New terraforming possibilities: tile converting (like desert into plains) -> requires much gold and workforce, and isn't very effective at early ages. With water workers (either normal workers on any transport or with a new worker type?). You could play holland: surround the wanted are with plains or hills, and you have an inland sea. You only have to get the water out of it somehow.
You could build dams. You get some workers, specify the line of the dam, and let them work.
Planting forests should be in the game too.
Canals canals canals!

Accelerated tectonics to make landscape change. You could choose the rate of acceleration in the settings. It's still a slow process.

Roads should have some negative impact (unhealthiness?) to prevent road spawling all over the place, it's very ugly and prevents me from blocking trade routes without a huge army.

Eras: stone age, bronze age, iron age, classic age, renessaince age, (classicism?), industrialism, modern age, nuke age, future age.

Natural disasters (earthquakes, volcanoes, cunamis, asteroids and everything) with graphical representation! Having a message "your countryside was destroyed by a previously dormant volcanoe" is bad. Maybe have a movie like in the world wonders (immersing), maybe not (violating... just think about burning and screaming people near an erupting volcanoe?).

We should be able to name a place when we discover it (like seas, oceans, mountains, and so on). The game would use these names when describing a location (like "your Division 842A Cavalry has been destroyed at the east coasts of Loch Ness!"). You can rename anything ever in your territory (consequently you can change a conquested civilization's names too).

Should be able to create own religions, corporations and organisations (like the UN). When discovering a certain tech, you'd be asked if create a new one of these.
-RELIGIONS-
You can create a new religion any time (after discovering Mysticism the least), but you require a great prophet to do so. You can specify it's name, maybe choose a sign for it, and specify at most five or six properties, with positive and negative effects in balance. These effects could affect the religions spreading rate, be production bonus (either for hammers or breads), health or happiness bonus, and so on. The AI would be creative when naming religions too.
When changing religions, the old ones could slowly disappear, depending how central the city is (I'm not sure about this one).
-CORPORATIONS-
The same as religions, only you need various great people. Like when you have a Great Artist, you could create a cultural corporation, when you have a Great Spy, you could create a spying corporation and so on.
-ORGANISATIONS-
Only a Great Diplomat could create one of these (that unit can also be used for various diplomatic effect, like gaining +10 attitude with a leader). You can specify it's name, maybe a sign too. There are the following details to decide:
Who can join? (inviting, requesting, religion based, civic based)
Joining optional?
Number of leaders (they can defy the resolution, so be careful with many leaders!)
Choosing the leaders (choosing every 'n' turn, no choosing at all, or choosing when certain effect happens (e.g. the original leader goes to war for a peacekeeping organisation).
Vote number (equal, army size, population, land area, power, religious population and so on).
What can it affect? (commerce, war, army stuff, civics, land area, etc)
You could also change these things when the organisation exists but you have to make a vote, and if the majority doesn't agree with it, it won't be done.
The AI names these well just like the religions.

Open Border agreements should have levels:
1.) commerce only
2.) domestic units and explorer units (settler, worker, etc)
3.) military units
Also they shouldn't have to be signed from both sides. I mean, you can pay for open borders with a big amount of gold per turn or something like that.

You could mix immediate trades with turn-based trades. Like you pay for a technology with a resource for 'n' turns specified by the other party.

ADDITION #1: the AI should stop making me tear my hair out! When I get a well-defended city on its knees, and I only have to kill the last (badly injured) defender(s), my vassal comes in with his army (a little too late, doesn't he?) and takes MY city! Disgusting! Make them feel like a little more comradeish, program them so they will HELP me and not virtually fight me. Also let me declare war on them (with a 10 or 20 turn peace treaty).
Yes, I know I could have told them go away from that city by ordering them. I just didn't feel like setting targets for seven vassals. Still, this need to be fixed. Maybe make "comradity" a trait too.

ADDITION #2: about training soldiers: we'd need an Armory building to store various weapons (comes very early in the game). Making weapons (100 at a time) is produced by the normal way (hammers). Then if we have enough weapon in a city with enough population, we can click on a button like the Draft one, choose the unit type (or press cancel), and voila! population is converted into soldiers with weapons. Of course we need to be able to carry the weapons. Maybe with some new land transport unit (caravan?).
Also, be able to reverse the process: it'd be fantastic to make soldiers take down their weapons into the armory and convert back to normal population. This way you won't have a million army if you don't need it, but will be able to quickly recruit it when needed. I don't know how this would work with the promotions: when the soldiers lose them if converted back into population, maybe players won't convert them back. Multipling the unit support cost with two-three could help (that way having an army will be quite expensive, so making them retire would let the economy recover a little bit).
Mechanized armies should be produced still the old way (I think it's rather obvious).

Much more resources! Make wood a resource, too. Make resources depletable. The forests will be depletable too, but unless any other resource, it'll recover if not chopped too many trees down. This gives a maximum in the productivity of a forest, of course.
This system will change the game experience at it's base. Of course make more resource places unless you want to deplete them before 1000 AD.
I have an idea for liquid sources (like oil or gas). There should be a resource map, or easier: make the "Show resources" flag display e.g. oil sources with black lines. This area is constantly going together until there is no more left. You can hurry up the production of oil by building more oil towers but of course the oil will run out faster.

ADDITION #3: now I'm pretty unsure about this idea, but what about a "Ruler" unit? It represents YOU. It should have a low movement range and no fighting abilities at all. It's name changes according to the civics (like from Dictator Montezuma to Representative Montezuma, you get the idea). When it gets captured (like a worker or a settler), you can either kill him/her, imprison him/her, request a ransom for him/her or simply let him/her go.
If you lose your Ruler unit, you'll get a new one in some rounds (it's random, but has min and max) WITH CHANGED AND RANDOM TRAITS (not fully random, your civilization's attributes and current state affect it greatly), until then your country is in anarchy and maybe you can't even command your army (should they follow last orders?). So you better make sure to protect him/her well!
Also, make videos about this! And real-time videos, not prerendered! When you decide what to do, the video occur. I mean, you are sitting on your trone... then your guards are bringing the fallen ruler to you... you look at him with anger, hatred and pure evil... then you stand up, get your sword... The rest of the video should be censured :)
But, this'd make destroying civilizations a little more fun in my opinion. And if you really hated that person (e.g. he captured 30 worker of yours, or whatever), then it'll be statisfaction. Or you can be merciful and just exile him. I may don't have to mention that your decision will have an effect on the other leaders too. Maybe they'll fear you if you execute one of their rival with brutality, so they'll become your vassal, but (as Yoda said) fear brings hatred => they'll dislike you too.
If you didn't like this idea, what about a simpler one: if you destroy his/her last city, then you get to decide his/her fate, and watch the video.
My point is, make the end of an other civilization more... rewarding. Saying "the xyz civilization is wiped out" is not rewarding. Just let me kill Brennus if I want to.

ADDITION #4:
Those pathetic three on three (or even less) fights are just ridicilous. I want 100 units battling with 100 units! Without a bug. The retreat chances should be increased - I don't believe that soldiers can't just run! The chance should depend on the formation (it was already discussed here, I don't want to write it down again).

The victory videos should be also much more rewarding. The diplomatic victory makes me feel angry. The conquest video is better, but still some improvements could be made.

The speed of the time should NOT change. Or at least be able to turn it off.

Make bigger, bigger maps! And that 18 civilizations limit should be turned off! Not as if my computer weren't sweating from a huge map at the end already, but why can't we have 36, or even 72 civs at one time? Well, maybe 72 is a little too much, considering how slow it already is with 18, but if there is no system limits to this (like it'd cause bugs with more civs), then why not?
Model the whole world with high detail. You could choose the location on a globus kind of thing. You just drag a rectangle over the globus (could be rotated, zoomed, and so on), then you can play.

More world wonders if making bigger maps. Also, when a wonder is completed "far away" before we did, then be able to invest the lost hammer into another building or mech unit or weapon (with a penalty of course, maybe 25-40% should be lost). Imagine: you were building something, but you couldn't finish. Can't you use the parts for something else? The lost hammers represent the work used to convert these parts to the right ones. Of course the lost hammers could be still converted to gold, without loss.

Harbors could be built at riversides.

New buildings: Cinema (modern colosseum), Sewers (behaves like public transportation), School (a smaller University, comes earlier into game), Museum (behaves like Library).
New world wonders: The Leaning Tower of Pisa, The Colosseum
New national wonders: Space Station (increases research by at least 20% but is quite expensive to build)
The Manhattan project should give me its creator some bonus for nukes.

Olympics! Every n turn there is an olympic arranged. There is a built-in organisation to do this. The overall health multiplied with the population of your civilization counts into your vote number. Only those who have an Olympic Stadion (a national wonder) may be voted on. When you win, you'll get a big happiness and trade bonus, but the effect fades over the time. The Stadion could still generate some culture and maybe some great person rate.

Be able to transport people from one city to another, like if you have a farmer city with huge overcrowding, and you want to get those people to a new, empty, industrial city, then do it! Also be able to transport food (breads) with the new transport units.

New civic type: Ethnic. It represents how you behave to foreign people in your cities. The first one should be Racism, which decreases the rate foreigns keep coming in your cities, then there is cosmopolitism (the opposite), and so on.

New border rules! You would have to negotiate for your borders. Cultural borders only counts until your borders "crash". This'd need a revise of the current culture system, because culture doesn't raise the number of your men living in a foreign city. Maybe you could brainstorm over this, I'm tired right now to do so.

Back to terraforming: you could cut a hole in the ground, making sea to flood the lowlands (but only the lowlands!). This could give an excellent new weapon to DESTROY civilizations living on lowlands next to the sea and having natural or artifical dams. And this comes early in the game (but requires tons of workers working for a long time to complete). Maybe this will cause balancing problems?
Two kinds of marshes, a light and a heavy one. The first is not very deadly, but still can "eat" your heavier troops. A knight still can trespass that area, but a tank may not. The heavy one can devour all but your lightest units. So a bronze age civilization can still survive from a modern armor attack (in Civ4 it can't really) if surrounded by marshes.

POSTSCRIPTUM: now I have to buy a new keyboard, this one is frayed :) please comment the ideas I was unsure of, I'm curious what you think about them.
 
I'd like to see unique great works. I mean they'd be like world wonders, would have a movie too, but they'd rather give cultural, great person and such bonuses. Of course only a great artist could create any of these.

There should be more barbarians (especially pirates on the seas!). There should be also not only individual units, but barbarian states as well (I mean historical states which were 'barbarians' throughout their whole history, like vikings). I don't know, maybe these states could be merged with the original civilization design, but they'd be far more aggressive and less concentrating on developing and such.

Vassal states should not always be friendly, and they should be able to start a revolution war against us.
Also, capitulating should not create simple vassal states but something more strict - e.g. we should be able to control whom they can trade with and so on. People love power.

Now what about "auctions"? You can make an offer to multiple leaders at the same time, and they'd be constantly going lower and lower with their price to get the deal (of course only to a limit). This should be realistic, though, but would bring some more life in trading.

New civilizations should be: Hungary, Poland, Italy, Venezia (?), Denmark, Finland, Norwegia, Scotland, Ireland, Canada, Austria, Phoenicia (?), Iroquis, Apache, Sioux (yes, break up the native american stuff). There could be fully independent cities too.
Leader traits should be modified to a scaled thing. They'd still have the traits stuff, but they would have all traits and each of them would have a scale of three (or four or five?). That'd create some more diverse leaders.

A new great person: Great Admiral. Should behave like a Great General but on water. He should be also turned into a flagship which would be the most modern ship in the current era but have many extra bonuses (should be upgradeable to newer ship classes too, but with more cost).
Great Doctors? They could make clinics which have plus healthiness in the city and the cities close to it, and maybe some other bonus too. If joining a colony, they'd give + health and science.
Great Workers? I don't know whether we could find enough names for the game of this type, but if yes, they could create some factory with a huge production bonus. If joining a colony, they'd give + production and maybe + gold.
Great Prophets should be able to turn more cities in the vicinity to a chosen religion (wiping out every other religion, and consuming the unit). They could also add that religion to the cities.

Cities should be abandonable, but reinhabitable with some cost which increases with time. Like when England leaves a badly placed city, the German comes in and reoccupy it, paying 100 gold for the repairing of the not maintained city. These cities should disappear after some decades.

Tiles should have some diagonal features to hide some of the blocky nature of the terrain.
More types of tiles, depending on altitude: lowland, plains, low/high hills, low/high mountains. Cannon-eating marshes would be welcomed too.
Rivers should be not between the tiles but tiles themselves. This would (of course) require much bigger maps (so let there be a possibility to return to the old "between-tiles-is-a-river" version) but would make bridge building more fun. You could choose the type of the bridge and have workers work on it.
New terraforming possibilities: tile converting (like desert into plains) -> requires much gold and workforce, and isn't very effective at early ages. With water workers (either normal workers on any transport or with a new worker type?). You could play holland: surround the wanted are with plains or hills, and you have an inland sea. You only have to get the water out of it somehow.
You could build dams. You get some workers, specify the line of the dam, and let them work.
Planting forests should be in the game too.
Canals canals canals!

Accelerated tectonics to make landscape change. You could choose the rate of acceleration in the settings. It's still a slow process.

Roads should have some negative impact (unhealthiness?) to prevent road spawling all over the place, it's very ugly and prevents me from blocking trade routes without a huge army.

Eras: stone age, bronze age, iron age, classic age, renessaince age, (classicism?), industrialism, modern age, nuke age, future age.

Natural disasters (earthquakes, volcanoes, cunamis, asteroids and everything) with graphical representation! Having a message "your countryside was destroyed by a previously dormant volcanoe" is bad. Maybe have a movie like in the world wonders (immersing), maybe not (violating... just think about burning and screaming people near an erupting volcanoe?).

We should be able to name a place when we discover it (like seas, oceans, mountains, and so on). The game would use these names when describing a location (like "your Division 842A Cavalry has been destroyed at the east coasts of Loch Ness!"). You can rename anything ever in your territory (consequently you can change a conquested civilization's names too).

Should be able to create own religions, corporations and organisations (like the UN). When discovering a certain tech, you'd be asked if create a new one of these.
-RELIGIONS-
You can create a new religion any time (after discovering Mysticism the least), but you require a great prophet to do so. You can specify it's name, maybe choose a sign for it, and specify at most five or six properties, with positive and negative effects in balance. These effects could affect the religions spreading rate, be production bonus (either for hammers or breads), health or happiness bonus, and so on. The AI would be creative when naming religions too.
When changing religions, the old ones could slowly disappear, depending how central the city is (I'm not sure about this one).
-CORPORATIONS-
The same as religions, only you need various great people. Like when you have a Great Artist, you could create a cultural corporation, when you have a Great Spy, you could create a spying corporation and so on.
-ORGANISATIONS-
Only a Great Diplomat could create one of these (that unit can also be used for various diplomatic effect, like gaining +10 attitude with a leader). You can specify it's name, maybe a sign too. There are the following details to decide:
Who can join? (inviting, requesting, religion based, civic based)
Joining optional?
Number of leaders (they can defy the resolution, so be careful with many leaders!)
Choosing the leaders (choosing every 'n' turn, no choosing at all, or choosing when certain effect happens (e.g. the original leader goes to war for a peacekeeping organisation).
Vote number (equal, army size, population, land area, power, religious population and so on).
What can it affect? (commerce, war, army stuff, civics, land area, etc)
You could also change these things when the organisation exists but you have to make a vote, and if the majority doesn't agree with it, it won't be done.
The AI names these well just like the religions.

Open Border agreements should have levels:
1.) commerce only
2.) domestic units and explorer units (settler, worker, etc)
3.) military units
Also they shouldn't have to be signed from both sides. I mean, you can pay for open borders with a big amount of gold per turn or something like that.

You could mix immediate trades with turn-based trades. Like you pay for a technology with a resource for 'n' turns specified by the other party.

Awesome ideas really, like you could form a NATO or a WARSAW Pact type of thing, and I've always wanted dynamic religions.

Also after war you should be able to deem certain cities under mlitary occupation and the original govt. controls those cities but you have soldiers there and any lands that that city can work, and you can't be expelled from that land after declaration of war.
 
I'd like to see unique great works. I mean they'd be like world wonders, would have a movie too, but they'd rather give cultural, great person and such bonuses. Of course only a great artist could create any of these.

I'm neutral on this one, so long as the silly movies can be switched off and not interrupt my gaming experience.

There should be more barbarians (especially pirates on the seas!).

Agreed. Barbarians upgrading through time is one of these things that was got right as far back as Civ 2 and messed up thereafter.

There should be also not only individual units, but barbarian states as well (I mean historical states which were 'barbarians' throughout their whole history, like vikings). I don't know, maybe these states could be merged with the original civilization design, but they'd be far more aggressive and less concentrating on developing and such.

I'm neutral on this one too; it depends on what use they are as a resource, really.

Also, capitulating should not create simple vassal states but something more strict - e.g. we should be able to control whom they can trade with and so on. People love power.

Agreed.

Now what about "auctions"? You can make an offer to multiple leaders at the same time, and they'd be constantly going lower and lower with their price to get the deal (of course only to a limit). This should be realistic, though, but would bring some more life in trading.

Definitely agreed; though I suspect it won't fly, for the same reason as several of the Civ 3 trade options are not in Civ 4 - because the AI can't be made smart enough to handle them as well as a human and this is considered an exploit.

New civilizations should be: Hungary, Poland, Italy, Venezia (?), Denmark, Finland, Norwegia, Scotland, Ireland, Canada, Austria, Phoenicia (?), Iroquis, Apache, Sioux

In an ideal world, the civilisations would just be Yellow, Green, Orange, Purple etc. and there'd be none of the back and forth about which civs are historically like what and who wants which ones to be in and all that "realism" stuff that is not thinking primarily in terms of gameplay; but I don't think anyone agrees with me on this. It would still be nice as an option, though.

Leader traits should be modified to a scaled thing. They'd still have the traits stuff, but they would have all traits and each of them would have a scale of three (or four or five?). That'd create some more diverse leaders.

That heads somewhat in the direction of my preference for leaders/countries being distinct by preferred strategies rather than traits, I think, so maybe.

Cities should be abandonable, but reinhabitable with some cost which increases with time. Like when England leaves a badly placed city, the German comes in and reoccupy it, paying 100 gold for the repairing of the not maintained city. These cities should disappear after some decades.

Hmm. I strongly favour workers and settlers costing population and cities being effectively abandonable that way, but this is an interesting notion. I think I would prefer, in that sitation, if I were England, to have the options either of trading the city to the Germans for something or of erasing it to leave scorched earth behind, depnding on how friendly I feel to them.

New terraforming possibilities: tile converting (like desert into plains) -> requires much gold and workforce, and isn't very effective at early ages. With water workers (either normal workers on any transport or with a new worker type?).

Very strongly agreed.

Planting forests should be in the game too.

Still hate that that was taken out of Civ IV.

Canals canals canals!

Oh yes.

Roads should have some negative impact (unhealthiness?) to prevent road spawling all over the place, it's very ugly and prevents me from blocking trade routes without a huge army.

Strongly disagreed; unless the map gets down to squares of a mile on a side or so, pretty much every square should be roaded and get benefits from it. Though being able to get late-game "parkland" benefits from a square you have never developed at all would also be a cool choice to have to make.

Eras: stone age, bronze age, iron age, classic age, renessaince age, (classicism?), industrialism, modern age, nuke age, future age.

I think that leans rather too havgily on early game, particularly if you want the techs split more or less evenly; I would go for Ancient, Classical, Medieval, Renaissance, Industrial, Modern (being first half of twentieth century), Space Age, and a couple of optional future ages, myself.

Natural disasters (earthquakes, volcanoes, cunamis, asteroids and everything) with graphical representation! Having a message "your countryside was destroyed by a previously dormant volcanoe" is bad. Maybe have a movie like in the world wonders (immersing), maybe not (violating... just think about burning and screaming people near an erupting volcanoe?).

I absolutely do not want random natural disasters in. At all.

We should be able to name a place when we discover it (like seas, oceans, mountains, and so on). The game would use these names when describing a location (like "your Division 842A Cavalry has been destroyed at the east coasts of Loch Ness!"). You can rename anything ever in your territory (consequently you can change a conquested civilization's names too).

I don't care about this one way or the other; would never do it myself.

-RELIGIONS-
You can create a new religion any time (after discovering Mysticism the least), but you require a great prophet to do so. You can specify it's name, maybe choose a sign for it, and specify at most five or six properties, with positive and negative effects in balance.

I don't actually believe it would be possible to come up with a workable set of options here that produce a reasonable range of genuinely balanced religions, though if it were I would be happy to give it a try.

When changing religions, the old ones could slowly disappear, depending how central the city is (I'm not sure about this one).

Religion should be managed citizen-by-citizen, which would allow for this effect to be modelled fairly easily.

Open Border agreements should have levels:
1.) commerce only
2.) domestic units and explorer units (settler, worker, etc)
3.) military units
Also they shouldn't have to be signed from both sides. I mean, you can pay for open borders with a big amount of gold per turn or something like that.

Strongly agreed. Particularly, if you've just hammered the Aztecs at war, you should be able to demand that they give your units free passage on their land without letting their units have free passage on yours.

ADDITION #2: about training soldiers: we'd need an Armory building to store various weapons (comes very early in the game). Making weapons (100 at a time) is produced by the normal way (hammers). Then if we have enough weapon in a city with enough population, we can click on a button like the Draft one, choose the unit type (or press cancel), and voila! population is converted into soldiers with weapons. Of course we need to be able to carry the weapons. Maybe with some new land transport unit (caravan?).

Doesn't appeal to me; I'd rather just keep building units.

This way you won't have a million army if you don't need it, but will be able to quickly recruit it when needed.

I'd rather have the choice between keeping a big standing army and not having defenders when you need them have more teeth than that.

I don't know how this would work with the promotions: when the soldiers lose them if converted back into population, maybe players won't convert them back.

Well, we could get around that by scrapping the promotion system.

ADDITION #3: now I'm pretty unsure about this idea, but what about a "Ruler" unit? It represents YOU. It should have a low movement range and no fighting abilities at all. It's name changes according to the civics (like from Dictator Montezuma to Representative Montezuma, you get the idea). When it gets captured (like a worker or a settler), you can either kill him/her, imprison him/her, request a ransom for him/her or simply let him/her go.
If you lose your Ruler unit, you'll get a new one in some rounds (it's random, but has min and max) WITH CHANGED AND RANDOM TRAITS

Absolutely not. I'm not playing the ruler; I am playing the civilisation.

Also, make videos about this! And real-time videos, not prerendered!

What a colossal amount of effort to waste on bells and whistles when there is gameplay to be developed.

My point is, make the end of an other civilization more... rewarding. Saying "the xyz civilization is wiped out" is not rewarding.

Gosh. People do vary very widely; I find that immensely rewarding.
 
Also, I think like promotions should not just be chosen by the players. You still promote a unit every 2,5,10, etc EXP points, but if your axeman just knocks out three horse archers, you should get an automatic promotion against mounted units...just like people learn through pratice.
 
Awesome ideas really, like you could form a NATO or a WARSAW Pact type of thing, and I've always wanted dynamic religions.
Those aren't my ideas, I have to note.
Definitely agreed; though I suspect it won't fly, for the same reason as several of the Civ 3 trade options are not in Civ 4 - because the AI can't be made smart enough to handle them as well as a human and this is considered an exploit.
Yes, the AI should be improved by a huge lot too, and throw out their stupid demands like "come to war", "stop trading or blahblah". It's rather annoying than realistic. I'd also love if they weren't just sitting on their rear if I move a hundred tanks around their borders...
What a colossal amount of effort to waste on bells and whistles when there is gameplay to be developed.
Yes I know some of these ideas require way too much work, I still want them. Of course gameplay is before everything.
In an ideal world, the civilisations would just be Yellow, Green, Orange, Purple etc. and there'd be none of the back and forth about which civs are historically like what and who wants which ones to be in and all that "realism" stuff that is not thinking primarily in terms of gameplay; but I don't think anyone agrees with me on this. It would still be nice as an option, though.
Taking out civilizations and playing with just "colors"... they'd not personal. Altough it could be an option.
Strongly disagreed; unless the map gets down to squares of a mile on a side or so, pretty much every square should be roaded and get benefits from it. Though being able to get late-game "parkland" benefits from a square you have never developed at all would also be a cool choice to have to make.
I wrote that maps would get much bigger, also that rivers are one or more tile width, so this could be made... of course there could be some maps where rivers are the same as now, and their size would depend on the map's resolution of course. It wouldn't be too fun for the computer to display a world standing out of 80 000 x 80 000 tiles (500 m each tile, so a big river could be at most two tiles width), would it?
I want the rivers 1st) be shippable (this would add new tactics to the game) 2nd) flow, so going up would cost more while going down would cost less.
I think that leans rather too havgily on early game, particularly if you want the techs split more or less evenly; I would go for Ancient, Classical, Medieval, Renaissance, Industrial, Modern (being first half of twentieth century), Space Age, and a couple of optional future ages, myself.
Yes, maybe stone age was a little too optimistic about how many techs it could have. Anyway, have longer early times.
Doesn't appeal to me; I'd rather just keep building units.
Yes that's simpler, but what kind of sense does that make if you make soldiers out of nothing? And it also makes unrealistic situations like I have a population of three billion and still can't fight a two million pop. civilization because they have way more hammers than me.
To lean towards your appeal: what about if there are no weapons, and producing units require slightly less hammers, however they cost population?

Also, I think like promotions should not just be chosen by the players. You still promote a unit every 2,5,10, etc EXP points, but if your axeman just knocks out three horse archers, you should get an automatic promotion against mounted units...just like people learn through pratice.
I agree. This way I couldn't have a unit fighting lions and panthers for decades promoted with city attack, quite unrealistic.

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Sid's Tips should improve very much. I really hate if it constantly writes "sire, xyz is rightfully asking to join the abc empire. Allowing them to do so would make efg quite pleased with us!", when that civilization is nowhere near that city, and have absolutely no population in it. So stop that! It happened that I accidentally pressed on the "yes, do so on the next opportunity". Of course it was a big and productive city - I was quite angry then...

With big maps with hundreds of cities, cities wouldn't worth that much. So make AI trade them more easily - currently they don't trade them even if I'm about to squash them - they don't stand a chance - and this'd be the price of the peace. Of course we need small maps too.

More city names! For bigger maps this is necessity. I don't believe that you can't find more than 50 (don't know exactly) city names for a currently existing civilization! For mayas, incas, and such civs I understand, but... just look at a map please! It's ugly when I run out of names and get Boston for Aztecs, possible next to the first Boston if americans are my neighbours.

I don't know if something could be made with colors, but it's next to impossible to see the actual borders in certain situations. I loved it when I played Mehmed II, and two of my neighbours were Zara Yaqob and Joao II. Now all of them are green with only one or two tone difference, just cool, strain your eyes :)
And why isn't there a pink civilization? :) Not as if I wanted it too much, just wondering, that could give three or four more civ colors.

ADDITION #1: more variety of quests, and please, detect the abilities of a civilization before giving it a quest. I had one city near the sea and I was given the Harbormaster quest (and I couldn't expand unless war). Funny.

More leaders for everyone! E.g. Spain has only Isabella? That's funny. I know it's much work.
Leaders also should change with the time. Half-naked Montezuma in the future age looks ridicilous. Their backgrounds should change too according to the current era. This isn't that important, just have more leaders!

More unique stuff for civs too - two UU and two UB perhaps?

ADDITION #2: dynamic civilization start at any age. The bigger maps prevent to be inhabited fully until a long time so there is place for them to start.

What about the stability thing included in the Rhyes and Falls mod? I couldn't get that mod working, but would like to check it out. It could be also a leader trait - how much can he hold his country together. When stability falls, a new (same nationality) country would rise from your lands. Government buildings should increase the stability, while expanding too much would decrease.

No more predefined difficulty types (or only in background) - you need to set it by several aspects. Starting position, resourcefulness, and so on. Setting the custom games could also be more precise. No barbarians, a few, or many? No! Let me just use a slider between 'no barbarians' and a terrible amount.
Also, the custom map generator's settings should also expand to make me able to set my maps better (with larger maps, this will become important).

ADDITION #3: maybe breaking up native americans weren't such a good idea since they haven't had cities (or so few that it just isn't enough). So keep the native americans stuff, but give them more leaders nevertheless (what about Winnetou or Csingacsguk? :) ).

Nukes should be way more powerful. I nuke a city and everyone is just injured in it? C'mon, make it a weapon capable of destroying entire cities (I mean the ICBM, the tactical nukes should still be weak). And maybe give them more diplomatic penalty. The target should say "You nuked us! -4" while his friends "You nuked our friends! -3", neutrals "You nuked our rival! -2", and hostiles "You nuked our rival! -1" (since they fear you, that's why the -1).

Trading: be able to take on loans from eachother. The attributes of the loan should be dynamic of course. So if you desperately need money (because, say, you are going to go bankrupt for overexpanding), you can get some. Of course paying back is harder.

ADDITION #4: what about multiple buildings at once? Say, you can build an aquaduct for every fifth population (we need some limitations, unless we don't want 100 markets in a city to generate gold gold gold). Of course there should be buildings which you can't build more than one, like Walls.
Talking about aquaducts, their source of water should have a limitation too. Like you can't build six aquaducts for a stream. Maybe you should be able to set where the aquaducts goes whenever you created one. Or define its route before starting the creation, making production time more or less depending on its length. It might be good if this would be only an option, and you could be able to make the computer decide its route, since not everyone likes micromanagement.

Ships should be faster, at least by 3/2.

There should be a simple Alliance thing, it's the same as Permanent Alliances, only not permanent.

Culture would be quite useless if we used the "negotiated borders" thing (they'd be only good for reaching the legendary culture or something). So make them generate tourism. With every culture level you gain +1 trade route, for example. This way generating culture would be rewarding enough.

Plagues could bring some variety in the game too. It has been already discussed.
 
You know what's always bothered me? The fact that I can give my own civ a custom name, but not the other civs! And I like the dynamic religions idea, I was going to suggest adding religions like Zoroastrianism and Sikhism, but that is a much better idea. Also, I think that there should not be vassal states. Instead, have two "vassal" states: Commonwealths (independent yet influenced by your control) and Colonies (not independent and under your direct control). Both should be able to revolt, under some set conditions that make them want to. Which leads me to my next idea; taxation. What happened to the ability to set tax levels? I don't want a set income, or an income I can only influence indirectly, I want to be able to set taxes! And I agree, maps should be bigger and able to support more civs. Although, being a programmer and computer geek myself, I agree that a few years should be taken for brainstorming, and to allow computer technology to advance a little, as even 4gigs of RAM may not be enough to support 32 civilizations on a gigantic map. And borders and terrains should be less blocky, I agree. The only borders I've ever seen appear like that are those of the United States, but no where else. I think that overall this game would be much better with more customization; make custom civs, religions, corporations, and maybe even wonders.

Also, more resources. Salt, tea, tobacco, hemp, cotton, rubber (rubber trees), and bamboo have all been very important resources throughout human history, and some have even had wars fought over them. And also, certain resources, when both available (or added with a technology), should create new resources. For instance, coal and iron should make steel, and oil and ecology should make solar energy (build an improvement to collect it). And seriously, a little common sense in the whole culture-resource relations. Why would Hindu people harvest cows for food, when they view them as sacred? Instead of a food bonus, it should provide a culture bonus.
 
I agree that a few years should be taken for brainstorming, and to allow computer technology to advance a little, as even 4gigs of RAM may not be enough to support 32 civilizations on a gigantic map.
Considering all the graphics are in the video memory, I made some calculations.
Now we have a 400x400 map. Its a two-dimensional array, basically, having records representating each tiles with the following properties: whose territory is that tile, resource type, terrain type, terrain type layer 2 (forest, oasis, and so on), a pointer to the city on that tile, the type of improvement. The first four can be made of bytes, making it 4 bytes. The pointer costs additional 4 bytes, the tile improvement 1 byte, and if there is a fog over it (1 byte), altogether 10 bytes. 400x400x10=160000 bytes - thats less than 160 kB. A 400x400 map!
A city consist a chained node of the buildings in it, its owner's ID, the health, happiness, unhealth and unhappiness rate (each with chained nodes, every node is a different type, having a string and a byte representating the text and the rate, thats around 40 bytes for each), the population, accesses for resources (or should it be generated dynamically?), the tiles under the city's occupation, all the workers and specialists, and the current production (and its state). The altogether productivity (like culture and stuff) can dynamically be calculated. That shouldn't be more than 2-3 kB's. Now on a giant (400x400) map there could be - say - 1000 cities, thats still hardly over 2-3 megabytes. I might left something out, though.
Storing all the units and their action lists... a unit with type (byte), promotions (chained node), name (string), action list (chained node), current health, max health, moves left, max moves, exp, level, and all that shouldn't be even one kB. So if you have 10 000 units (it's possible with 1000 cities), it's less than ten megabytes.
Civilizations... you need to store the leader's ID (or maybe it's name and traits), it's attitude toward all the other civilizations (with a chained node for the list what affected the relationships). You can also cache all its properties like crop yield, life expectancy and stuff, calculating them on the fly may be costly. I guess it could be done in a few megabytes if sparing a little, so with 32 civs it'd be 100 MB.
If it is 3D, then we also need to store models, their animations and also such things (or are they maintained in video memory? I never worked with 3D). But if it's nice flat 2D, or isometric, then it isn't requiring much memory. And besides, we don't need 3D at all costs.
The game's code should be less than 20 MB even with incredible AI.
Now I honestly don't know how much the AI needs. But it still can have around 100 MB on a (nowadays very weak) 512 MB memory PC with Windows XP (XP eats 256), and we didn't even talk about virtual memory.
Of course it can cache data not to have to recalculate them whenever you need them - it's still about a few megabytes.
It's almost midnight and I might made an error - if I left anything out worth more than 500 kB, please let me know. I tried to concentrate on things which require the most memory.

Why would Hindu people harvest cows for food, when they view them as sacred? Instead of a food bonus, it should provide a culture bonus.
Interesting idea, but that could hardly be balanced. Would you make pig useless to muslims?
 
Considering all the graphics are in the video memory . . .

Actually, the video memory doesn't hold the map or units or buildings or any of the game data, which is where the above post went with it.

The video memory limits things like the diversity of units. This is why some people have had trouble running mods like BAT which includes Varietas Delectat and other ethnic-unit/building graphics mods. But the video memory doesn't affect the size of map the computer can handle.

That's the domain of system RAM. And in most cases, the limiting factor isn't RAM but CPU performance. The larger the map, the longer path-searching algorithms take, the more AI decisions that have to be made, etc. This is why games slow to a crawl in the late game: more units.
 
That's the domain of system RAM. And in most cases, the limiting factor isn't RAM but CPU performance. The larger the map, the longer path-searching algorithms take, the more AI decisions that have to be made, etc. This is why games slow to a crawl in the late game: more units.

Now that explains why I can leave my Civilization 4 game to go out to my local 7-Eleven, buy a slurpee, come back and find that the algorithms of the AI has just finished their turn.

I think it's also important that the game can actually execute on the specified minimum requirements because Civilization 4 will be played on various types of hardware & software configurations.
 
I say an improvement to the game that i have been looking for ever since i started playing is civil war. I mean, most nations have gone through them, America, England, Russia and so on, so a civil war wouldn't be so unrealistic. I read on another forum that the anarchy after a civic change represents civil war, so why don't they act upon that. Say if one nation adopts representation after years of Hereditary Rule then cities in that civ who rely heavily on that revolt and they get 1 defensive unit and 1 offensive unit in each revolting city. And this can introduce dynamic names, say if France is in the situation as above, a French Kingdom is born as is a French Republic, then the winner of the civil war(the one who takes all the opposing cities) is declared the French Empire. I believe this would add realism to the game and with that you can see glorious empires crumble and new ones rise from the ashes.
 
Also, if we introduce a stability system as in Rhyes mod I think that would lead to civil war as well. Stability should not be judged nation wide, but by cities, so certain unstable cities would revolt. Of course, the stability of the city can be countered with increased happiness and military troops. Of course, this could lead to another problem, as the citizens of said city get angry with increased troops(Boston leading to revolution). I know this sounds like micromanagement but I also think that there should be a master city screen you can go to and send troops from one city to another and you can list most unstable cities from most to least. I don't know this crap just interests me.
 
Actually, the video memory doesn't hold the map or units or buildings or any of the game data, which is where the above post went with it.
Did I say it does? I said it holds the graphics - textures, models, images, and so on. Not the actual game data! That's of course in the system memory.

But the video memory doesn't affect the size of map the computer can handle.
True, I haven't disagreed with that.

That's the domain of system RAM. And in most cases, the limiting factor isn't RAM but CPU performance. The larger the map, the longer path-searching algorithms take, the more AI decisions that have to be made, etc. This is why games slow to a crawl in the late game: more units.
Yes. A huge map with 18 civs at the end takes 20-30 seconds or even more on my computer.
 
Did I say it does? I said it holds the graphics - textures, models, images, and so on. Not the actual game data! That's of course in the system memory.

You are correct. When you mentioned video memory and then laid out all the game data calculations, and then mentioned 512 MB below, I thought you were arguing that all that data for a 200x200 map could easily fit in the video memory. I apologize for the assumption.

In the end, your post supports my point that it's the CPU and not system memory that limits the size of the maps.

Yes. A huge map with 18 civs at the end takes 20-30 seconds or even more on my computer.

And many people love playing games with 34 civs. That'd take 30 seconds on the first turn! :rolleyes:
 
I apologize for the assumption.
No probs ;)
And many people love playing games with 34 civs. That'd take 30 seconds on the first turn!
A more modern CPU could handle 34 civs as well as mine 18 civs (mine is quite old). But I guess people playing games like Civ don't have nuclear power plants as computers (me neither) - something should be made with the speed issues. Getting rid of 3D would make Civ lose some players for sure, and making optional 2D (or rather isometric) is not as easy because you need two completely different systems to draw things (in isometric you also can't use the models, so you have to generate sprites of them for every angle which is painfully long time to do and so on). Also 3D is only draining your video card and stuff, so it's not hurting your CPU (at least not considerably). If the AI is to be improved, that's additional work to process every turn. If the programmers start to optimise the game too much to speed it up, it may lead to unexpected errors and crashes, undefined behavior of the program, also longer developement time and harder maintaining.
So the only way I see now is to buy a sixty core processor...
 
great ideas skallagrimson. my beef with civ is with the battles. they should have like a zoom in to battle where it changes to real time strategy similar to rise of nations. i just get so bored of collateral-damaging civs to death.
 
great ideas skallagrimson. my beef with civ is with the battles. they should have like a zoom in to battle where it changes to real time strategy similar to rise of nations. i just get so bored of collateral-damaging civs to death.
Only when it's optional, and you can press auto-battle without a second waste. It'd be rather interesting than fun - mixing different game styles is rarely working. Think - you play Civilization because you want to play a turn based strategy. There are a million RTS around which you can enjoy (or suffer from it). However if they can solve a quick troop selection and a fluid interface, I'd give it a try. Just keep it optional!

Other: there should be an option which turns the option 'Wait for end of turn' whenever in war, shouldn't be? I mean, I have to do that by myself every time I go to war.

Some AI improvement: they should use their Advanced start better. As far as I see it, they don't buy any technologies, even when I tried it with 500 000 gold. That makes Advanced start pretty useless above a gold limit (because you'll spend them on technologies, thus gaining huge, huge advantage).

ATTENTION: just received word from warpstorm that my calculations in the previous post were wrong, a 400x400 map would take up around 1,53 MB, not 160 kB (it was late when I wrote it...). Still, it's not bad I think.
And I have to tell that I wasn't calculating with Civ 4 datas but my own (yet non-existing) game's datas.
 
I'd like to see unique great works. I mean they'd be like world wonders, would have a movie too, but they'd rather give cultural, great person and such bonuses. Of course only a great artist could create any of these.

I especially agree with this, in a modified form: Unique National Wonders.

Some ideas:

Egypt: the Sphinx. 1 free Great Prophet, +2 trade routes in the city.

France: the Arc de Triomphe. 1 free Great General, +2 EP in the city.

America: Google. 1 free Great Scientist, + 2 trade routes.

...etc.
 
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