IdiotStyle
Prince
An image from the army commander XP tree, i've failed to see it anywhere else in gallery or this thread.
Civilization 7 - Army commanders
- Thread starter IdiotStyle
- Start date
tedhebert
Emperor
Adding to this, again from the quill video...
Most commander promotions seem to be directed to enhancing units... but some promotions shown are also directed to enhance something while the commander is NOT fighting. For example, when stationed in district, can enhance unit production %, or enhancing yield production in the city.
Pretty interesting
ehecatzin
Emperor
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2007
- Messages
- 1,560
Im really curious to see what civ will be the "improved commanders" civ. My bet so far is with the Mongols being able to add extra cavalry units to the commander. or Maybe one of the Napoleons will have the Grand Armee flavour.
ggmoyang
Emperor
Romans have Legatus which replaces army commanders, which have the ability to create a new Settlement after a set number of Promotions.
https://civilization.2k.com/civ-vii/game-guide/civilizations/rome/
ehecatzin
Emperor
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2007
- Messages
- 1,560
Oh I should have been more especific, the Legatus looks like it has expansion capabilities, I meant like a civ that boosts the fighting buffs or army capacity of a commander. (maybe it has them it's not clear from the description)
But now that you mention it, it would be so absolute incredible flavour if the legatus used a list of names from Republican Rome.
tedhebert
Emperor
Do we have any idea how MANY commanders we'll be able to field ? OR how we're going to get them ?
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2010
- Messages
- 17,494
According to Potato McWhiskey and SpiffingBrit's AMA, they didn't see a limit to how many you can have. They can be killed, but only temporarily, as the next one the player builds will be the same as the one they lost. They're probably eliminated at the end of the Age.
ggmoyang
Emperor
Discipline civic unlocks army commanders, and grants a free commander.
tedhebert
Emperor
Ah ok so they're built... I was afraid they would be gotten by a special action or bonus, a little like GGs in civ 6 !
Lonecat Nekophrodite
Deity
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2019
- Messages
- 2,060
yet gameplay vid still shows combat micro. @Boris Gudenuf often says the 'Millenial Kings and Queens wouldn't do micro combat at the battlefield level but instead left it to a field commander to do it, when or what to do. when to order archers to let loose arrows to enemy formations or barrelling down cavalry to enemies and which enemy units.'
it should be autocombat , but with commander being the only person who learns, and gain experiences into diversified fields of military mastery makes alot more sense, and would dictate how he commands his troops in a battlefield, though players decide his expertises is logical to me.
I don't think Queen LaAndromeda Promethium would yell at Marius Gaius in the frontline no
it should be autocombat , but with commander being the only person who learns, and gain experiences into diversified fields of military mastery makes alot more sense, and would dictate how he commands his troops in a battlefield, though players decide his expertises is logical to me.
I don't think Queen LaAndromeda Promethium would yell at Marius Gaius in the frontline no
I'm wondering the opposite - if they are potentially the only military units carried over, and all your other military units are not. But maybe no units are.
CladInShadows
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jul 2, 2008
- Messages
- 81
Having to micro combat as a leader drives me insane in modern 4Xs. They all seem to include 1UPT or instanced tactical battles that are so tedious. Why would the civilisation leader be giving commands to position individual units?
It's something that games like Stellaris and even Millenia get right with their simulated battles (Millenia's battle graphics aside...).
It's something that games like Stellaris and even Millenia get right with their simulated battles (Millenia's battle graphics aside...).
Last edited:
Boris Gudenuf
Deity
Requiring a Commander to form Armies (multiple-unit stacks) and move them is a mechanic that dates back to Frank Chadwick's (Game Designer's Workshop) elegant design for the board game Soldier Kings over 40 years ago. Cue the interest in adopting board game mechanics all too prevelant these days, but in this case it works: you can form all the units you want, but nobody before modern communications, technology and training has the command and control to move all of them around independently and be sure they will show up when and where you want them.
Note as an example that as late as the Seven Year's War, in Europe the war was fought largely by 5 armies: one each for Prussia, England ("His Britannic Majesty's Army in Germany" to be exact), France, Austria and Russia. Occasionally a subordinate independent force would exist briefly, but usually they were static garrisons or reinforcements marching up to add to the Main Army. So even the most modern Enlightenment States at that time had trouble forming, deploying and coordinating multiple forces of any size - and the largest of all those 'Main Armies' was well below 100,000 men.
It took the combination of mass conscription, industrial supplies, formal officer training (the first Officer Academies started in the mid-18th century, so very few graduates were available in the Seven Year's War), proper military Staff techniques and industrial organization techniques to produce armies in the Napoleonic Wars 50 years later that regularly exceeded 100,000 men, culminating in the Battle of Leipzig in 1813 when over a half-million men were on the field.
Want to bet between the second and third Ages in Civ VII there is a dramatic change in Armies and Combat?
As long as they are determined to include tactical combat in Civ VII (which I don't agree with, but I can live with if I have to) some questions remain:
1. Are Army Commanders named? And can I name them myself? I really want my Roman Commanders Nefarius Purpus, Scipio Apricatus and Miles Gloriosus or my Minor State Commander Atlatl the Hun.
2. I assume without having seen it yet that Naval Commanders for fleets and flotillas will also be included. What about Air Fleets? Assembling and using massed bomber fleets against enemy industry and cities took massive amounts of organization and logistics (note that only two nations, Britain and the USA, managed it in WWII) which would easily be modeled by requiring an Air Force Commander in the Third Age.
3. What kind of tactical sophistication will be included? Civ VI had flanking bonuses, what will Civ VII have? And will it be limited by the Army Commander talents? And will some Commanders from some Civs potentially have more and better? Cue Subotai, Davout and other very effective 'subordinate' Commanders in Mongolian and Imperial French armies; in other words, is there still a place for some kind of Great General/Commander bonuses in the mix?
4. How many Army Commanders can dance on the head of a battlefield? IF two armies combine somehow Who Commands and whose bonuses/talents are used in combat?
Note as an example that as late as the Seven Year's War, in Europe the war was fought largely by 5 armies: one each for Prussia, England ("His Britannic Majesty's Army in Germany" to be exact), France, Austria and Russia. Occasionally a subordinate independent force would exist briefly, but usually they were static garrisons or reinforcements marching up to add to the Main Army. So even the most modern Enlightenment States at that time had trouble forming, deploying and coordinating multiple forces of any size - and the largest of all those 'Main Armies' was well below 100,000 men.
It took the combination of mass conscription, industrial supplies, formal officer training (the first Officer Academies started in the mid-18th century, so very few graduates were available in the Seven Year's War), proper military Staff techniques and industrial organization techniques to produce armies in the Napoleonic Wars 50 years later that regularly exceeded 100,000 men, culminating in the Battle of Leipzig in 1813 when over a half-million men were on the field.
Want to bet between the second and third Ages in Civ VII there is a dramatic change in Armies and Combat?
As long as they are determined to include tactical combat in Civ VII (which I don't agree with, but I can live with if I have to) some questions remain:
1. Are Army Commanders named? And can I name them myself? I really want my Roman Commanders Nefarius Purpus, Scipio Apricatus and Miles Gloriosus or my Minor State Commander Atlatl the Hun.
2. I assume without having seen it yet that Naval Commanders for fleets and flotillas will also be included. What about Air Fleets? Assembling and using massed bomber fleets against enemy industry and cities took massive amounts of organization and logistics (note that only two nations, Britain and the USA, managed it in WWII) which would easily be modeled by requiring an Air Force Commander in the Third Age.
3. What kind of tactical sophistication will be included? Civ VI had flanking bonuses, what will Civ VII have? And will it be limited by the Army Commander talents? And will some Commanders from some Civs potentially have more and better? Cue Subotai, Davout and other very effective 'subordinate' Commanders in Mongolian and Imperial French armies; in other words, is there still a place for some kind of Great General/Commander bonuses in the mix?
4. How many Army Commanders can dance on the head of a battlefield? IF two armies combine somehow Who Commands and whose bonuses/talents are used in combat?
ggmoyang
Emperor
Naming military commander sounds like a cool idea, shouldn't be too hard for dev to implement the feature.
Flanking bonus is in Civ 7, and I suspect that the amphibious attack penalty is included as well.
In Civ5 China had great general bonus, and Mongols had Khan UU - so I won't be surprised with a civ with army commander bonus
Flanking bonus is in Civ 7, and I suspect that the amphibious attack penalty is included as well.
In Civ5 China had great general bonus, and Mongols had Khan UU - so I won't be surprised with a civ with army commander bonus
Attachments
Last edited:
Disgustipated
Deity
So I'm guessing the strat will be to take out the AI commander ASAP. Though I'll have a feeling they may park them in cities mostly, making that more difficult. Or they will be surrounded by their own troops. That shouldn't be too difficult for Firaxis to code. Troops without a commander should be easy pickin's I'm guessing.
I just worry that if bopping they AI commanders is the go to strategy, they may shorten the "death" or just have them pop up in a nearby city. We've already seen this game go to great lengths to penalize the human player. But assuming they are eliminated a decent amount of time, I certainly will be gunning for them.
I just worry that if bopping they AI commanders is the go to strategy, they may shorten the "death" or just have them pop up in a nearby city. We've already seen this game go to great lengths to penalize the human player. But assuming they are eliminated a decent amount of time, I certainly will be gunning for them.
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2010
- Messages
- 17,494
I hope Firaxis implements the ability to name your commanders at some point, since we can't promote and name our units anymore
I thought it was said that the commander will respawn where it was recruited from
?I first thought that this commander was named Augustus, but it seems to only indicate that it belongs to Augustus.
There seems to be no other indication of a name.
I think having civ-specific appropriate commander names would be too much work for Firaxis, given all the other myriad of things they have to work on already.
(and not to forget, I am sure they will put in at least 1-2 female commander units, for which it will be nearly impossible to find enough historic references)
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2010
- Messages
- 17,494
No, like a generic random name generator. Push the button, this commander is named "Stonewall Subatai"I thought it was said that the commander will respawn where it was recruited from
View attachment 700684
I first thought that this commander was named Augustus, but it seems to only indicate that it belongs to Augustus.
There seems to be no other indication of a name.
I think having civ-specific appropriate commander names would be too much work for Firaxis, given all the other myriad of things they have to work on already.
(and not to forget, I am sure they will put in at least 1-2 female commander units, for which it will be nearly impossible to find enough historic references)
AriochIV
Georgius Pater Patriae
I didn't see anything about how Army Commanders are actually obtained.
I'm guessing this is not something you'll be allowed to build an unlimited number of, so they may be recruited like Great Generals. If so, this begs the question why they felt they had to change the name.
I'm guessing this is not something you'll be allowed to build an unlimited number of, so they may be recruited like Great Generals. If so, this begs the question why they felt they had to change the name.
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2010
- Messages
- 17,494
Apparently yes, you build them and there is no limit. SpiffingBrit made a bunch of them and got a promotion on each on that gives the units inside full movement when they are deployed. This allowed him to set up a chain and move groups of units completely across the map in one turn.
