Civilization-Specific Victory Conditions

Dr. Strange

Chieftain
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Oct 18, 2008
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After playing through most of the Civilizations in FFH2, I found it odd that certain civs didn't win the game when they accomplished what they set out to do in the fluff. For example, the Illians ascending gets them an uber-powerful demigod and all-but-certain victory, but after it's made, the game just continues on normally. Perhaps instead it should be somewhat similar to the Altar victory, in that simply ascending wins the game. Or, perhaps even a post-Ascension ritual after you've had time to play around with your new unit.

Similarly, I find it odd that after the Ragnarok Counter reaches 100, neither the Sheaim nor the Infernals win. It would add another element to gameplay with those races involved, as players struggle to keep the RC as low as they possibly can. It just seems logical, given that their purported goal is to fuse Hell and Erebus.

Not sure if the idea is actually feasible, I think it would be a lot of fun, if implemented.
 
What's the fun of making Auric Ascended if you don't get to use him. :(
And as Hyborem, I learned from experience the fun just starts when you bring hell throughout the world... But once the AC is at 100, the game's pretty much done I suppose. Just mopping up really.

I'd agree to these victory conditions if Kael could give us the option to turn them off. I like playing the game straight through and "mopping" up. I'm a conquest man and I wouldn't want to win any other way. Recently I got a religious victory and I had to reload the game, switch religions and kill off all my allies with Ashen Veil so I could continue with conquest. :nuke:

Sounds neat though.
 
i think it should be a game option like barbarian world eg "Civ-Specific Victory Conditions Allowed"
 
The "better" approach might be to use the SpaceShip Launch mechanic from BtS and trigger a delayed win when you get Auric Ascended. Then all of the other players have a timer counting down to find and destroy you. Or you could reverse it and make the timer count down to YOU LOSING, meaning you have to rampage fast and hard :)
 
Or both so that neither side just tries to hide or turtle it out. Hehe, that'd be weird -- "The Illians have ## turns before they lose" ... "You have ## turns to destroy Auric before you lose"
 
Well, if you did it as Both then the smaller number is the only one that matters. Unless you have certain conditions grant you more time (The world sacks an Illian City and the timer for Illian Victory goes up 8 turns. The Illians sack a city and the timer for Illian Loss goes up 3 turns. Something along those lines)
 
the Illians ascending gets them an uber-powerful demigod and all-but-certain victory

Last couple of games I've played with the Illians, Auric Ascended is incredibly underpowered. Lost him to a Longbowman and a Privateer, not even after being dogpiled.
 
Thats why he needs 100% healing after combat, Blitz, higher strength (~80 would be good), and maybe a little more movement. Giving him access to more Ice spells and maybe the ability to summon Frost Giants as strong as Wilboman (or nearly as strong, and obviously lacking the hero promotion) could be nice too.

Wilboman's pedia entry said:
The frost giant steamed gently. He always steamed, except when he was in the deepest frozen regions, the lands where the temperature never rose above freezing, even in summer. The only reason he didn't die whenever he joined an expedition away from Letum Frigus was the contingent of mages that followed him everywhere, casting Ice spells to cool him down. As it was, the heat still made the creature's brain boil, killing what little intelligent thought he may have possessed and making him angry, irrational and a lot more dangerous. He was also less reactive and a bit more sluggish than he would have been in his homeland, but that didn't matter much when he had the impetus and crushing force of a glacier. He was a blunt instrument, and like a glacier he may have moved slowly, but he left nothing alive in his wake.

Granted, occasionally the creature would go berserk and kill some of his allies, but there was always a price to be paid for power. Auric knew that better than anyone alive. At least, as far as he knew; a shudder that wasn't his ran down his spine and for a second he had a vision of a weather-worn man with hard, cold eyes, wielding a magnificent sword...

It was an effort and a major investment to have so many mages devoted to the single job of keeping the Frost Giant's cool (which also left them in a dangerous position most of the time), but as far as Auric was concerned, it was worth it. He had yet to see anyone stand up to his monster and win.

Of course, the monster's volatile nature had to be contained as much as possible, otherwise he'd have an... unfortunate... effect on the morale of the other Illian soldiers. Monsters that are as likely to kill you as the enemy are often detrimental to team spirit. Such containment was the purpose of this exercise.

It was, Auric reflected, rather like training a dog. This creature was larger, meaner and more dangerous than any dog Auric had ever had in his youth, but the basic principles remained the same: you could not reason with or convince this Frost Giant, any more than you could a boar hound. The only thing that would work, was conditioning – in effect, the creature had to be taught that the White Hand was dangerous, and that attacking the White Hand was bad behaviour and meant pain. To that end, the mental link between Wilboman and Auric's "guest" was very handy.

At the moment, the creature was lumbering around an arena filled with terrified prisoners dressed in various liveries. From the walls of the arena, archers launched arrows at him, wounding him, driving him into new paroxysms of pure, blind rage. The arrows were no danger to the Frost giant, any more than pin pricks to a human. His viscous blood ran so sluggishly that even the deepest sword stroke could not cause him to bleed out. His entire body was covered in scars, ice-like patches where the slings and arrows of countless foes had left their mark. And so, the only purpose served by the hail of arrows was to drive him to even greater heights of uncaring fury. All part of the exercise, of course.

Whenever he dismembered prisoners wearing the the Crown of the Bannor or that accursed Sunrise of the Amurites, Auric gave him a mental pat on the back. Every time he turned his attentions to a group wearing the White Hand, Auric caused a searing pain to strike the monster's mind. And so, slowly, he would learn – if that is what it could be called. As the last of the "enemies" were dispatched, and the survivors hauled off to go back to the chain gangs, Wilboman was led by one of his handlers, one of the few humans he had learned to obey and trust, back to the ice cold room in which he was stored when he was not needed.

Wilboman, the man from Wilbo, dug out of a glacier, a remnant of the glorious Age of Ice, carrying that same name. It was not terribly inventive, true, but it was the name the soldiers had given the creature, and by now it had stuck. Who knew what the Frost Giant had been called in the simple, brutalistic language of his race? Who cared? He was the last of the Frost Giants, what his kin had called him mattered for nothing in this new age.

As he watched his weapon of mass destruction be led meekly away, a thought stole through Auric's mind: He will not be the last of his race much longer.
 
civ-specific victory options Rhye's and Fall style would be awesome. they would make each civilization play even more unique, which is definitely good. you could also have religion-specific victory conditions of course. and even alignment-specific, civic-specific etc. I guess :D
 
This would be incredibly difficult to balance, but also very interesting- a new victory type that could be lore appropriate. Whoever achieves their lore appropriate style victory first, would, well, win.

Or you could drop the idea of making it an available option for victory and just make it grant a lot of points for civs that achieve their goal. This could be incentive for everyone to attempt to do so- not much fun when someone else is ahead of you in points just because one person already achieve their lore.
 
Last couple of games I've played with the Illians, Auric Ascended is incredibly underpowered. Lost him to a Longbowman and a Privateer, not even after being dogpiled.

I'd prefer if Auric at least started with the hero promotion. It would encourage rushing to slay Auric fast as he keeps growing more powerful, and he'd certainly be less underpowered.
 
The god of stasis is purposefully static. He purposefully has no unitcombat so that he can get no promotions regardless of the xp he gets. The Hero promotion wouldn't really do anything for him except make him more vulnerable to the Netherblade.

I like the idea of letting you start with or build the normal mortal Auric, which would probably be a mage hero. The Ascension ritual would not create Auric Ascended out of nothing, but rather upgrade Auric. Auric could level up and get lots of promotions that would help him as a god, but his death would cost your your traits and make the Ascension (and maybe also their other rituals) unavailable. He could always grow as a mortal but once he becomes a god his sphere makes him forever unchanging.


I also think that letting the Sidar get Laroth to ascend could be really cool. They have unknowingly helped him a lot, but they think they were serving Arawn and not him. What if they had a ritual that let him enter creation as a barbarian Avatar of Death to destroy all of their enemies before he comes for them.
 
The god of stasis is purposefully static. He purposefully has no unitcombat so that he can get no promotions regardless of the xp he gets. The Hero promotion wouldn't really do anything for him except make him more vulnerable to the Netherblade.

I like the idea of letting you start with or build the normal mortal Auric, which would probably be a mage hero. The Ascension ritual would not create Auric Ascended out of nothing, but rather upgrade Auric. Auric could level up and get lots of promotions that would help him as a god, but his death would cost your your traits and make the Ascension (and maybe also their other rituals) unavailable. He could always grow as a mortal but once he becomes a god his sphere makes him forever unchanging.

I wasn't aware he has no unitcombat, my mistake:( (haven't gotten to send him into battle yet).
Fits Auric's story nicely and the Illians' habit of taking high risks (Samhain, The Draw). It really is an interesting choice picking between risking Auric to learn promotions, or simply give up promotions to ensure he becomes Auric Ascended. It also opens up another way of non-Illians preventing his Ascension other than just stomping out every Illian.

I believe there was already a mortal Auric model made during .33.
 
It's a selectable unit in the Worldbuilder.

And yes, generally the Illians are a fairly risky team to play as. That's all part of their appeal though.
 
nice idea about building Auric as a hero and gaining him promotions he will keep in his ascended form ( ascending at the loss of his leader traits ) . that would be interesing and lots of fun :)
 
Yes, it should also make him (potentially) this much stronger, as is only fitting. Maybe make him available from the start (or come with one of the earlier rituals)?
 
Yes, it should also make him (potentially) this much stronger, as is only fitting. Maybe make him available from the start (or come with one of the earlier rituals)?

The Deepening would be a good fit for allowing mortal Auric to be built. His hammer cost would probably be best being about as expensive as an early/middle ritual.
 
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