Civilization, the Board Game

G Julius Caesar

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I think I'm right in remembering that there was a board game upon which Civilization (the computer games) was based, or at least took inspiration from.

Has anyone played that board game and if so what is it like? Obviously I can see such things as cultural borders not being in the board game but what elements still remain in Civ IV?
 
Yes, by Avalon Hill (since bought out by Milton Bradley).

It's actually quite fun. Biggest problem is that resource placement is hidden like the game but random. By that I mean you are supposed to shuffle the counters face down and then spread them out over the world.

Obviously, due to vagaries of chance, you can get one continent with a bunch of happiness resources, while other players get little to none. This has a hugely unbalancing affect on the game.

The computer version, on the other hand, is NOT random. The world generator spreads them out pretty evenly.

Regardless, a simple "house rule" can fix that little problem.

It's been a while but I recall the rest of the gameplay being pretty decent, actually. If you like boardgames it's well worth the time.

It was kind of complex, though. Your spouse / family who aren't necessarily familiar with Civ and/or don't play a lot of boardgames might have trouble picking it up. Treat that situation with kid gloves.

Wodan

ps Uhhhh, is "kid gloves" an expression you use in the UK?
 
Oh boy does that bring back memories. I had it quite a long time ago, not quite in the 70s though.
If I remember correctly, it had Eurasia and North Africa. Cultural zones were hard lined out, so when you expanded, you got a new "square" so to speak... You could trade cards for technology and resources and you could slip in a disaster card into your trade hand--- to screw up your opponent. Don't remember anything about combat.
I remember thinking at the time, that it would be great to mix this game with another game called "Risk" to make a Mega-game.. Computers were not feasibly home-use back then, so it never occurred to me its full potential.
Anyway I would estimate the age group at 12yrs+ (if I remember well)
 
I'm not plugging ebay, but here's what we're talking about.

http://search.ebay.com/search/searc...=compare&copagenum=1&coentrypage=search&fgtp=

This is the original. I have this one (both boxes) and have played it. A good game, but, like I said, you should have some people who are hard-core boardgamers, plus people with a whole Saturday to devote to it (it's a long game). This guy wants $100 US. That's actually a good price. The original sold for $40-50 each box.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Advanced-Civili...oryZ2558QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

And here's a reprint they did a couple of years ago. I honestly don't remember how good it was (only played it once or twice, so maybe that's a testiment against it).
http://cgi.ebay.com/Civilization-Th...oryZ2530QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Wodan
 
Wodan, I think you are talking about two completely different games. The first Civilization, that existed before the computer game came to the desks, has not really much in common with the one that Sid made. There are no hidden ressources or the like on the board. It is the one weasel describes.

The last link you posted is (as far as I know, I only remember having read an article about it) a board game that's based on the computer game, as your previous post suggests.
 
Wodan said:
It's actually quite fun. Biggest problem is that resource placement is hidden like the game but random. By that I mean you are supposed to shuffle the counters face down and then spread them out over the world.

Obviously, due to vagaries of chance, you can get one continent with a bunch of happiness resources, while other players get little to none. This has a hugely unbalancing affect on the game.

You're not describing the original Civ or Advanced Civ games that came before Civilization I, maybe there was some other board game with the name that cam out later and you're talking about it. In the board game Civilization (and the expansion Advanced Civilization), there's no counters for resources, and there's no counters spread over the board, plus there's no such thing has happiness resources, and there's no continents.

The Civ game board covers the mediterranian, including North africa, Southern Europe, and the Middle East. Players start with population counters, the empire grows each turn by getting additional pop in areas where there's already some. Once your pop grows you can put 6 (IIRC) population in a space then use it to make a city, convert 'citizens' to boats to cross water, and can fight (when population from 2 empires is in the same space, they wipe each other out, if you put seven IIRC in a space with you can sack a city). At the end of the turn, every space has a population limit, more than that vanishes, and every city needs 2 population to support it or it starves (IIRC it converts to as many people as the space will hold to help support other cities).

You draw trade cards, there are 9 types getting stronger with each type. You draw one card from each stack up to the number of cities you have, in other words with 3 cities you get a card from each of the 1, 2, and 3 stacks. The higher stacks are worth more, but it's hard to maintain 9 cities all the time, so the 4s and 5s tend to be the most common. Each card is either a commodity or a disaster card. Each number of stack has a base value, and several different types of commodity (furs, salt, gems, etc.), and the commodity cards can be cashed in. The value of commodities goes up exponentially as you have more of each type, so you'll want to trade to make sets. However, most of the disaster cards are tradeable, so you'll have to risk someone palming a disaster off to you. After trading is done, disaster cards take effect, doing damage to various players. The points from cashed in cards are then used to buy technologies, which directly affect your final score and have other effects in game too.
 
Honkoid said:
Wodan, I think you are talking about two completely different games. The first Civilization, that existed before the computer game came to the desks, has not really much in common with the one that Sid made. There are no hidden ressources or the like on the board. It is the one weasel describes.

The last link you posted is (as far as I know, I only remember having read an article about it) a board game that's based on the computer game, as your previous post suggests.
You're right. When I said it was reprinted, I misspoke. It was new gameplay. Anyway, I don't remember the second one (the newer one) all that well.

Wodan
 
There's a boardgame based on Sid's computer game based on the original Avalon Hill boardgame, as well as a computer version of the original boardgame (Advanced Civilization). I've no idea what the Avalon Hill game's like -if you're into those boardgames which take months to learn and days to play it's probably pretty good, but you can't top Diplomacy :P
 
Avalon Hill made the original Civilization Board Game and Advanced Civilization Board Game. Both are great games but are not based on the video game. Avalon Hill was bought by Hasbro years ago and the games are mired in legal disputes. They will never be reprinted.

Eagle Games made the new Civ shown in the last linked E-Bay auction and it is obviously based directly on the video game. Eagle went belly up a few months back and an operation called Funagain Games (internet retailer) bought up the rights to the games and all their inventory. There were no copies of the Civ game in remainder of the Eagle inventory. Not sure Funagain plans to reprint this version or print the Civ 4 board game (that was already in the can when Eagle went under). I suspect they will never be seen again but Funagain probably has the resources to do a reprint or print the Civ 4 game. Not sure if they have the licensing rights though (they bought the rights to the gameplay but not necessarily the rights to the license).
 
I had a concern that Eagle would not make it, even tho they had some good stuff in Attack and such. I sure am glad that I got a copy of the board game now that I am hearing here that ther are no copies remaining in retail ! It is a very beautiful game, but some disagree on the rules and gameplay...gee, that is new.

That brings up my question. I see that there is some kind of big bundle that is going on sale that has all the Civ titles along with a few other items, including a Civ card game. Now, where can I get just the card game ? And, has anyone played it ?

Thanks !
 
I've played both, the second one only once.

Sid Meir's Civilization, the later one, tries very hard to recreate the comp game, and with mixed results. The game play was too complicated for casual gamers, but not quite hard enough for this long time table top gamer. (You want a challenge, go play the Squad Leader expansions.) The new trend toward diceless games (Puerto Rico, for one) also dimmed my enthusiasm. The "spearman beats tank" problem isn't there, but there's less payoff for racing ahead in tech than even in Civ3, where cheap Longbows were the counter to Cavalry.

The original game . . well, that was a long time ago. What I remember most is that the mid game bogged down really hard. Disaster made it really easy to screw the leader, trading cards took longer and longer as the options expanded-- with six players, pulling off trades with three sets of cards went fast, but trying to pull off complex trades later was tedious, especially if the other players weren't good at "seeing through" the backs of cards and reading what others might have. The combat was diceless, which was nice, but the sheer bulk of conquest after the board filled up was pure tedium. Lots of cool ideas, but a game that cried out for computer automation to handle all the busy work.
 
Armorydave said:
Avalon Hill was bought by Hasbro years ago and the games are mired in legal disputes.

Not any more they aren't. I thought Hasbro bought all the rights from all sides in the dispute when they bought both Avalon Hill and Microprose (unless there were otherws involved in the suit).
 
Thanks for all the replies. Wasn't expecting there to be so much said. Will probably stick to the comp. game though I do like a good board gaming session!

Wodan said:
ps Uhhhh, is "kid gloves" an expression you use in the UK?

Yeah, we do have kid gloves in the UK, but we call them mittens :groucho: :groucho:
 
G Julius Caesar said:
Yeah, we do have kid gloves in the UK, but we call them mittens :groucho: :groucho:
Well, that didn't really answer my question. Anyway, to "handle with kid gloves" means to treat a situation very very carefully, with regard for the sensitivities of everyone involved. "Kid gloves" refers to ladies' gloves made from young goats (which are called kids), which are delicate as well as softer than normal gloves. So, this wasn't referring to hand-wear for children. :)

Anyway I did in fact mix up these two games. I have both box sets of the original (Advanced Civ) and a friend had the newer one (the one I was complaining about).

Wodan
 
Wodan said:
Well, that didn't really answer my question. Anyway, to "handle with kid gloves" means to treat a situation very very carefully, with regard for the sensitivities of everyone involved. "Kid gloves" refers to ladies' gloves made from young goats (which are called kids), which are delicate as well as softer than normal gloves. So, this wasn't referring to hand-wear for children. :)

Anyway I did in fact mix up these two games. I have both box sets of the original (Advanced Civ) and a friend had the newer one (the one I was complaining about).

Wodan

Yes, Wodan, I knew what you meant. It was meant to be a joke. Apologies if you didn't see it that way. ;)

Thanks for the information you and eveyone else provided though. I've got a birthday coming up and had thought about this as an idea, but as I said earlier, I'll probably just stick to the computer version!
 
warpstorm said:
Not any more they aren't. I thought Hasbro bought all the rights from all sides in the dispute when they bought both Avalon Hill and Microprose (unless there were otherws involved in the suit).

I think problems still exist between Hasbro and the original board game designer.
 
Avalon Hill's Civilization
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/game/71
and Advanced Civilization
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/game/177
are classics and very good games - though with lots of players they can take as long as computer Civ. :D They run from dawn of time to around 0AD I believe. You can play as any of the Mediterranean/Middle East civs of the period (and various people have made expansions to go far to the east):
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/game/16109
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/game/2058
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/game/11568

Crete
Illyria
Italia (Iberia on the western expansion)
Thrace
Assyria
Asia (badly named and poorly positioned)
Babylon
Egypt
Africa (Carthage)

The game was not about combat - basically there is a population limit to each space, and if there are multinational tokens there that go over the limit, the smallest group loses a counter, until you get under the limit. Metalworking makes you remove last. You could sack cities - which advanced Civ made more lucrative and encouraged, but overall its a nice balance of building/trading/dealing with disasters/with a little combat.

Eagle's Civilization: The Boardgame is a poor cousin to both the computer game and boardgame.
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/game/3633

I have all of them. Recommend the former highly, NOT the latter.
 
Avalon Hill's Civilization was designed by Francis Tresham and first made by his company, Hartland Trefoil. It's a brilliant design, like most of Tresham's designs contains no luck elements, no dice or randomisation. His games also use elegant, simple systems to model far more complex processes. (Notice for example, as JMaltman points out, the "combat" system - if you have metalworking you remove your piece last - it's that simple!) - I've played it with 8 year olds and 48 year olds and all are equally absorbed by it!

Sid Meier certainly sites this game as the inspiration for Sid Meier's Civilization. Francis Tresham also designed some railway games, 1829 (UK rails) 1830 (US) 1853 (India) and more. 1830 was made for Avalon Hill. I'm sure Sid cites that one as the inspiration for another of his own masterpieces, Railroad Tycoon and both games use the ideas of track laying plus stock market trading/manipulation. I don't know if they've ever worked together, or even met but the Meier/Tresham combination is awesome!

I must say, on the subject of CIV, the transition, boardgame to computer game, and back to boardgame (the Eagle games one), must be quite unique in the industry!
 
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