Civs & Ideologies

[MaximusK]

Is there anyway to convince/influence a civilization to pick your ideology initially? Or can you only force them to switch through your influence?

BTW, I'm also finding Emperor ALOT more difficult w/ the patch.

Peace.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

The civs Do tend to
1. go with the ideology of their allies/friends
2. go with the ideology that will cause them the least unhappiness from influence.


So if you are a cultural powerhouse and you choose freedom that increases the chance that other civs will pick freedom

(they do consider other things like free tenets, and what would actually help them the most with their victory)

 

[GoStu]

I think the free tenets influence them a lot. I often see the next couple civs after me take the opposing ones for the free social policies. The remainder seem to go with who's strongest culturally.

You can't really "force" a change per se, but when unhappiness reaches -20 cities start to revolt and join the civ with the most influence over them. This is about the time where the ai will change its ideology.

 

[EriktheRead]

Had one game where I had a Dutch neighbor. We were peaceful for like 300 turns (yes yes huge map dom vic etc, sue me). What had a dof for like half of that, and a couple defense declarations, multiple trade routes, etc. I was first to industrial, grabbed autocracy. He grabbed order, and dow'ed me along with four other players who also had order not long after. Ymmv.

 

[katfish]

The civs Do tend to
1. go with the ideology of their allies/friends

This. I once had a game when i already took freedom, and my friend India PROPOSED Freedom world ideology while still in Renaissance.

 

[Calouste]

I think the free tenets influence them a lot. I often see the next couple civs after me take the opposing ones for the free social policies. The remainder seem to go with who's strongest culturally.

You can't really "force" a change per se, but when unhappiness reaches -20 cities start to revolt and join the civ with the most influence over them. This is about the time where the ai will change its ideology.

That's what the free tenets are for, to make sure that the leading civs pick different ideologies and you get the late game ideological clash. That was an explicit decision by the designers.

 

[sendos]

2. go with the ideology that will cause them the least unhappiness from influence.

This. If you are a cultural powerhouse and you choose your ideology first, just about everyone will choose that ideology. In my current German game, I've chosen autocracy. Although the game is currently between industrial and modern era, only 1 civ has chosen order so far, and now they have -12 .

 

[njmfff]

Well, I recently played Spain game with 20 civs on a huge map. Rome, Zulus and me decided to be autocrats, while few civs picked Freedom and rest of them Order (more then 10)... even if my tourism and culture was good, I still got huge pressure, mostly from Order civs. In the end I had to switch to Order, becasue my cities started to flip.

I can never play autocrat, it's not fair.

 

[NukeAJS]

As someone mentioned before, world ideology will influence the later civs that industrialize. On the other hand, it will really piss off the other ideologies BUT it does seem to make them switch over sooner if they've a lot of pressure.

 

[njmfff]

If you want to propose WI to the WC, it's best to do it before there aren't many civs with ideology.

 

[EK834]

BUT it does seem to make them switch over sooner if they've a lot of pressure.

That's because it adds two points of pressure in favor of the World Ideology.

I've noticed something about this that I'm not sure is a feature or a bug or something I don't get about the mechanics

When a civ is only influenced by WI and no other civ, they peak at "civil resistance" no matter how much unhappiness they have. I had Casimir and Bismarck stand at numbers like -29/-59 for a hundred turns. Both went into Revolution and switched only once a civ exerted pressure over them.

I once had a game when i already took freedom, and my friend India PROPOSED Freedom world ideology while still in Renaissance.

That seems to be motivated as much (perhaps more) by hatred of another civ that's picked an ideology as by friendship. In one game I picked Freedom and Russia, hated all over the board, picked Autocracy. England went and proposed Freedom as WI. It passed, yet a few turns after England still my BFF, picked Order as its ideology.... One of those "weird things"/glitches happening with the WC (another: in two games now Bismarck proposes to Embargo CS before he has Banking - destroying the power of his upcoming UB, then gets Banking and tries to have the measure repealed... It makes sense for immersion he doesn't know he's gonna create Hanses before discovering the tech, but in terms of game play this just ruins an AI civ that with the Hanse can be competitive) . I guess the AI isn't programmed to calculate and take into account its future choice of ideology if it has none when the WI resolution becomes available (the choice seems motivated in this case by picking the available resolution that will hurt/anger its worst enemy the most, and to select if it would be Freedom or Order the AI picked the one that would not anger its friend.. or picked randomly any but Autocracy).

 

[KrikkitTwo]

That's because it adds two points of pressure in favor of the World Ideology.

I've noticed something about this that I'm not sure is a feature or a bug or something I don't get about the mechanics

When a civ is only influenced by WI and no other civ, they peak at "civil resistance" no matter how much unhappiness they have. I had Casimir and Bismarck stand at numbers like -29/-59 for a hundred turns. Both went into Revolution and switched only once a civ exerted pressure over them.



That seems to be motivated as much (perhaps more) by hatred of another civ that's picked an ideology as by friendship. In one game I picked Freedom and Russia, hated all over the board, picked Autocracy. England went and proposed Freedom as WI. It passed, yet a few turns after England still my BFF, picked Order as its ideology.... One of those "weird things"/glitches happening with the WC (another: in two games now Bismarck proposes to Embargo CS before he has Banking - destroying the power of his upcoming UB, then gets Banking and tries to have the measure repealed... It makes sense for immersion he doesn't know he's gonna create Hanses before discovering the tech, but in terms of game play this just ruins an AI civ that with the Hanse can be competitive) . I guess the AI isn't programmed to calculate and take into account its future choice of ideology if it has none when the WI resolution becomes available (the choice seems motivated in this case by picking the available resolution that will hurt/anger its worst enemy the most, and to select if it would be Freedom or Order the AI picked the one that would not anger its friend.. or picked randomly any but Autocracy).

Civil Resistance/Revolutionary wave, etc.
are CAUSED BY pressure (from WI, other civs tourism) not unhappiness

Civil Resistance/Revolutionary wave, etc.
CAUSE unhappiness


Unhappiness leads to barbs, penalties and city flipping

 

[EK834]

Civil Resistance/Revolutionary wave, etc.
are CAUSED BY pressure (from WI, other civs tourism) not unhappiness

Civil Resistance/Revolutionary wave, etc.
CAUSE unhappiness


Unhappiness leads to barbs, penalties and city flipping

You mistook me.

I meant that the civ had only 2 pressures points from WI and none exerted by Civs' influence over it.

It was a very wide civ. The 2 pressure points from WI caused -29 in Public Opinion, and -59 unhappiness overall.

The rollover says that at -20 or below the civ should start losing cities etc. It didn't. It stayed in civil resistance (or dissidents, I can't recall) even with those numbers, for over a hundred turns, because the two pressure points weren't enough to send it in RW.

Revolutionary wave only happened once a civ added a third point of pressure. Two points of pressure from WI on its own isn't enough to push a civ into Revolution no matter the unhappiness it causes, even if the rollover in the Culture Overview panel mentions only the threshold# in unhappiness while it should also say "and if public opinion status is Revolutionary Wave".

 

[KrikkitTwo]

You mistook me.

I meant that the civ had only 2 pressures points from WI and none exerted by Civs' influence over it.

It was a very wide civ. The 2 pressure points from WI caused -29 in Public Opinion, and -59 unhappiness overall.

The rollover says that at -20 or below the civ should start losing cities etc. It didn't. It stayed in civil resistance (or dissidents, I can't recall) even with those numbers, for over a hundred turns, because the two pressure points weren't enough to send it in RW.

Revolutionary wave only happened once a civ added a third point of pressure. Two points of pressure from WI on its own isn't enough to push a civ into Revolution no matter the unhappiness it causes, even if the rollover in the Culture Overview panel mentions only the threshold# in unhappiness while it should also say "and if public opinion status is Revolutionary Wave".

It might not have a civ of the right ideology for its cities to revolt to. That might be a requirement.. not sure though.