Clara Schumann is not a Great Artist of the Atomic Era

[Balerune]

See (tho I hate wikipedia) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clara_Schumann and note the date. This is the atomic era?? 1819-1896????

Even look at Robert Schumann https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Schumann

Now who is the more prolific and greater composer? Again the 1800's is the Atomic Era???


I should think 20th Century composers like Igor Stravinsky http://www.notablebiographies.com/St-Tr/Stravinsky-Igor.html would be more representative and more interesting (Just google Rite of Spring and what happened there.)

Aside from this PC attempt the music by Christopher Tin and the rest of the in game music is really excellent.
Aces on that score.

 

[montalaar]

many choices are doomed by political corectness. just check admirals or generals. they put people on the list just not be called not diverse enough. many great person choces are just pathetic. Marina Raskova or Ahmad Shah Massoud are pesenting humanity as generals of modern or informatic era. just... great.

 

[Krajzen]

many choices are doomed by political corectness. just check admirals or generals. they put people on the list just not be called not diverse enough. many great person choces are just pathetic. Marina Raskova or Ahmad Shah Massoud are pesenting humanity as generals of modern or informatic era. just... great.

"I don't know those people and I am greatly triggered by the fact they are sometimes women and non-white, and that especially they are not always white Anglophone men, so that's political correctness"

Yeah, sure, whatever. I adore diversity and am tired to death by games that represent history as "few Western men did everything that was ever important". I am very happy there are a lot of diverse characters among civ6 great people and I'd actually increase their amount so the number of Westerners of each cathegory was around half of less than half of them.

Ahmad Shah Massoud September 2, 1953 – September 9, 2001) was an Afghan political and military leader. He was a powerful military commander during the resistance against the Soviet occupation between 1979 and 1989 and in the following years of civil war, during which time he became known as the Lion of Panjshir.
(...)
The Wall Street Journa referred to Massoud as "The Afghan Who Won the Cold War referring to the global significance of the Soviet defeat in Afghanistan for the subsequent collapse of the Eastern Bloc. Massoud was posthumously named "National Hero" by the order of President Hamid Karzai after the Taliban were ousted from power. The date of Massoud’s death, September 9, is observed as a national holiday known as "Massoud Day".

^As you can see, he is one of the best global choices for the general in the atomic era.

As for the Marina Raskova, yeah she is far weirder choice as she was quite secondary plane pilot. In this case Firaxis could resist seeking woman general from atomic era as in this particular time there were simply no females among major military positions in the world.

 

[montalaar]

Samori Toure, John Monash or Marina Raskova are 3 most notable(just notable) military leaders of human kind in modern era?
and Ahmad Shah Massoud is one of two most notable military leaders of infromation era, not atomic. i can not justify this choice by any standarts, same as Marina Raskova.
if they were not able find suitable persons, they could just take military leaders and admirals from ww1/ww2. and not... Samori Toure.

 

[Kwami]

Who said anything about "most notable"? The term is "Great Person".

I like to see some new faces instead of the same old guys that we've had before. Ahmad Shah Massoud is a fantastic choice! Clara Shumann would also be a great choice, if they put her in the correct era.

 

[Guandao]

I think some of the eras don't match the people, because for the music, art, and writing of the 20th and 21st centuries, they are copyrighted
Hence no Ernest Hemingway, Pablo Picasso, Elvis Presley etc
So they have limited choices for Modern, Atomic, Information great people, especially for the Great Writers, Musicians and Artists
so they moved some of them to the more later eras, also gave them more great works to create

I'm missing a lot of the Great Writers, Musicians, Artists from BNW...it seemed to be a more diverse group, especially the Music

 

[Buccaneer]

Great Persons have names?!?

 

[Mr.WorldWide]

Firaxis have always tried to shake things up a bit between games and introduce new faces to the series. While some recycling is going to take place I'm not at all against giving exposure to some less known people who made a difference in their own right. That said, a couple of choices do apppear to be pandering.

 

[Balerune]

If they wanted a non-white great musician of the "Atomic Era" to fit their PC mold then they could have (among many others) picked Fats Waller http://www.biography.com/people/fats-waller-9522591 whose only real problem was that he loved performing and didn't write down most of the improvisations that he made. Certainly every one has heard "Ain't Misbehavin?"

This one particular choice by Firaxis borders on the

only here the religious are (well I can't continue the analogy or I'll get banned from the forum......sorry.)

 

[Kwami]

I'm not entirely sure why we keep equating "finding great people who are not white and not men to be in the game alongside the white men who were great" with "PC". Can we stop that nonsense? There's nothing "PC" about it. Firaxis is simply choosing to recognize the greatness of some people that haven't appeared in previous games. That's a good thing!

 

[Luxerne]

Personally, I think Clara Schumann is a great choice for a Great Person even if she wasn't a prolific composer, since she had her merit as one of the leading concert pianists of the Romantic era. Though I agree she should be listed as a Modern Great Person like the other Romantic composers in-game (Chopin, Liszt, and Tchaikovsky are Modern Era in-game IIRC). Dvorak should also be Modern, not Atomic, by the way.

However, I must say that I would have never really considered taking the time to listen to her works if it weren't for having seen her on the list of Great People in-game. I had already known of her as a pianist and Robert Schumann's wife, but not as a composer in her own right until Civ 6. I took the time to browse some of her other compositions and I honestly really like her work too now, and downloaded some of her works to my phone. So I appreciate Civ 6 for exposing me to more music.

Nocturne Op.6 No.2
Piano Sonata in G minor
Impromptu in E Major

(Oh and, presumably, I guess the reason GWAM from the 19th and early 20th centuries are listed as Atomic/Information Era is due to more recent works still being under copyright)

 

[AlpsStranger]

Me and my white penis are still intact after this withering barrage of *shudder* diversity. I think we'll live!

The game has anti-big-government quotes from Ronald Reagan, metric tons of white dudes doing important things, and the Kongo are seriously set up as Friendly Token Black Villagers You Can Convert To Your Religion.

If this game is trying to be PC it's actually failing pretty hard at it.

 

[j51]

If they're having copyright issues with actually finding artists/writers/musicians from the atomic/information eras, they should untie those categories of great people from the era system. Let them appear randomly. It won't unbalance the game like unmooring the great scientists/generals/etc. would.

 

[Kwami]

If they're having copyright issues with actually finding artists/writers/musicians from the atomic/information eras, they should untie those categories of great people from the era system. Let them appear randomly. It won't unbalance the game like unmooring the great scientists/generals/etc. would.

Or, they could stop being cheap and just pay for the rights to use small samples of some modern great works. When they introduced samples in an expansion, I was willing to go with the idea that their budget was smaller and that paying to use copyright works just wasn't an option. This time, we're talking about a full-price, big-budget, AAA game. They're just being cheap.

 

[Balerune]

Personally, I think Clara Schumann is a great choice for a Great Person even if she wasn't a prolific composer, since she had her merit as one of the leading concert pianists of the Romantic era. Though I agree she should be listed as a Modern Great Person like the other Romantic composers in-game (Chopin, Liszt, and Tchaikovsky are Modern Era in-game IIRC). Dvorak should also be Modern, not Atomic, by the way.

However, I must say that I would have never really considered taking the time to listen to her works if it weren't for having seen her on the list of Great People in-game. I had already known of her as a pianist and Robert Schumann's wife, but not as a composer in her own right until Civ 6. I took the time to browse some of her other compositions and I honestly really like her work too now, and downloaded some of her works to my phone. So I appreciate Civ 6 for exposing me to more music.

Nocturne Op.6 No.2
Piano Sonata in G minor
Impromptu in E Major

(Oh and, presumably, I guess the reason GWAM from the 19th and early 20th centuries are listed as Atomic/Information Era is due to more recent works still being under copyright)

Robert Schumann ruined his piano career thru the use of an invention designed to strengthen his 4th and 5th fingers (which are the weakest on the hand and the most interdependent.) Consequently his wife Clara became the champion of his works (as well as her own) due to him having to cut short his piano career. The Schumann (Robert) Piano Concerto was revolutionary at the time as it began with solo piano in opposition to the usual orchestral introduction.

Still both are not Atomic Era imho.

 

[Balerune]

If they're having copyright issues with actually finding artists/writers/musicians from the atomic/information eras, they should untie those categories of great people from the era system. Let them appear randomly. It won't unbalance the game like unmooring the great scientists/generals/etc. would.

There is a lot of stuff I see on youtube so I can't see that that would be a problem? Could of course be very wrong.

 

[Balerune]

I'm not entirely sure why we keep equating "finding great people who are not white and not men to be in the game alongside the white men who were great" with "PC". Can we stop that nonsense? There's nothing "PC" about it. Firaxis is simply choosing to recognize the greatness of some people that haven't appeared in previous games. That's a good thing!

Depends upon motive and therefore perception. Hasn't it been said that "Perception is reality?" imho

 

[Kwami]

Depends upon motive and therefore perception. Hasn't it been said that "Perception is reality?" imho

You're assuming a motive without knowing any facts. What you perceive is not what I perceive. Neither of us knows the reality.

 

[Becephalus]

Meh, while it is nice they are trying to add some new and different people, diversity for the sake of diversity gets pretty grating when it is so pervasive everywhere. It is so obvious too.

I think of this one program I love where the topics are like: Ghengis Khan, (relatively speaking) obscure 12th century female who wrote a journal, Jonas Salk, (relatively speaking) obscure female poet from RotW country, Calvin

It is just plainly obvious they are forcing a equity in material that is not actually backed up by the materials and facts and it is grating. It gets even more silly because then in classic historian fashion they always have to bend over backwards telling you why X or Y or Z is important, and while their grandiose pronouncements are only somewhat overblown in the case of say Ghengis Khan, they are just outright absurd and laughable when talking about some woman who wasn't even read in her own time and was discovered dint he 1800s and impacted a few famous writers, maybe, or whatever.

Anyway, it is cool to get more diversity if that is an attempt ot better reflect reality. But boo on diversity for diversity's sake, which is in fact its own little form of bigotry.

 

[cakes]

and there's also industrial era musketmen and electronics factories. it doesn't matter really since it's supposed to be an approximation, not an accurate retelling of history