Clash of War(Peace)mongers on Deity - BTS

[ABigCivFan]

I want to set up another open game under the following theme:

BTS3.13/Deity/Pangaea/Standard Size/Normal Speed

Put 3 Peacemonger AIs (Mensa, Darius, HC and etc.)
and 3 Warmonger AIs (Monty,GK,Catherine and etc.)
+ Human on a tight map

The idea is that the human player has to compete with bloodthurst warmongers in war as well as keeping up with the cottage spamming scienceMongers. As usual I will play and write my progress report, and compare results with others.

Let me know what you think and which AIs deserve a spot in this epic clash.

And who should we take.

We will need a lot of economic bonus under these settings, so I am thinking taking a leader with Organized+Industrous traits (FDR)?

 

[madscientist]

Cool idea.

One question is, are you warring normally with all, or just dealing with the jerks while maintaining peace with the good guys?

The biggest is that most of the peaceful people are pushovers against the agressive AIs, particularly the Musa and Liz,s. So you could either tone down to nuts are get stronger peacenicks. My choice would be the stronge peacenicks.

Peaceful techers who can defend themselves:
HC
Hannibal (Pangea cuts into him a bit)
Willem
You may want to toss a Philosphical leader to makes thimngs interesting. Peter or Fred I think as Gandhi is usually the preferred AI whipping post. Asoka is another possibilty as he can war much better than Gandhi.

If I had to choose, I would say Willem, HC, Asoka.

As far as the war maniacs

Shaka without a doubt
Julius
napolean

Sorry, but the usualt cast of idiots just don't fit in right for this.

The wild card would be Mehmed who always techs pretty well while getting alot of discounted buildings.

I like FDR alot for this. ORG gives you the option of a managable large empire while Ind gives the option of peacefully building if you are lucky to get some of the wimps as a bumper between you and the nuts. You start with fishing/agriculture so early expansion is easier.

 

[Rusten]

Sounds like quite a challenge. Possibly even harder than only warmongering AIs. As for the "peaceful" leaders, the first that comes to mind is the Khmer leader. He's really annoying and usually plays very well on Pangea maps. The creative and expansive trait gives him an awful lot of land early on. He's always been one of the top AIs in my Immortal Pangea games.

Organized+Industrious would be Roosevelt, but I don't feel comfortable playing with America. Would prefer a different civilization, playing America just feels wrong to me, especially in the BC years. Having such a late (and almost useless?) UU is kinda boring as well. It wouldn't keep me from joining in of course, but it's not my standard cup of tea, don't know whether other people feel the same way.

 

[madscientist]

The khmer dude is not exactly a peaceful techer. He builds alot of military and attacks often becoing tech deficient. As a bully fine, but not one of the peaceful guys.

 

[WTBCzero]

Hannibal should be in the game. Can't decide if he's peaceful or warlike though, he techs well and often attacks other civs...

 

[Jet]

Take Hannibal yourself. Or another leader with one war trait and one peace trait.

 

[madscientist]

I think ABC should impress us all and play as Charlemange!!! Protective and Imperialistic with poor starting techs.

 

[ABigCivFan]

HC seems to be good peacemonger choice giving his ability to tech well and snatching important wonders + founding early religion. He can defend well.

I like Catherine as a warmonger, she has been the toughest since the first CIV4 game I ever played. Imp/Cre always always give here a huge chunk of land, she builds empire as well as anyone and can fight as well as Nappy. Still remember in our first Clash game, she held her ground against a combined force of 4 warmongers (JC, Nappy, Ragnar and Alex)! But I did give her Mil Trad and horse to help her out.

As mentioned, Hannibal can be very dangerous.

Kehmer guy might be good although i do not much experience with these new guys.

As for human, Organized+Philo (Fred) could be another candidate. Yes Rustan, early bonus (UU,UB,traits) are much much better than later bonus on Deity.

 

[Rusten]

The khmer dude is not exactly a peaceful techer. He builds alot of military and attacks often becoing tech deficient. As a bully fine, but not one of the peaceful guys.

You're probably right, he's not as peaceful when I come to think of it, but he is definitely not backwards in tech. He's leading in almost all areas in my games (Pangea). He's not a warmonger nor very peaceful, more like the in-between. At any rate, I'd be happy to see him put into the game. He is very dangerous and poses a serious threat, and that's what this is about isn't it, a challenge with varied AI personalities.

 

[madscientist]

Regarding the 16 new BTS leaders:

Boudica: The classic Amazon warrior who techs poorly. Her traits speak for themselves!

Sitting Bull: Builds ALOT of military, demands tribute, goes to war early, and techs terribly.

Darius: As you would expect, a tech monster however as I said he can be vunerable as musa and Liz. Still best techer of the BTS crew.

DeGaulle.: Sort of stupid and unpredictable. Not impressed.

Lincoln: Damn powerful to play as (even better than my favored Washington) but seams week as the AI.

Jaoa: Expands like Catherine but does not war like her. A backstabber but would be real bad on a Pangea map.

Willem: Second best techer in BTS addons. Has the best UB in the game. His UU is inefficient. Will initiate wars and does well but also noted to sit back and get trashed.

Suliman: Avery interesing and unpredictable leader. Very balanced in eprsonality and abilities. Usually one of the score leaders. War decently.

Zara: Supreme at pressing your borders early. Tech well and wars well. Typically large empires and a danger to winning multiple ways. The UU is very dangerour.

Khmer dude: Very similar to MOnty although a little more predictable. The most agressive war-monger of the new class.

Charlemange: A zealot out of the Isabella mode. Can be a tough nut to crack very late but fairly easy to take out early, as far as protective leaders go.

Justinian: A more peaceful zealot, but a zealot nonetheless. If he get a decent start he can be dangerous but more often a non-issue.

Pacal: Third best techer after Darius and Willem. Techs well, expands well, wars poorly but will get a fair number of wonders.

Perciles: Another good techer and usually very peaceful. One of the better tech traders of the new group. Often beaten up by his closest waromnoger neighbor.

Hammarabi: Dangerous and efficient war monger, decent techer. However, I have found he is most peaceful of the agressive trait leaders.

Gilgamesh: Can be hard to dislodge early with teh creative/protective traits and the UU, but generally not that difficult.

I think that wraps it up,

The best techers in the new BTS crew are in order

Darius
Willem
Pacal

Of which Willem best defends himself

On the agressor side in order

Khmer
Boudica

And neither techs better than Monty.

 

[phurph]

The idea is that the human player has to compete with bloodthurst warmongers in war as well as keeping up with the cottage spamming scienceMongers.

Consider using a vanilla-style continents map for this one. Put techfiends on one continent, player and warmongers on the other!

 

[Zanttu]

Hammarabi: Dangerous and efficient war monger, decent techer. However, I have found he is most peaceful of the agressive trait leaders.

The best techers in the new BTS crew are in order

Darius
Willem
Pacal

Strange, in my games Hammu techs really well. Often if I start on different continent than him, once we meet each other he has the top score and has a tech lead (at least against other AI's). Sure, he doesn't tech like Mansa but still he's very impressive AI imho. I would choose him instead of Pacal (sure Pacal techs pretty good but in other regards he's pretty dumb (even for an AI)).

 

[Rusten]

Seems your experience with the Khmer is very different from mine, madscientist. Guess that's another plus for him, being unpredictable.
Maybe it's just me not paying enough attention to him though. Didn't face him more than I suppose 5-6 times. 4 of which were on Pangea, where I think he shines in the hands of the AI.

 

[madscientist]

Strange, in my games Hammu techs really well. Often if I start on different continent than him, once we meet each other he has the top score and has a tech lead (at least against other AI's). Sure, he doesn't tech like Mansa but still he's very impressive AI imho. I would choose him instead of Pacal (sure Pacal techs pretty good but in other regards he's pretty dumb (even for an AI)).

I will agree, Hammarabi techs fairly well. A close call between Pacal and Hammarabi, I won't argue. But darius and Willem are far ahead of pacal and Hammarabi.

 

[Unconquered Sun]

Out of the BtS lot, I pick Khmer dude. IME he's a fine techer, defends well, and is good in culture pressure.

Also voting for Hannibal and Catherine.

 

[ABigCivFan]

@Mad, thanks for the quick run-down of the new leaders,

So here is where we stand:

TechClub members:
HC
Williem
Hannibal/Mensa

WarClub:
Catherine
Khemer guy
Shaka/Napolean/Boudica (shes has done decent in my last 2 games)

Wildcard:
Hammurabi

How about we take Darius, lets find some horse!

 

[madscientist]

Go Boudica then as she likely gets an early religion which will put her against teh next AI to get a relgion. SHe likes to shake things up early, her favorite civic is US so she's tough to appease early.

Regarding darius, I think his traits are overpowering for an human. Nothing wrong with that in a Diety game (I can barely win at Emperor).

As far as human I do have a preference for Fred as I would love to see Panzers in a game kick some armored units butts. I am pretty sure at least one of these AIs are going to have tansksthe same time you do. And I still FDR because HC is gonna wonderspam everything.

Look foreward to it!!!!

 

[Rusten]

Darius sounds sweet, didn't use him yet myself. He's definitely got my vote. Catherine is a must and Hannibal gets my vote over MM.

 

[Zanttu]

@Mad, thanks for the quick run-down of the new leaders,

So here is where we stand:

TechClub members:
HC
Williem
Hannibal/Mensa

WarClub:
Catherine
Khemer guy
Shaka/Napolean/Boudica (shes has done decent in my last 2 games)

Wildcard:
Hammurabi

How about we take Darius, lets find some horse!

Mansa MUSA is a MUST. You can't call it techclub, if it doesn't include Mansa. And same goes for Shaka in Warclub. Warclub is not a warclub without the best warmonger in the game (Shaka knows the economy side of the game also, that's why he's the best).

 

[madscientist]

Mansa MUSA is a MUST. You can't call it techclub, if it doesn't include Mansa. And same goes for Shaka in Warclub. Warclub is not a warclub without the best warmonger in the game (Shaka knows the economy side of the game also, that's why he's the best).

Yeah, but he get's dogpiled all the time and vassaled early in the game if not destroyed.